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RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 5:37:32 PM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RogueCell

Greta: forgive me for puking a little bit in my mouth.

Are you Burmese? I think you are from Singapore based on other things I read, but this makes you sound Burmese.

Are you stereotyping Burmese people? I didn't know they generally hate french kissing and anal sex too. Maybe I should date a Burmese dude if that is true!

(in reply to RogueCell)

Post #: 41

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 5:42:18 PM

RogueCell

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Maybe. I have hosted a few Burmese women at my home....I have never heard people speak so obsequiously and you reminded me of that.

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 42

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 5:43:49 PM

Greta75

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RogueCell

Maybe. I have hosted a few Burmese women at my home....I have never heard people speak so obsequiously and you reminded me of that.

Well, I have never met a Burmese person in my life, so I wouldn't know how they are like.

But you painting me as "obedient" is probably the funniest picture ever. I always have a mind of my own. But I think it's cruel to deprive a man you love of his kinks, just because you hate it.

I don't think it's caring or loving, as an action towards him. If we analyze this taking irrational emotions out of it. And really, the only reason why that would be unacceptable for him to enjoy it elsewhere if she can't provide it, is because of her feelings about it. She would feel hurt by it. It's a self-driven decision.

I mean, people feelings get hurt by alot of different things. It may not even be sex. A man may love to play football, and spends more time playing football than spend time with his wife, and she's gonna be hurt too. Some wife are supportive, some get upset and want him to cut down his football time.

But one decision is focus on self-needs. And other decision is putting your partner's needs before yourself.

Which decision which partner takes, it could go either way, depends on which partner wants to make the sacrifice. It's hard to measure who's sacrifice is greater most of the time and who sacrifice what, and who gets to keep doing what.

But in this case, I'm a woman who don't see sex as an equation to love. Love is when you go bankrupt, you are down in the dumps, and that person sticks by you through it all. Real major stuffs. A dick in a vagina. That's not love. A french kiss? That's not love. Any physical touch? Someone can be super romantic and make love to you like you are the most incredible person to him or her in the world, but that means nothing.

It's when all things go south and where that person is, and what will that person do, that speaks more volumes of love.

So this sex thing is so insignificant in the big picture I feel.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 1/31/2016 5:52:31 PM >

(in reply to RogueCell)

Post #: 43

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 5:50:24 PM

angelikaJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

After you get married he tells you what would really please him would be for the 2 of you to have long french kissing sessions or anal.

That was the reality of my x-marriage.
So at first, I told him, I will give it a chance. But I still hated it.
So I told him to find another woman to enjoy it with, as I wanted him to be happy.
Loving someone is wanting the best for that person isn't it?

Putting that person's needs above yours.

Otherwise, how can one say, you actually care or love that person?

It's like, for him to give it up, is, I win, He loses, situation. How is that, thinking in his best interest? If I cared about him?

I always look for the Win-Win.

Most people (not all) who marry desire for monogamy.
It is not wrong for her to want that with the man she married.
Nor is it wrong for her to want a "vanilla" marriage.

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(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 44

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 5:59:46 PM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ
Most people (not all) who marry desire for monogamy.
It is not wrong for her to want that with the man she married.
Nor is it wrong for her to want a "vanilla" marriage.

I am not criticizing the woman for choosing to want monogamy.
I am commenting on others, who think there is only one proper angle to look at this, and they villianising the man for struggling with not receiving his kinky needs.

I do think in OP's case, they should just part. If he can't bring himself to genuinely feel happy about his sacrifices for her, then the relationship can only go south. She's unhappy, because his unhappy. The vibes can be felt and will bring both down.

But if this was a man who can feel happy and content with all that she is giving, without the sex, for the rest of his life, then that's great, I am happy for him. But this is not the situation in their marriage.

She has to care about his needs too, if she cares about him. It's not just all about herself and her needs. It's a difficult balance with the give and take thing. But it depends on what's the goal and situation. This marriage can't be saved if he continues to feel this unhappy. And a decision has to be made on her end too, for her own happiness too.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 1/31/2016 6:04:17 PM >

(in reply to angelikaJ)

Post #: 45

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 6:04:49 PM

littleladybug

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Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Putting that person's needs above yours.

Otherwise, how can one say, you actually care or love that person?

To me, putting my romantic partner's sexual "needs" above my own is martyrdom, not love.

For example, putting his hypothetical need for a play partner above my own need not to feel sick to my stomach thinking about my partner doing these things with another person, is not love, as far as I'm concerned. That is me not accepting my own desire for happiness and security within the relationship.

Certainly, I will do things that I don't particularly like because it makes him happy. However, there is a distinct limit to that. I will not do things that make me feel emotionally and physically ill. To me, that's not love, that's just being damned unhealthy.

With that said, I'd be as open-minded as I could possibly be if he came to me with this desire. I can honestly not imagine what he could say that would sway my feelings on this, but I wouldn't say that it could never happen. More likely though would be the ultimate decision, on his part, to stay and not partake in this particular "need", or leave and partake in it to his heart's content.

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 46

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 6:12:26 PM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug
To me, putting my romantic partner's sexual "needs" above my own is martyrdom, not love.

So this man is committing martydom, because HE IS putting his wife's sexual needs above his. By staying faithful, and giving up everything he loves in sex for her. I guess his a Martyr right now.

quote:

For example, putting his hypothetical need for a play partner above my own need not to feel sick to my stomach thinking about my partner doing these things with another person, is not love, as far as I'm concerned. That is me not accepting my own desire for happiness and security within the relationship.

As I said, I am not against monogamy. In a perfect world. You marry someone, sex is perfect, you can't imagine having sex with anybody else but that person, because sex is perfect and heavenly with that person. Happily ever after for both couples, and I am happy for them.

Monogamy just gets all stupidly complicated when you love someone but do not enjoy sex with the person you love. That's what's happening with OP right now. He thinks loves her dearly for everything else but not enjoying the sex. That is the problem. And it's a difficult problem. To me, best is never to hook up with someone you hate sex with to start with! Then don't even have to gabble with this issue, but many people do end up in marriages with people they hate sex with. That's when the wife stops wanting any sex at all as she's not enjoying him and maybe his not enjoying her either, because she doesn't want what he wants in bed.

For me, it just seems that the first reaction is, the man should just give up sex totally or find some way to somehow change what he enjoys in sex so that he can be happy with her. And that's always the typical first reaction. It just seems ridiculous to me.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 1/31/2016 6:21:27 PM >

(in reply to littleladybug)

Post #: 47

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 6:33:33 PM

littleladybug

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Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
So this man is committing martydom, because HE IS putting his wife's sexual needs above his. By staying faithful, and giving up everything he loves in sex for her. I guess his a Martyr right now.

So, what's the solution here, Greta?

Something's got to give, and I personally don't think that it would be at all "honorable" for him to expect that his wife will embrace the new him. It's not like she entered into this relationship with this expectation. She tried it, she didn't like it. What now? To put out the expectation that "if she truly loved him, she would do this" is quite frankly, detestable to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
Monogamy just gets all stupidly complicated when you love someone but do not enjoy sex with the person you love. That's what's happening with OP right now. He thinks loves her dearly for everything else but not enjoying the sex. That is the problem. And it's a difficult problem. To me, best is never to hook up with someone you hate sex with to start with! Then don't even have to gabble with this issue, but many people do end up in marriages with people they hate sex with. That's when the wife stops wanting any sex at all as she's not enjoying him and maybe his not enjoying her either, because she doesn't want what he wants in bed.

You roll the dice, you take your chances. A lot of times I feel sympathetic to those who simply are not compatible sexually.

Where I don't have sympathy is where someone comes in mid-stream and changes the rules. "But, this is who I am! This is what I NEED!". And, God forbid, says something to the effect of "if you really loved me, you would do this".

Stay or leave. A simple, yet admittedly not easy, choice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
For me, it just seems that the first reaction is, the man should just give up sex totally. And that's always the typical first reaction. It just seems ridiculous to me.

No- I think most people are saying that the person who is blindsided by this information should not be the one who necessarily has to do the changing.

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 48

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 7:00:07 PM

Lucylastic

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The one part that made me feel icky and it being "selfish" of him.. She has gone to therapy, counselling, they discuss, they cry, they argue... he asks for input....
He says

quote:

poly is not an option (yet),

Im sorry, that sounds to me like that is what he wants and its only a matter of time before she is facing that as well. Altho it sounds like open marriage has been discussed. BUT she doesnt like the idea, why would she? especially if she is not bi or is vanilla.

We went thru the same thing.....Well except I was the kinky one.
My husband did all that she did for her husband, we talked, we went to parties, we played, we did both sides of the kneel, and top and bottom to each other.
He just wasnt into it.
We didnt go to counselling, I cant say it would have made things better or worse.
If my husband had said "no.. me or divorce", I would have stayed with him. I married him for a reason.
But he didnt say no, this went on for three years with heavy discussions.
I never tried to bully him into anything, Im dominant not domineering.
He still isnt kinky, i split with my sub last year, and while I may find another play partner or even a submissive, my marriage is where I wanna be.
My first post said end it, either the kink or the marriage. his choice, but in no way is she to blame for his desires or actions or for her inability/desire or want to get into BDSM Or D/s.

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Post #: 49

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 7:29:00 PM

LadyPact

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Just an additional contribution.

First, I am curious as to where anybody said the OP should give up sex? I am saying don't force his wife to participate in KINKY sex if it makes her unhappy. That's not giving up sex all together.

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Post #: 50

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 9:49:57 PM

dreamlady

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Joined: 9/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Just an additional contribution.

First, I am curious as to where anybody said the OP should give up sex? I am saying don't force his wife to participate in KINKY sex if it makes her unhappy. That's not giving up sex all together.

I also don't get that part. (And I had every intention of staying out of this thread.)

I'm going to have to go with this post because that was my first impression, that the ship has already left port.

quote:

ORIGINAL: masmiss
I have to admit that my reaction to this thread when I read the OP was that the OP was looking for permission to cheat on his wife.

After forty plus years of dating and relationships my experience with men tells me that in many cases the dick's needs will always come first.

Maybe I'm wrong but the OP seems to want us to say "Awww, poor thing. Wife doesn't want to give the dick the kinks it desires. By all means, find someone to satisfy the dick but stay securely married to the woman you claim to love."

Although OP writes that he's not looking at this point in his 2-3 day-old profile, he has put down that he is Actively Seeking submissive women, switch women, and/or an on-line romance.
Hardly honorable intentions.

The elephant in the room here is whether OP's wife knows that her husband has set up an account on a kink site to get his *needs* met elsewhere.

It sounds to me, Greta, that despite all of this marital counseling and so forth, this young husband could care less about his wife's needs at this juncture. He has been dominating their marriage without her consent, but that isn't enough for him.
He doesn't want to be a Dominant. He just wants to get his kinky sex needs met, period -- to have his cake (baked by his wife) and eat it (all by himself), too.

He's right. This couple is a mismatch, and I can't help but believe that lack of maturity (married at 24 for 4 years now) is playing a large part in their relationship dysfunctionalism. He needs to go "find" himself, and she needs to let him go. The die has been cast, that she has been made to feel that she is not enough, that she is inadequate as a wife in the bedroom in his eyes. She didn't sign up to be non-consensually sexually objectified, and I don't believe this shattered mirror can be pieced back together again.
Perhaps in a few years, he'll come to his senses at what damage he has caused in his marriage. But by then, it'll be too little, too late.

DreamLady

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(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 51

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 10:29:53 PM

princessmika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
Although OP writes that he's not looking at this point in his 2-3 day-old profile, he has put down that he is Actively Seeking submissive women, switch women, and/or an on-line romance.
Hardly honorable intentions. The elephant in the room here is whether OP's wife knows that her husband has set up an account on a kink site to get his *needs* met elsewhere.

It sounds to me, Greta, that despite all of this marital counseling and so forth, this young husband could care less about his wife's needs at this juncture. He has been dominating their marriage without her consent, but that isn't enough for him.
He doesn't want to be a Dominant. He just wants to get his kinky sex needs met, period -- to have his cake (baked by his wife) and eat it (all by himself), too.

He's right. This couple is a mismatch, and I can't help but believe that lack of maturity (married at 24 for 4 years now) is playing a large part in their relationship dysfunctionalism. He needs to go "find" himself, and she needs to let him go. The die has been cast, that she has been made to feel that she is not enough, that she is inadequate as a wife in the bedroom in his eyes. She didn't sign up to be non-consensually sexually objectified, and I don't believe this shattered mirror can be pieced back together again.
Perhaps in a few years, he'll come to his senses at what damage he has caused in his marriage. But by then, it'll be too little, too late.

DreamLady

I think you're absolutely correct, I couldn't have said it better myself. Great post!

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Post #: 52

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 10:33:55 PM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug
So, what's the solution here, Greta?

Something's got to give, and I personally don't think that it would be at all "honorable" for him to expect that his wife will embrace the new him. It's not like she entered into this relationship with this expectation. She tried it, she didn't like it. What now? To put out the expectation that "if she truly loved him, she would do this" is quite frankly, detestable to me.

In this case, I truly think their solution is to part and find happiness with other people, both of them. Both of them equally deserve someone in their lives who they can feel happy with and they aren't happy with each other. But I am just thinking about all the couples who don't have sex before marriage. This is probably gonna happen since they are just gonna find out about the sexual compatibility only after marriage. I mean, this is a common unfortunate situation. I mean, solutions are definitely:
1) Change yourself, change your sexual preferences
2) Open relationship
3) Leave and find others more compatible

No right answers, no best way.

quote:

No- I think most people are saying that the person who is blindsided by this information should not be the one who necessarily has to do the changing.

I do agree OP has to take some responsibility for misleading her of his sexual preferences assumingly he knew his preferences before marriage already. But relationships are emotional and both were young and still explorative. I didn't know my x-husband love anal before marrying him. Because I never even bother asking him that question and it never occur to me, he would love anal because his so vanilla. And my x-husband was a virgin with me, so it never occur to him he loves anal too, until after years of vagina sex and he felt yearnings to experience anal and when he mention it to me, I agreed to it, as I want him to experience what he wants, and so he discovered he really enjoyed it and I discovered I really hated it! I mean, it happens. And I like to try things before I say I hate or love it. And he was really my best friend, like bestestest friend to hang out with in the world, I chose him because I can imagine us at 90, holding hands and just enjoying each other company. But anyway, it wasn't such a tragic situation for us, as I've always been cool with open relationships, but the funny thing, it was him who was not comfortable with doing it with someone else, so another problem comes in, that he only wants that with me, but I don't enjoy it. But on my end, I told him, find it with someone else, or live without it! End of that situation. I thought that was fair to him and me. And he did find someone else who loved it, and who was his perfect sexual match. And he did leave me to be with her. And he didn't last with her either. You know despite that experience, I am still not fearful of open relationships, because to me, if I had to feel fear losing a man who sleeps with another woman. I am with somebody I do not trust at all, that is not an ideal relationship to me.

But it could have been really bad for others, if they were strictly traditional monogamous by nature.

End of the day, OP needs the guts to leave! Just be a man and end this and find someone more compatible! I think on this part, most of us are on the same page.

My point is, I suspect OP was like my x-husband, married young, and only discover his other preferences as sex in the marriage develops. It happens with inexperience sexual people, when they are still at explorative stages. Especially in their 20's. From his OP, it doesn't sound like, he knew he was into bdsm before marriage.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 1/31/2016 10:39:26 PM >

(in reply to littleladybug)

Post #: 53

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 1/31/2016 10:40:28 PM

Dvr22999874

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Best way.......leave and live your life within the confines of YOUR preferences and don't try and impose those preferences on somebody else..................unless of course, that may be the OPs kink ?

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Post #: 54

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 2/1/2016 2:28:26 AM

Cinnamongirl67

Posts: 854
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The OP is young. It's very possible he married to young and hadn't matured enough to really know what he wanted and who he was. People mature at different rates.
Speaking from experience, if you really want to be honorable, cheating isn't the option.
It will bite you in the ass, whether now or later.

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Post #: 55

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 2/1/2016 3:44:31 AM

sexyred1

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I don't think it's youth that's the problem. I knew what I wanted at a very young age. I made mistakes trying to get it along the way.

The OP says they went to couples therapy, which I found extremely helpful.

Usually, a decision can be made after all the therapy and private discussions. I believe they are incompatible, which is blameless. They should move on. Love is not enough to solve sexual incompatibility.

The thing that I disagree with intensely, are those who feel his wife should try harder to be what he wants.

She has a right to her own preferences and it seems she's done a great job of trying already.

You cannot force compatibility, you can either suffer through it, cheat or leave the relationship. I think a year of counseling is enough to know the answer.

(in reply to Cinnamongirl67)

Post #: 56

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 2/1/2016 6:34:01 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Just an additional contribution.

First, I am curious as to where anybody said the OP should give up sex? I am saying don't force his wife to participate in KINKY sex if it makes her unhappy. That's not giving up sex all together.

I also don't get that part. (And I had every intention of staying out of this thread.)

I'm going to have to go with this post because that was my first impression, that the ship has already left port.

quote:

ORIGINAL: masmiss
I have to admit that my reaction to this thread when I read the OP was that the OP was looking for permission to cheat on his wife.

After forty plus years of dating and relationships my experience with men tells me that in many cases the dick's needs will always come first.

Maybe I'm wrong but the OP seems to want us to say "Awww, poor thing. Wife doesn't want to give the dick the kinks it desires. By all means, find someone to satisfy the dick but stay securely married to the woman you claim to love."

Although OP writes that he's not looking at this point in his 2-3 day-old profile, he has put down that he is Actively Seeking submissive women, switch women, and/or an on-line romance.
Hardly honorable intentions. The elephant in the room here is whether OP's wife knows that her husband has set up an account on a kink site to get his *needs* met elsewhere.

It sounds to me, Greta, that despite all of this marital counseling and so forth, this young husband could care less about his wife's needs at this juncture. He has been dominating their marriage without her consent, but that isn't enough for him.
He doesn't want to be a Dominant. He just wants to get his kinky sex needs met, period -- to have his cake (baked by his wife) and eat it (all by himself), too.

He's right. This couple is a mismatch, and I can't help but believe that lack of maturity (married at 24 for 4 years now) is playing a large part in their relationship dysfunctionalism. He needs to go "find" himself, and she needs to let him go. The die has been cast, that she has been made to feel that she is not enough, that she is inadequate as a wife in the bedroom in his eyes. She didn't sign up to be non-consensually sexually objectified, and I don't believe this shattered mirror can be pieced back together again.
Perhaps in a few years, he'll come to his senses at what damage he has caused in his marriage. But by then, it'll be too little, too late.

DreamLady

I was truly trying to give benefit of the doubt as much as I could.

However, the part above where the "looking for" is set for submissive women, etc is rather damning. I know we have a "friend's only" option here and if the "honorable" is going to play into that, it's a mixed signal.

I'm also noticing that the OP hasn't come back since his first response on the thread after I posted. That's generally not a good sign.

I know a lot of kinky people think that automatically, the kink should win, no matter what. Sometimes on these threads, it will go that way, because some kinky folks just don't seem to want to treat non kinky folks with the same fairness. If this thread would have been "I want my sub to break her hard limit," (which basically is what this situation is - it's just that the vanilla wife has kink as her hard limit) people would have had no problem siding with someone keeping their hard limit in tact. Too often, people don't look at these situations with that perspective.

_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to dreamlady)

Post #: 57

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 2/1/2016 7:22:19 AM

Greta75

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

"I want my sub to break her hard limit," (which basically is what this situation is - it's just that the vanilla wife has kink as her hard limit) people would have had no problem siding with someone keeping their hard limit in tact.

No, this is the equivalent of, "I can't get my sub to go into the extremes of the kinks that I want to go, but I love her very much and I don't know what to do about this. One end, I love her, the other end, my desire for greater extremes makes me discontent."

It's more like this kind of problem.

I don't think he wants her to break her hard limits. He tried to suggest open relationship and she has shut that down too. But he just have a difficult choice to make. It's like meeting someone who fulfill only 50% of you. The first 50% is like really really good, the other 50% is missing. And it's like not sure whether to stay or go. And then can't find a happy solution to stay on.

I think the decision always look most straightforward as a third party, but not for the person going through it.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 58

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 2/1/2016 7:55:44 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

But she isnt his sub, shes not interested, so it IS NOT equivalent.
She isnt comfortable with an open marriage
He wants poly.
ALso there is a difference IF she was willing to an open marriage, would she argue for the same "right" to find someone else...would he be ok with her finding a sexual match?, or is he seriously just using it to get his fantasies of two or more women recognized.

My hubby and I have an understanding, we dont have an open marriage.
He has never cheated on me, or used his own needs against me, he has never wanted to be a cuck, or a bull. He has never requested or demanded a threesome of any type.
If he had...the marriage would have been over years ago.
Now, if he wanted to go out and find someone who provided him with what I dont (which is literally impossible as we have discussed it to death, but lets go with it), The ground rules would be seriously discussed and agreed upon each damn step. If not agreed upon HONESTLY, it wont go any further.
my marriage isnt perfect, but we both respect each other and much love.
Wether its maturity or lack of it... She doesnt look like she will get a happy relationship with him. SHe doesnt deserve the hurt.

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(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 59

RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually... - 2/1/2016 8:33:11 AM

Greta75

Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ALso there is a difference IF she was willing to an open marriage, would she argue for the same "right" to find someone else...would he be ok with her finding a sexual match?, or is he seriously just using it to get his fantasies of two or more women recognized.

Open marriage swings both directions. If his getting some elsewhere, she's getting some elsewhere. To me, that's what it means. If only one party gets it, it's more like cuckold and not open marriage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
My hubby and I have an understanding, we dont have an open marriage.

How is your marriage not open when you mentioned before you do get involve with third parties with your husband's approval?

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 60

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