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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
It's tough to argue for or against the methodology when we don't know that methodology. I guess what I'm not sure about is how personalized the scrutiny is. It could be possible that they see "Down's Syndrome" and automatically blackball the family.
All members of the family go thru medical testing from an immigration approved doctor and health clinic for blood/pee/diabetes/heart/ thyroid/tb/smallpox, testing, psych testing, xrays.
If the child is 13 and functions as a 3 year old, the method would be quite simple.
My daughter went through it at 2 and a half... Now she has no health issues, thank heavens, but they were damn thorough, even at a toddler level.
Downs is NOT an illness, It IS a disability.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/15/felipe-montoya-immigration_n_9471482.html
Apparently, the child went through psych evals and thyroid tests and came out just fine. Im sorry but a psych/medical eval showed a child of 13 functioning as a 3 year old is not "fine" He is and will be disabled his entire life. Its not his fault, its not his parents fault, but it certainly IS grounds for being disallowed immigration status.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/03/20/ontario-family-denied-residency-over-sons-down-syndrome.html

quote:


Montoya hoped the medical clearance would help finalize his application, but a letter from CIC told a different story.
“I have determined that your family member Nicolas Montoya is a person whose health condition might reasonably be expected to cause excessive demand on social services in Canada,” reads a letter sent to Montoya. “An excessive demand is a demand for which the anticipated costs exceed the average Canadian per capita health and social services costs, which is currently set at $6,387.”
The CIC letter references reports that Nicolas functions at the level of a three-year-old. It goes on to estimate that special education supports for Nicolas would cost between $20,000 and $25,000 a year, a finding Montoya questions.
He said CIC provided no detailed breakdown of how the estimate was reached, adding that his son did not require special accommodations because he joined a pre-existing community classroom in his local public school.

Now, honestly, you want ME to second guess what CIC says? Im an immigrant, Im not privvy to their findings, or facts, or fantasies.
If the family has been there for 3 years already, wouldn't they have some idea of how much this one kid has cost the taxpayers? Obviously, it wasn't much more of a burden on the school system as they already had the classroom, unless they had to hire another teacher/aide/etc. Health care costs should be traceable, too.
What makes you think that that HASNT been taken into account or weighed into their decision. We had to provide my ol mans taxes and we were checked into for the use of "social services"

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quote:

Wait. You're saying if Canada allowed any Tom, Dick, or Harry, to immigrate, it'll have an overwhelmed social welfare system because people with sick family members would be coming in for the freebies? And, you criticize conservative's views on illegal immigration?
IM sorry what part of

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It doesnt make it right, As a bleeding heart liberal it messes with my psyche.

can be seen as acceptance, or non critical? By the way, I dont believe I have posted much criticism of Actual illegal immigration, beyond the bigoted responses made by posters.
I do have a problem with illegal immigrants coming here and soaking up benefits paid for by the US taxpayer. Yet, people on the left (and you've been one of them) oppose conservatives' calls for stemming the tide of illegal immigration. please provide me the cites.....where I have distinctly opposed conservatives

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So its not JUST healthcare its Social services AND Healthcare.
WHy dont you look up the costs of providing healthcare and social housing/benefits to a child with a functional age of three and down syndrome????
BTW you can appeal a decision, and I believe felipe has until may 3rd to provide them with an explanation how they personally will cover the childs assosciated costs in the future.
THis from the president of the Down Syndrome Association of Toronto
Bhaskar Thiagarajan, the president of the Down Syndrome Association of Toronto, said the Montoya family is in an unfortunate situation that many others have gone through. Each year, several families contact his office seeking advice, but he said it's so difficult he can't even bring his own sister who has Down syndrome to Canada from India.
"I've been with this organization for almost 15 years, and I don't think I've seen a single case where they've been able to migrate and come to Canada," Thiagarajan told CBC News.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
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• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: Bhruic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: Baldrick
August 24th I had a kidney transplant at the University Hospital in London Ontario. I walked out of the hospital 7 days later and my hospital bill was zero. Meds were covered by my provincial drug plan... I walked out of the hospital wit $8000 worth of medications and a new operation kidney for no hospital bill

Free?
then how come they are rejecting the Downs Syndrome kid because it 'costs too much'? Seems you had better think about what you are saying, if it matters.

Because you are confusing Health Care with Immigration policy.
And health care still costs money in Canada... just not to the patient.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Give me a freaking break DS
You are asking questions that only immigration, and other agencies can tell you...I doubt they would even tell you, why dont you go ask a canadian immigration lawyer..
Didn't Montoya state that it was claimed his son would have an increased burden of over $20k/year on the school? And that was a big part of why they rejected the application? Now, had the school not already had a classroom, teachers, etc., I can see their point, but one has to wonder where they got that number, no?
I believe it was immigration that pointed it out....but hey, you are the one asking questions I have no way of knowing?
It wasnt just his schooling. It was his housing and other social service needs, special assistance, like transportation, once he becomes an adult, there is job training, possible long term residential care, short term care for when his parents or carers need a break, , this is just me thinking about my friend whose brother now has to live in residential housing becaus his sister cannot care for him(he is 50)
I dont know or care to know how much a teacher/classroom/ cost ratio, but it certainly isnt cheap.
WHy are you asking such technical/financial questions that obviously you expect me to know??? off hand???, or you want me doing your research for you??????

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Do you support or oppose the building of a wall across the southern border of the US in an effort to help stem the tide of illegal immigrants entering the US? No I dont support the building of a wall, however with some of your citizens making the news in the way they are( and I do realise it is a small proportion), Im pretty sure I would help pay for a wall across the canada border.... and get trump to pay for it.....

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It doesn't matter how much it costs, if the Montoya's are the ones footing the bill, does it? where do you get that from?

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Any idea how much it costs, cradle to grave, to care for a Down's syndrome person? Any idea how much it costs, cradle to grave, to care for the average person (with an average lifespan)?
When the cost of health care is part of the basis of denying an immigration policy, it's part of the discussion.
WHY dont YOU get the cost of cradle to grave costs for a downs child with a mental ability of three in the US(or Canada) Then we can discuss the immigration rules in both countries regarding immigration of a child with downs getting into the country....
lets play fair.

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And, just to let you know, you (or any other Canadian) shouldn't give a rat's ass what we Americans think of your health care system. Even the opinions of those that hold it in high esteem shouldn't matter. The reverse is also true, though.
I decide what I what I give a rats ass about, no one else.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, you are now big upping Obamacare which forbade limits?

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/


Seems like a rather nothing to compare.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Thats why I dont do intelligible for people who are not. We do not have limits due to Obamacare.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
But my post said nothing about that - it merely said that claims that socialized medicine are more effective are fraudulent, when you measure on things that actually measure efficacy of care.

Ie., If you get health care in the US your outcome is, on average, better than if you get healthcare in canada.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Baldrick
August 24th I had a kidney transplant at the University Hospital in London Ontario. I walked out of the hospital 7 days later and my hospital bill was zero. Meds were covered by my provincial drug plan... I walked out of the hospital wit $8000 worth of medications and a new operation kidney for no hospital bill

Free?
then how come they are rejecting the Downs Syndrome kid because it 'costs too much'? Seems you had better think about what you are saying, if it matters.

Because you are confusing Health Care with Immigration policy.
And health care still costs money in Canada... just not to the patient.

When the cost of health care is part of the basis of denying an immigration policy, it's part of the discussion.

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ORIGINAL: Bhruic

I already said that Canadians don't care what Americans think of our system... but we are at liberty to talk about it if it is going to be the subject of conversation. Perhaps we feel an obligation to try and convince Americans for their own sake, as the U.S. is pretty much the only first world country that doesn't have universal health care.... but in the end, we really don't care what you do.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

It is telling to compare the views of posters with the health system operative in their country. Thus we find that Americans posting here are split, roughly equally split between proponents of a US-style market driven healthcare and proponents of universal healthcare systems aka socialised medicine.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

I already said that Canadians don't care what Americans think of our system... but we are at liberty to talk about it if it is going to be the subject of conversation. Perhaps we feel an obligation to try and convince Americans for their own sake, as the U.S. is pretty much the only first world country that doesn't have universal health care.... but in the end, we really don't care what you do.

but they were right there and first to get on the bandwagon to push their commie health care system when ohaha n company was passing bills to FORCE americans to buy it.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
But my post said nothing about that - it merely said that claims that socialized medicine are more effective are fraudulent, when you measure on things that actually measure efficacy of care.

Ie., If you get health care in the US your outcome is, on average, better than if you get healthcare in canada.

It would appear that your statement is again untrue Phydeaux.

WHO figures prove your premise wrong.
...Bloomberg finds "the U.S. spends the most on health care on a relative cost basis with the worst outcome" and notes Cubans live longer than Americans, but Americans pay more than fourteen times as much for less effective health care. The Commonwealth Fund ranked seven developed countries on health care, the US ranked lowest(AU, CA, DE, NL, NZ, UK , US)
In these rankings, Canada managed #30 with the US ranked #31.
The UK with one of the most socialized healthcare ranked #18.

The OECD also doesn't agree with you either.

The Guardian states: Study by Washington-based foundation puts healthcare provision in the US at the bottom of its report.
It goes on to say: The NHS has been declared the best healthcare system by an international panel of experts who rated its care superior to countries which spend far more on health.

The same study also castigated healthcare provision in the US as the worst of the 11 countries it looked at. Despite putting the most money into health, America denies care to many patients in need because they do not have health insurance and is also the poorest at saving the lives of people who fall ill, it found.

I couldn't find anything that supports your posit.