RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage?

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RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/30/2016 5:19:49 PM

ExquisiteStings

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And another opinion of mine is that how is any of this the wife's fault when she reluctantly acquiesced to his wishes and just happened to like it after a while and now he's resenting the fact that she likes it? When she was initially emotionally compelled by him prompting her to do it because his happiness was very important to her? I wonder if he secretly wanted her to always be resentful and appearing unhappy. He more or less forced her hand in this one and I don't think he has much of a right to complain at this point. If they cannot communicate openly and honestly about this particular snafu on the guy's part, then methinks this relationship is doomed.

And how in the world are they gonna explain this to the kids who pick up on moods more than anyone is aware? Seriously, I hope they don't labor under the delusion that the children are totally oblivious to the currently unhappy dynamics between their parental units.

(in reply to ExquisiteStings)

Post #: 21

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/30/2016 6:53:16 PM

cloudboy

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When couples focus on their weaknesses, it is very destabilizing. I went to one marriage counseling session about 12 years ago, and it stirred up so much shit I never went back. I'm now in an open marriage -- and the strong connection between my wife and I remains in place, but we have secondary partners for needs we can't meet in each other. There were some rocky patches -- but we've remained stable.

If you are unable to concentrate and live day-to-day in the strengths of your relationship -- and live instead in the shortcomings - frustrations -- you are in a bad spot.

Sometimes its best contain weaknesses and work around them. Hell to me is trying to fix ingrained differences, concentrating on problems, and feeling like you don't really fit together with another person.

Note: I think marriage counselors can make matters worse.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/30/2016 6:54:18 PM >

(in reply to theDominantGent)

Post #: 22

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/30/2016 7:07:21 PM

princessmika

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There's been some great perspectives in this thread.

I can only put myself in your wife's shoes with the limited knowledge that I have from this thread and here is what I come up with. My perspective may be a little more unique because I do date and interact with alphas even though I deal with many subs as a Princess on the dominant side of things.

From my perspective, all resentments from either person aside, I think the problem lies in that you are not enjoying sex * with her * (your wife). Certainly, if I were in this situation, that is what I would be bothered with, as a woman. Trying new things that you want to do sexually is all dandy and good but, for me, it would always bother me because it would feel like your sexual desires are more important than me. I would feel choked and whatever too, if I felt like I was doing something only to please you (and it probably won't because you'd know that I wasn't really enjoying it because I'm not sure what is going on or what the hell I'm doing and was only doing it for you, who I so desperately want to please and... yeah - a bad pattern). Asking what I want to do sexually would prove to be trouble-some because I wouldn't know what to say. I'd probably say something like... sex with you? Haha. Sex would then start to become about the task or the kink or the position or what have you instead of it feeling more "natural" and more of an expression of our love together (which I myself want and so do many other more vanilla styled females). For many women, sex is very much in the mind and more of a reflection or expression of how good the relationship is going. If I feel loved, I feel very free and sexual. When I don't, I feel very closed off and sex becomes more procedural. Men can usually pick up on whether or not a girl is *really* into it and it usually makes sex worse for both people and, yeah - again, a bad pattern. Therefore, for me, I wouldn't enjoy sex at all under these circumstances that you're describing... which I'd guess is at least partially what is happening here.

It may sound silly but ... what do you love more or which is more important to you? Your wife or your sexual desires? I think if the answer is your wife, both of you could really make some progress sexually (and of course in your relationship - which, for many women, is one and the same). You should also tell your wife this... in as much detail as you can, haha. You might be surprised in how this may change her tone over all.

And finally, no relationship is perfect. Relationships are work. I commend you for doing your best to navigate through everything to make it work :) That's what marriage is to me, too.

Best of luck :)

< Message edited by princessmika -- 1/30/2016 7:08:41 PM >

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RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/30/2016 8:16:27 PM

catize

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To my way of thinking, if you are sincere when you state you are an honorable man, you have two honorable choices. Before you choose, you need to decide what is most important to you: your marriage or sex the way you want it.

If you decide your marriage is what you want, then you must let go of your fantasies and work on your happiness within the confines of your wife’s limits. She was willing to try but it just doesn't do it for her. Perhaps it is your turn to try to be happy with a vanilla marriage. After all, you do say that she is perfect in every way.

If you decide the sex with kink is what you must have, then your honorable choice is to thank her for her efforts and tell her that you are not compatible, then file for divorce.

None of the above is easy to do; nor do these choices come with a guarantee of happiness for you. Many kinky folk have attempted to sublimate their desires, only to reach a stage years later when they regret that choice. Others have divorced their spouse and come to a point where they regret losing their partner.

I do not envy the position you find yourself. I wish you well.

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Post #: 24

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 3:10:04 AM

RogueCell

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"Many kinky folk have attempted to sublimate their desires"

Personally, I think men in particular are biologically hardwired to place high value on the fulfilment of their sexual desires, and many are willing to take great risks with the rest of their lives in pursuit of same. Remind me again what proportion of fetishists are female?

Dear OP, you say you are honourable, which implies you have evolved beyond the biological, so this is not an excuse for the line I think you are destined to take. Why have you posted here? She has tried and told you she cannot do this your way. I presume you have considered doing it her way/doing it the way you signed up to, because that seems an obvious next step. I'm guessing that this does not feel like an option to you, so you have posted here either looking for advice on how to get her to accept the 'new' you, or to seek sympathy for your predicament. Which, of course, is entirely of your own making. That doesn't mean I don't have any sympathy (because everyone knows how awful it is to be stuck at an impasse with someone you love), but she has put the ball firmly back in your court, presenting you with a clear choice: be the man she married, or don't be her husband.

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 25

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 3:28:47 AM

Greta75

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FR
I saw a few post stating that the man should sacrifice his sexual preferences for the woman he loves.

I seriously don't understand this.

I mean...., I am just wondering, as a woman, who care about your man's happiness.... how can you be okay if your husband is gonna give up for the rest of his life, what brings him joy sexually, just for you?

How can any woman possibly be okay with that or feel good about that?

I totally don't understand this point of view.

(in reply to RogueCell)

Post #: 26

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 3:53:16 AM

Lucylastic

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Not a big surprise.
But are you saying that a woman should stay with a man no matter what his sexual preferences?
If so, i understand the disconnect

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(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 27

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 3:58:42 AM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR
I saw a few post stating that the man should sacrifice his sexual preferences for the woman he loves.

I seriously don't understand this.

I mean...., I am just wondering, as a woman, who care about your man's happiness.... how can you be okay if your husband is gonna give up for the rest of his life, what brings him joy sexually, just for you?

How can any woman possibly be okay with that or feel good about that?

I totally don't understand this point of view.

I think you are missing the label again Greta.

Firstly, you only seem to think along sexual lines - much like the OP.
For a lot of us, that "me, me, me" attitude is all wrong on many levels.

Secondly, from reading OP's opening gambit, it is he that has been deceitful and duped his wife into thinking he was vanilla and then sprung the D/s dynamic upon her after the marriage.

Thirdly, she tried it his way and she isn't wired that way. The fact that he seems so obsessed with kink that he can't adjust his lies to make things better between them says a lot about his character.

Fourthly, seeing as it is his bait-and-switch that has caused the problem, why should it always be the wife that should change? She has just as much right for her marriage to be "as presented" as he does.

Lastly, if he moves the goal-posts, he must be the one prepared to make any changes necessary to make it work.

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Post #: 28

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 5:00:29 AM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: theDominantGent
thank you for your time, and your valuable insights. poly is not an option (yet), i have discussed open marriage with my wife and till date she is not comfortable with it (i see her point, especially when it comes to kids and family). i agree with a lot of what you said. i shall wait to hear from others. this is not a vox populi, and your opinions make a lot of sense.

Hey, you are quite welcome. Thank you for taking the answer that you probably did not want to hear with such style and grace. Believe me, I've had other people over the years tell me off for saying the same thing in similar situations, so I appreciate the fact that you were willing to hear the reply with an open mind.

Just for extra info, I don't see an open marriage as the same way I do a poly agreement. If you want to start a thread in the poly section about that, I can go into more detail and possibly give more info.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I mean, while LP says she'll give up kink, but she is dominant married to a dominant who is still able to indulge in her kink with a third party with her husband's blessings. Now, that is harmony and their relationship works great. But you don't have that.

Greta, I have to give you credit where it's due. Your whole first response on this thread was a well thought out reply and I appreciate you recognizing that MP and I have kind of worked out a good solution for us. I included the above just as a reminder that, since we move around so much, there are still periods where I'm not actively engaging in kink, so I really do know what it's like to have dry spells. Sure. Several play partners once I get reestablished in a location, (I currently have a very happy arrangement) but that always takes a while.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
FR
I saw a few post stating that the man should sacrifice his sexual preferences for the woman he loves.

I seriously don't understand this.

I mean...., I am just wondering, as a woman, who care about your man's happiness.... how can you be okay if your husband is gonna give up for the rest of his life, what brings him joy sexually, just for you?

How can any woman possibly be okay with that or feel good about that?

I totally don't understand this point of view.

Believe me, I don't see the sex life that MP and I have as a sacrifice. For some people, non kinky sex/vanilla sex is still really good sex.

By choice, I'm not sleeping with any of my current play partners. I don't feel that I'm lacking in any way. For some folks, we don't feel like we're lacking just because it's not what we'd consider kinky sex. Good orgasms are still good orgasms, whether they are of the kink variety or not.

And, I know. When a person has the arrangement(s) that make them happy, it always seems easier when they say they'd give it up as opposed to folks who feel like they are feeling something is missing and they feel unfulfilled. (Kind of like folks who, when they have a lot of money say they would do fine being broke but the people who are broke think everything would be solved if they had money.) The difference is, I don't feel that I'm lacking.

The reason for the point of view is that, even if the OP's spouse caved in and gave him everything that he wanted, but SHE was unfulfilled because it's not the sex life that makes her happy, how is it any different? Doesn't he care about her happiness, too? It's not always up to the vanilla person to be the one to change.

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(in reply to theDominantGent)

Post #: 29

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 6:54:26 AM

WickedsDesire

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Sighs 1 or 2 I said Op and a purpose have I not said many times, @freedom will follow what I imply.

wanders off

(in reply to ExquisiteStings)

Post #: 30

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 7:46:03 AM

littleladybug

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I mean...., I am just wondering, as a woman, who care about your man's happiness.... how can you be okay if your husband is gonna give up for the rest of his life, what brings him joy sexually, just for you?

Ok, I'll bite, from a submissive woman's POV.

I care tremendously about my partner's happiness. I also care tremendously about my own happiness.

If my partner, God forbid, were to come to me today and say "hon, I've been thinking about it, and I need to find someone who will let me beat on her because I need to let my sadistic side out and you are not a masochist", we'd be having a very serious talk about that. The reality of the matter is that we entered this relationship with certain knowledge and expectations about each other, one of which was no outside play partners. Yes, I do care very much about his happiness, but not at the expense of my own.

He's a big boy. He entered into the relationship knowing that I was not ok with certain things. To want to change things mid-stream is going to require WAY more than some sort of weird guilt trip about it.

IMO, if something like this comes up, he has 3 options:

1) Talk to me about it. Using his big boy words, and NOT coming even remotely close to saying such crap as "if you truly loved me you would..." or anything close to that. He may or may not change my mind on it, but the way I see it, it's my prerogative to say "yes", "no" or anything in-between.

2) Accept the relationship for what it is. Find joy in all of the things that we do, and let go of any resentment for the things we don't.

3) Recognize that there may be a fundamental incompatibility and leave the relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
How can any woman possibly be okay with that or feel good about that?

I feel perfectly fine with having boundaries that will make me a happy person. If someone needs to have certain things that will bring them sexual joy, it's up to them to find someone compatible. Don't get into a relationship and expect that the other person is going to change, simply for your happiness.

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 31

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 7:57:18 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I mean...., I am just wondering, as a woman, who care about your man's happiness.... how can you be okay if your husband is gonna give up for the rest of his life, what brings him joy sexually, just for you?

Ok, I'll bite, from a submissive woman's POV.

I care tremendously about my partner's happiness. I also care tremendously about my own happiness.

If my partner, God forbid, were to come to me today and say "hon, I've been thinking about it, and I need to find someone who will let me beat on her because I need to let my sadistic side out and you are not a masochist", we'd be having a very serious talk about that. The reality of the matter is that we entered this relationship with certain knowledge and expectations about each other, one of which was no outside play partners. Yes, I do care very much about his happiness, but not at the expense of my own.

He's a big boy. He entered into the relationship knowing that I was not ok with certain things. To want to change things mid-stream is going to require WAY more than some sort of weird guilt trip about it.

IMO, if something like this comes up, he has 3 options:

1) Talk to me about it. Using his big boy words, and NOT coming even remotely close to saying such crap as "if you truly loved me you would..." or anything close to that. He may or may not change my mind on it, but the way I see it, it's my prerogative to say "yes", "no" or anything in-between.

2) Accept the relationship for what it is. Find joy in all of the things that we do, and let go of any resentment for the things we don't.

3) Recognize that there may be a fundamental incompatibility and leave the relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
How can any woman possibly be okay with that or feel good about that?

I feel perfectly fine with having boundaries that will make me a happy person. If someone needs to have certain things that will bring them sexual joy, it's up to them to find someone compatible. Don't get into a relationship and expect that the other person is going to change, simply for your happiness.

brilliant

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Post #: 32

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 10:25:20 AM

Wayward5oul

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Reading some of the posts, I get the impression that some people have interpreted your situation as a deception on your part. I don't see that. Not everyone knows what they are into right off the bat, and even when awareness starts, it is hard to acknowledge it if you know it is not going to be welcomed by others. Some people choose to keep it buried their whole life. You chose to finally be honest about what you were feeling. The way that I read your post is that you didn't even start becoming aware of this until after the marriage started, so I don't see how this is a deception. I don't see this as anyone's 'fault', nor do I think that either one of you should be wiling to sacrifice more than the other out of guilt.

But you are now married to someone who seems to be everything you want, except for in the bedroom. You went to her and told her how you were feeling. The two of you have tried to work though this, through therapy, counseling, and even experimentation in kink between he two of you. And it isn't working.

There may still be ways to make this work, but nothing I say here will be new. It is the same things many others posters have advised,i n one way or another.

Someone suggested going to munches together and get acquainted with others in the lifestyle so that it does not seem like such a strange thing to your wife. Plenty of people who identify as vanilla do some kinky shit in the bedroom, they just don't talk about it. If part of the problem is your wife having trouble accepting the 'idea' of kink, making her see it in other contexts or through the eyes of other people could help. But if she is resistant to this, don't try and force it.

Is she open to you having non-sexual play partners? Is she even aware that that is a possibility? When I first got into this, I was surprised at how many people do this without sex. Would that be enough for you, or do you need the sexual element as well? Those are things that you could discuss and explore.

Do you think it is possible for you to be happy without kink? People sacrifice things to be in relationships. We all do. Is this one of those things that you could still be happy without?

If not, you should not feel bad about that. Yes it would have been better for you to have realized all of this before marriage, but that ain't always how life works. People grow, they change, and sometimes who they become does not fit into the life they have. That's just reality. Life is hard. And it is not fair. We do the best we can with what we have.

Doing what is considered to be 'the right thing', staying in this by sacrificing something that you may decide you can't be happy without, is not really doing the right thing. At least not in my opinion. if you aren't happy, then you are not going to be able to make her happy. And consigning her to a life like that is no more fair to her than leaving her in search of your own happiness. And then to bring children in the picture, which would happen probably, means them growing up watching the two of you be unfulfilled, and thinking that that is what love looks like and what they should be looking for in their own lives.

(in reply to theDominantGent)

Post #: 33

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 10:33:04 AM

Wayward5oul

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExquisiteStings
And another opinion of mine is that how is any of this the wife's fault when she reluctantly acquiesced to his wishes and just happened to like it after a while and now he's resenting the fact that she likes it?

You must have read a different post than I did. The one I read said that she tried it and didn't like it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExquisiteStings
When she was initially emotionally compelled by him prompting her to do it because his happiness was very important to her? I wonder if he secretly wanted her to always be resentful and appearing unhappy. He more or less forced her hand in this one and I don't think he has much of a right to complain at this point. If they cannot communicate openly and honestly about this particular snafu on the guy's part, then methinks this relationship is doomed.

Seems to me they have communicated openly and honestly about this to a great deal. When he realized this was something that was becoming a big deal to him, he told her. They tried therapy, and counseling. Both of which requires a hell of a lot of communication. And yes she did give in and experiment in it, to please him. But she has decided that she doesn't like it, and she told him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExquisiteStings
And how in the world are they gonna explain this to the kids who pick up on moods more than anyone is aware? Seriously, I hope they don't labor under the delusion that the children are totally oblivious to the currently unhappy dynamics between their parental units.

This, however, is very important to remember. They are not just deciding their future in all of this, but the future of potential children and the home they would grow up in.

(in reply to ExquisiteStings)

Post #: 34

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 12:03:30 PM

masmiss

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I have to admit that my reaction to this thread when I read the OP was that the OP was looking for permission to cheat on his wife.

After forty plus years of dating and relationships my experience with men tells me that in many cases the dick's needs will always come first.

Maybe I'm wrong but the OP seems to want us to say "Awww, poor thing. Wife doesn't want to give the dick the kinks it desires. By all means, find someone to satisfy the dick but stay securely married to the woman you claim to love."

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Post #: 35

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 12:16:35 PM

angelikaJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR
I saw a few post stating that the man should sacrifice his sexual preferences for the woman he loves.

I seriously don't understand this.

I mean...., I am just wondering, as a woman, who care about your man's happiness.... how can you be okay if your husband is gonna give up for the rest of his life, what brings him joy sexually, just for you?

How can any woman possibly be okay with that or feel good about that?

I totally don't understand this point of view.

Picture this Greta: you fall in love with a man and marry him.

After you get married he tells you what would really please him would be for the 2 of you to have long french kissing sessions or anal.

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(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 36

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 1:17:21 PM

Spiritedsub2

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A genuinely honorable man wouldn't need to ask the OP question.

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Post #: 37

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 5:01:16 PM

Wayward5oul

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quote:

ORIGINAL: masmiss

I have to admit that my reaction to this thread when I read the OP was that the OP was looking for permission to cheat on his wife.

I will be the first person to say AMEN to this little truth. See it all the time. Kink and vanilla world. Jerks always seem to find an excuse to be looking.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that wasn't my first instinct here. The post isn't entirely 'me, me, me' like many others that I see. It is pretty even-handed in terms of talking about the lengths that each of them have gone through to try and fix this, he discusses thoughts and fears in terms of 'we', not 'I'. And his final question is 'what would you do in our situation, not 'my' situation.

There are actually some sincere people in this world who have problems seek out advice on forums like this, especially when all else has failed. If I don't see any obvious red flags, I 'll willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

Like I said, I may be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong about a poster on here looking for advice that turned out to be a jackass just looking for validation. Wouldn't be the last. I am sure.

(in reply to masmiss)

Post #: 38

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 5:14:10 PM

Greta75

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

After you get married he tells you what would really please him would be for the 2 of you to have long french kissing sessions or anal.

That was the reality of my x-marriage.
So at first, I told him, I will give it a chance. But I still hated it.
So I told him to find another woman to enjoy it with, as I wanted him to be happy.
Loving someone is wanting the best for that person isn't it?

Putting that person's needs above yours.

Otherwise, how can one say, you actually care or love that person?

It's like, for him to give it up, is, I win, He loses, situation. How is that, thinking in his best interest? If I cared about him?

I always look for the Win-Win.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 1/31/2016 5:17:25 PM >

(in reply to angelikaJ)

Post #: 39

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 5:28:39 PM

RogueCell

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Greta: forgive me for puking a little bit in my mouth.

Are you Burmese? I think you are from Singapore based on other things I read, but this makes you sound Burmese.

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 40

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