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RE: A typical situation - 3/17/2016 8:13:17 PM   
Greta75


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Thanks for sharing insight everyone!

I was very uncomfortable in suggesting counseling and medical, but some of you have given me useful ideas on how it should be presented without making her feel defensive about it.

(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: A typical situation - 3/18/2016 3:07:11 AM   
mousekabob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Depression?

Doctor's appointment, stat.

Only problem is, women who don't feel like sex will take offense to be told it's a psychological or medical problem ha.
I don't know how he would broach that subject successfully.




They do? Maybe some. Maybe where you live. There are times when I don't want it but I know full well it's due to my depression and meds or something going on in my life.

He needs to ask her to get a doctor appointment and marriage therapy.

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RE: A typical situation - 3/18/2016 3:14:48 AM   
LadyPact


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Best I can do, ok?

First, eliminate the physical. Has she gone to her general practitioner? Get her blood work done. Ask her doc about any side effects about medications.

Then, look at the psychological. Is she depressed for any reason?

Third, what a lot of men don't want to look at, he's just not hitting her happy zones. Skip that stuff about the kids (cause, he should be doing that as a man, anyway.) His relationship with his children doesn't necessarily make him sexy.

Tell him to stop (or draw back) the things that he THINKS are going to do it for her. Screw that stuff about how he thinks he is so awesome about massage or silly things. If she *knows* that is the expectation about it, she isn't going to have an interest, sexually. Cuddling, kissing, just time out for her, WITHOUT the pressure of sex? Yep, better.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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RE: A typical situation - 3/18/2016 6:05:19 AM   
satanscharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Best I can do, ok?

First, eliminate the physical. Has she gone to her general practitioner? Get her blood work done. Ask her doc about any side effects about medications.

Then, look at the psychological. Is she depressed for any reason?

Third, what a lot of men don't want to look at, he's just not hitting her happy zones. Skip that stuff about the kids (cause, he should be doing that as a man, anyway.) His relationship with his children doesn't necessarily make him sexy.

Tell him to stop (or draw back) the things that he THINKS are going to do it for her. Screw that stuff about how he thinks he is so awesome about massage or silly things. If she *knows* that is the expectation about it, she isn't going to have an interest, sexually. Cuddling, kissing, just time out for her, WITHOUT the pressure of sex? Yep, better.




Great advice.

A decreased (or non-existent) libido isn't always a medical condition.
If she has never been satisfied in the bedroom, I can understand why the desire simply isn't there. Her just laying there to take it, for him, does neither one of them any favors. I know you mentioned he's tried asking what he can do, but answering that is not always easy for every woman. Maybe she's embarrassed, maybe she doesn't know herself what'll float her boat, or maybe she doesn't want to teach him. It's very important to him and, if she wants him to stay, should be very important for her enough to open up. If they fail at communicating, this is where a marriage counselor would come in handy.

There is still a possibility, though, that she just doesn't have any desire and would be content with little to no sex. In that case, they are sexually incompatible and may want to discuss other options.

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RE: A typical situation - 3/19/2016 1:03:59 AM   
Greta75


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Hi Guys, so I mentioned this to him and I found out that, they have gone to 3 different counsellors. They been to sex therapists.

And they have explored medical.

There was nothing wrong with her.

And the sex therapist told him that, almost every week, she sees a woman that her sex drive just completely vanish with no cause. It just happens.

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RE: A typical situation - 3/19/2016 1:07:20 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Best I can do, ok?
Cuddling, kissing, just time out for her, WITHOUT the pressure of sex? Yep, better.



I am slowly beginning to learn that, many women don't like cuddling and kissing too! Her reaction, according to him, is, "That's enough."

And his not the first man who told me this! I had other men tell me stories about women who goes like, women they dated in the past, who would go like, "Haven't you had enough?" When he cuddles her.


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RE: A typical situation - 3/19/2016 3:08:02 PM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I am slowly beginning to learn that, many women don't like cuddling and kissing too! Her reaction, according to him, is, "That's enough."

And his not the first man who told me this! I had other men tell me stories about women who goes like, women they dated in the past, who would go like, "Haven't you had enough?" When he cuddles her.

Yes, but in their particular case, this could be something else. It could mean that some advice about improving their sex life could be the exact stuff that is working against him.

Usually, the advice given to men when the wife is slowing down in the bedroom *is* to do the romantic/emotionally bonding stuff. This is good advice when it's a relatively new problem and the woman isn't feeling like she's getting the same attention that she used to, not being wooed, or whatever.

And, it's the exact reason why the strategy might be backfiring for your friend. She knows that the cuddling, kissing, or whatever he's doing as a precursor for sex is exactly that. So, when he's doing the affectionate/romantic stuff, if she's thinking that the end game is sexual activity, she's not going to want to engage in the stuff that comes before. If she's not liking the sex, she's going to learn to dislike the things that lead to the sex. He's taught her the pattern. Now he has to teach her that it's not always a pattern. Over time, that will make her more receptive to the affectionate stuff.

More than anything though, these really are folks that need to go back to counseling together and she probably needs some of her own individually. If it's been this long, she may not be willing to open up about the lacking sex drive if they do their therapy jointly. If it's been like this for as long as you're implying, there might be something more to this.



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RE: A typical situation - 3/19/2016 8:25:37 PM   
DesFIP


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If the only time he hugs her is when he expects her to pay for it with sex, then no wonder she's turned off.

Do they have a date night? Get a sitter, go out for a walk holding hands, go out for a dinner she doesn't have to cook. Relax and talk about funny and upbeat things. But don't expect her to have sex that night.

More affection for no reason except to show her she's loved. Assuming this is true.

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RE: A typical situation - 3/19/2016 9:29:10 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

If the only time he hugs her is when he expects her to pay for it with sex, then no wonder she's turned off.

Do they have a date night? Get a sitter, go out for a walk holding hands, go out for a dinner she doesn't have to cook. Relax and talk about funny and upbeat things. But don't expect her to have sex that night.

More affection for no reason except to show her she's loved. Assuming this is true.

She has refused to allow him to hire help, sitter, or anything. He always wanted to hire help so she has ZERO excuse for being too tired to have a sex drive. His asked for date night once a week, and she always said she prefers to stay at home and spend time with kids and do things as a whole family. Now his trying to persuade her to do it at least once a month. This date night thingy! He said it's very difficult to get her to want to do any dating things also.



< Message edited by Greta75 -- 3/19/2016 9:34:22 PM >

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RE: A typical situation - 3/19/2016 9:31:35 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
And, it's the exact reason why the strategy might be backfiring for your friend. She knows that the cuddling, kissing, or whatever he's doing as a precursor for sex is exactly that. So, when he's doing the affectionate/romantic stuff, if she's thinking that the end game is sexual activity, she's not going to want to engage in the stuff that comes before. If she's not liking the sex, she's going to learn to dislike the things that lead to the sex. He's taught her the pattern. Now he has to teach her that it's not always a pattern. Over time, that will make her more receptive to the affectionate stuff.

Then this is the problem. His goal is regular sex with her! But not JUST regular sex. He gets it twice a week, like she does it like it's her duty. What he wants is passion. Not duty. So definitely everything he does will be the prelude to trying to turn her on to sex.
I just think, it's so sad when a man is trying so hard, and...., well...., it's just unfortunate.


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 3/19/2016 9:33:30 PM >

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RE: A typical situation - 3/20/2016 4:54:57 AM   
LadyPact


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Greta, that actually does make sense because, really, who wants to feel like the person having sex with them is just doing it out of obligation? That would kind of suck. So I'm guessing that neither one of them are feeling really great about that point. I wouldn't.

If they've been separated for six months, I'm guessing he's not currently having sex with her twice a week, but that was before? If it was, he's got a chance to try some new methods and she's got a chance to do some digging about *why* she doesn't really enjoy sex. It could be any number of core reasons, so really, to anybody but her and her doctor and/or therapist are just doing the guessing game.

I really do hope they get it worked out.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: A typical situation - 3/20/2016 5:55:52 AM   
AtUrCervix


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Greta, this chic is broken. Got married because it was her time to do so....taught her whole life that's what she wanted.

I married the love of my life in 1987. For our first date, I asked her for a list of 5 things she'd never done that she always wanted to (ride a horse, walk under a waterfall....)....she gave me that list and I said "great....see you at 6:00 a.m. on Saturday" and we didn't go home until we did every single one. My proposal made the local news, we were invited to 2 local morning talk shows to talk about it.....went to Hawaii for our honeymoon, in December, had a great condo on the beach, honeymoon night, maybe 3 people in the entire condo complex, I found a cabana and hot tub on the beach (she loves hot tubs), said "let's go down to the hot tub and fuck".

When we were dating (she was a holy roller....raised by holy rollers) she kept telling me "when we get married, I'm going to give you the best sex you've ever had in your life".

She said "what if someone sees us?" (it was 2:00 a.m.) I said "well then, they'll get a nice show".

She said I was a pervert.

For wanting to have sex in a hot tub on the beach.

She meant it.

I was literally slack jawed.

Every time I attempted to have sex (for the first 6 months), it was like pulling teeth.

Eventually, I simply gave up....didn't want to force myself on her.

She was constantly worried about what other people thought (about everything).

I finally, after 4 years of this, confronted her parents privately one day for two hours and asked them..."what is in her past that's so dark? Why is she so afraid of sex?"

They both insisted there was nothing there. Fervently so.

Then, 6 months later we're having turkey day at my brother in laws house (she had two brothers) and the topic of sex came up, both my sisters in law asked me "why would two healthy young men not want sex?" I said "You have to be kidding me....you too????"

(And these girls were FINE beyond EVERY possible description).

6 months after that, my Mother in law asked all of us over for a "special, very important dinner".

(Meanwhile, my wife and I had been going to counselors, 3 consecutively different ones, each one telling my wife to "let go of your father....he doesn't live with you", with me trying to figure out wtf was wrong).

My Mother in Law sat us all down, proceeded to break down, balling her eyes out, explained that her father (my wife's grandfather....a lifelong pastor) had raped her (my Mother in Law) for years between the ages of 5 and 9.

They moved every 8 to 12 months to "serve God" in a new town.

Hmmmmm......

Anyway....there's a BILLION more pieces to this story but, suffice it to say, I tried to stay, I paid all her bills during the 3 years I lived elsewhere, left "the door open" at all times, I gave 139 and 1/2%. I gave a vow, in front of God, and 625 people, that I'd take care of her and love her for the rest of my life. When your in Laws support the fellow that isn't their own in the divorce, it speaks pretty loudly. It was an impossible battle. Eventually, I too was broken. I simply gave up after 10 years of absolute hell.

I don't think up till then, I even had 2 parking tickets....and certainly no history like my Mother in Laws.

Up to this point, I hadn't discovered any of my now current interests, possibly they're a derivative of the nightmare I went through, who knows but....I moved out hoping a little tough love would have an impact and, it did....but it was always all words....no deeds.

She used to get calls from all her friends on our wedding anniversary, birthday, every possible opportunity for me to have done something incredible for her, all asking her "so.....what amazing thing did _____ do for you THIS time????", because it was always something incredible.

She also used to say "Marriage is 90/10....you give 90 and expect 10".....I used to ask her "so when were you planning on giving your 10?"

When I moved out, she wrote me a looooooong letter explaining how she'd done nothing during our marriage to show me I was valued and "if it takes the rest of my life....I'm going to prove it to you"....and then of course....did absolutely nothing.

10 years....longest 30 fucking years of my life.

When she was younger, she always had someone in her life....she needed someone. Being a single girl in her eyes was being a failure.

6 months after we divorced, she married a fellow I later discovered was arrested for jacking off in his car in a Jr High school parking lot with his door open as a 13 year old girl passed by (he was 45 or so) at 7:15 in the morning.

A lot of things make a ton of sense now but, some people Greta, you just can't fix.....they can't be fixed....they're simply broken.

In my case, I don't think my ex was ever raped by her father...it came up after the revelation from my Mother in Law in our counseling sessions....but she insisted it never happened and, I believe she was telling the truth (although, frankly, knowing my ex father in law...I wouldn't put it past him for a second), but she was certainly affected by her Mom's opinion on sex....holy roller.....sex is what you do for your husband because it's a duty....that kind of thing.

Again, there's soooo much more to this story...I could write for days....but it's just more of the above, in different ways.

The best advice you can give this guy is..."get the fuck out"

He'll write a few checks over the next 20 years, but it'll be a 10th the cost to his psyche.

He deserves to be happy....and with this woman.....he will never be. Ever.

(And it'll get muuuuuch worse).


< Message edited by AtUrCervix -- 3/20/2016 6:10:38 AM >

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: A typical situation - 3/20/2016 6:40:06 AM   
dreamlady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I was very uncomfortable in suggesting counseling and medical, but some of you have given me useful ideas on how it should be presented without making her feel defensive about it.

Greta, I know that you're just being a caring friend, but you aren't even this woman's BFF or a female relative.
Of course she's going to get defensive about her husband's female friend butting into their business (from her PoV) and knowing intimate details about their marriage.

You seriously need to stay out of the picture. You shouldn't be "presenting" a single thing to her, unless she personally asks you directly for advice.
I don't know any woman who wouldn't see what her estranged husband is doing by confiding in you, as anything less than a betrayal.
Even if your friend were your own brother, no woman wants a "meddling" sister-in-law around.


quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix
Greta, this chic is broken. Got married because it was her time to do so....taught her whole life that's what she wanted.
<snip>
When she was younger, she always had someone in her life....she needed someone. Being a single girl in her eyes was being a failure.

^What he said.^

It isn't uncommon for a woman who lives at home (or who is struggling on her own) to get married to escape her family of origin as a way of asserting her independence by forming a new family unit.

Initially, her man is a knight in shining armor in her eyes, the one who comes to rescue her from her plight or angst, and to wisk her away.

Cervix, it sounds as if you tried your hardest to be Prince Charming, and I wish there were more guys like you. It seems as though you are a dying breed.

There are some people in this world, both men and women alike, who are just too damaged (or self-centered) to be in an adult relationship as a working, functional partnership of give and take, since they never give anywhere near as much as what they take from their partner. Like many a confirmed bachelor who is not fit to make a relationship commitment, people who habitually suck the well dry with their emotional neediness and unresolved issues (which they do nothing to confront in themselves via some form of psychotherapy) need to be left alone to live by themselves and not cause further heartache to others, unless and until they can get their acts together.


DreamLady

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Love is born with the pleasure of looking at each other, it is fed with the necessity of seeing each other, it is concluded with the impossibility of separation. ~José Marti

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RE: A typical situation - 3/20/2016 6:41:42 AM   
PeonForHer


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I have *zero* expertise in this. However, a suggestion: maybe the way back into a sex life for your friend's partner is first to rediscover her body (and mind) feeling good in a *non* sexual way. I'm thinking: exercise - especially of the 'hearty' sort. Some walking in the country, perhaps. Something more vigorous, if she can handle it. Take in some rays in a hot place, too.

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RE: A typical situation - 3/20/2016 7:51:58 AM   
AtUrCervix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I have *zero* expertise in this. However, a suggestion: maybe the way back into a sex life for your friend's partner is first to rediscover her body (and mind) feeling good in a *non* sexual way. I'm thinking: exercise - especially of the 'hearty' sort. Some walking in the country, perhaps. Something more vigorous, if she can handle it. Take in some rays in a hot place, too.


I agree with that.

But she should definitely (and he should definitely) wait until after they're divorced.


< Message edited by AtUrCervix -- 3/20/2016 8:27:31 AM >

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RE: A typical situation - 3/20/2016 11:59:52 AM   
dreamlady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
A friend of mine, married his soul mate. Outside of the bedroom, they are perfect twins, insync, he absolutely loves her.

This part has been bothering me since the start. This couple are not soul mates. Either you are over-idealizing their marriage based on your friend's description of it - where he isn't telling the whole story - or else your friend is in denial, in which case he is looking for a sympathetic ear, to get others to side with him in justifying his actions in separating from his wife, or he is flat out clueless. In other words, no matter how objective you try to be, you won't be able to be because all you have heard is one side of the story, his side. That means you don't have all the relevant facts, and you won't ever be able to know them, try as you might.

It's never only about the sex. Mutually satisfying sex is important. If either spouse is unhappy sexually, this will spill over into the rest of the marriage. Conversely, if either spouse is unhappy or dissatisfied in the marriage, then the couple's sex life will suffer.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
She has refused to allow him to hire help, sitter, or anything. He always wanted to hire help so she has ZERO excuse for being too tired to have a sex drive. His asked for date night once a week, and she always said she prefers to stay at home and spend time with kids and do things as a whole family. Now his trying to persuade her to do it at least once a month. This date night thingy! He said it's very difficult to get her to want to do any dating things also.

Soul mates do not behave in this manner toward one another. They can't get enough of one another -- they are a mutual admiration society unto themselves. I am taking this term quite literally, as in mates, not (platonic) kindred spirits. As such, I will daresay that mates who are not sexually compatible are not soul mates. They may be (platonic) kindred spirits and best friends, even twin flames who think alike and have a great deal in common (a brotherly/sisterly dynamic), but not soul mates.

What you and/or your friend has mistaken for a 'perfect match in every way except sexually' is coexistence without conflict (other than bedroom incompatibility). This is a common occurrence with non-confrontational personalities whose primary goal is to get along with one another, and not to rock the boat.

Given the many years that your friend has had an unsatisfactory sex life with his wife, the ineffectiveness of marital counseling, and the two of them not being able to get on board with "fixing" their marriage for the sake of keeping their family intact,
I am speculating that this is what actually took place, but please understand that I am not assigning blame. I don't care about being right, I only care about the truth and whether there is any chance for the couple to patch things up and make their marriage work, or whether their irreconcilable differences spell out divorce as the next logical step for each of them to find happiness and fulfillment with somebody else.

- Husband is dissatisfied sexually, wife is unresponsive and doesn't understand why he has anything to complain about.
- Husband cheats.
- Husbands infidelity gets discovered.
- Husband gets thrown out.
- Six months later, wife's heart has softened and she is willing to take him back for the sake of the children.
- Husband misses his children, but has now had a taste of freedom and has ambivalent feelings.
- Husband is conflicted. He doesn't want to lose out financially, but doesn't want to go back to his wife on her terms.


DreamLady

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Love is born with the pleasure of looking at each other, it is fed with the necessity of seeing each other, it is concluded with the impossibility of separation. ~José Marti

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RE: A typical situation - 3/20/2016 2:15:55 PM   
AtUrCervix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

She has refused to allow him to hire help, sitter, or anything. He always wanted to hire help so she has ZERO excuse for being too tired to have a sex drive.



It's impossible for this guy to win, or even break even.

He can't win....it's that simple.

(It absolutely doesn't get any more complicated than the above).

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RE: A typical situation - 3/20/2016 2:40:40 PM   
AtUrCervix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


It's never only about the sex.


DreamLady


Respectfully...I disagree.

Sometimes.....that's what's missing....touching....wanting....desire....feeling entwined...."as one".

What's that chemical created by having sex? Oxytocin or something.....bonds two people.

It's interesting....back in the late 50's....a drug called MMA (...it's ecstasy) was used in small doses to get couples to "attempt" to be intimate.

Quite effective (until it became illegal).

Anyone that's ever tried the drug (I did a few years after I was divorced....feeling a bit unsexy)....holy FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!

If you take that drug, you had BETTER be prepared to fuck ANYONE (and I do mean ANYONE) that is in your house because when those waves come on....holy jeeeeeezussssss....you could HATE your mate......you'll STILL want to fuck (everyone).

(Thank gawwwd I was with a woman at the time).

Yes...there are other factors (as to it being "only about sex") but....with that one thing (both have to want it)....singularly....mountains can be moved, and smooth pathways can be established....a starting point....an awakening for some....

And....Oxytocin, singularly....for a woman far more than a man, will bond/pair her better than anything and oddly enough.....

It won't occur in her body unless she has sex.

It can't.

And whoever she has sex with (it's all "in the moment"), that's when the chemicals are occurring in her body/ergo her mind...and that guy....whoever that guy is...that's who, for practical purposes....she "imprints" with.

Simply....sex.....even bad sex.....will help a woman imprint with her husband (sue me...I studied too much psychology and science but....science is kind of conclusive as to chemicals).

Ergo....not having sex.....continually....with the one guy she (probably) desires/wants to be/feels she should be closest to (and will desire all the more when he leaves....out of guilt more than likely...possibly shame....but not actual desire) is the only thing that can actually help her (if.....she wants to be married and in love with this man....if she doesn't....it'll only make her want him all the more when he leaves and.....it's the only thing in her case that can help her {if there's any way "in" at all}....if she doesn't have gigantic other barricades that are light years beyond any scope or understanding we might presume we have here).

It's funny....odd may be a better word.....the one thing that can bring her closer to her husband.....is the one thing....the only thing...she refuses his advances as to.

It's like someone digging a hole, sitting waaaaaay down inside of same....everyone's throwing her a rope, a ladder.....even a helicopter.....and................

.............she'd much rather keep digging.

Certain of her cause.

Determined to fail.

(in reply to dreamlady)
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RE: A typical situation - 3/20/2016 2:43:04 PM   
AtUrCervix


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I feel bad for the guy (and her as well).....neither is getting the best out of each other.....out of life.

No one is at fault here...there's a bigger story, as there was in mine no doubt but.....it's sad.

Everyone hurts.

No one wins.

(in reply to AtUrCervix)
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RE: A typical situation - 3/20/2016 4:17:22 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

It's impossible for this guy to win, or even break even.

Time to get a lawyer

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