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RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 1:49:20 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

The scientific community is in consensus around the world...


is utterly mind-boggling. its as if he cannot read or understand reality.




Yeah, that one bugs me too. The very idea that science can ever be settled or that consensus matters. No matter how much I point out that prior to Mr Colombus it was 'settled' that the world was flat. Or that newton was right. Or that the earth was the center of the universe.

It .. just.. doesn't .. matter.

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RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 1:50:11 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Could be... I'll bet even the Pope has doubts... but with your last breath you have nothing but oblivion to look forward to... I on the other hand have to shit in my pants worrying about heaven or hell...lol

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 1:56:24 PM   
ifmaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

lol... will when the day comes and you and I stand before our Lord...


Your lord.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
tell him you said fuck the poor let them eat dirt when your charity was not enough... Of course you will have a little extra money to try and bribe your way in. Myself... I've already more than enough sin... I don't need to add selfish greed to it.

Butch


Is it charity or theft if money is forcibly taken?

Perhaps you can take poor children for a ride on your high horse.

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RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 1:57:54 PM   
Phydeaux


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Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Could be... I'll bet even the Pope has doubts... but with your last breath you have nothing but oblivion to look forward to... I on the other hand have to shit in my pants worrying about heaven or hell...lol

Butch


I hope not worry butch.

Regarding charity and you being ok to support the government using tax money for charity.

Government taxes does not absolve you the personal obligation to charity. But more importantly, if we make christian charity a function of government - can we complain if satanic 'charity' becomes a function of government.

The founders knew it arightly when they said that government was inherently evil - but a necessary evil. But since it was necessary, let it be kept as small as possible.

Much evil has been done - for the sake of the children. In other words - even the devil can quote scripture. Appealing to our charitable natures has resulted in a government that is no longer our servant - and very much our master.

Enlarged first for charity, alternately for 'progress' - the march to ever larger government continues.

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RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 2:09:56 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

Perhaps you can take poor children for a ride on your high horse



I will and we can have a picnic on your tax dollar... Thanks...

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 2:21:35 PM   
ifmaz


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Joined: 7/22/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Perhaps you can take poor children for a ride on your high horse



I will and we can have a picnic on your tax dollar... Thanks...

Butch


I'm not sure what you're doing would count as charity while what I'm being forced to do would. Do let us know how that works out for you as I hear all the good music will be down there.

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RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 2:26:07 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Please don't tell me you are cheap too...I do understand the worry of inefficiency and graft... I also understand the desire to keep the government small... But to me the government has two duties that individual states cannot do on their own. The first is National defense... the second is to promote our national welfare.

Charity is not exclusive to religion or the religious and all states are not prosperous enough to care for their disabled and hungry. It is the duty of our government to supply the needed aid to its citizens....as long as we the citizens are willing to contribute. Right now at least the majority is willing. You my friend are in the minority. Now this may change I hope not but it may.

I believe it is wise to carry this way of thinking outside of our borders, if we can afford it. Right now again your way of thinking is in the minority. Why... because we are a majority Christian nation and we want to reduce the suffering of our fellow man. There are somethings more important than your tax burden. I can find many ways to reduce our tax burden or shift it to outright pay for the programs we are discussing here. If you must reduce your taxes don't you think there are many other programs that should be examined first?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 227
RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 2:28:06 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Sure you don't want to come with us on the picnic... prime rib you know.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to ifmaz)
Profile   Post #: 228
RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 2:48:27 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		since this seems to have been ignored but is nevertheless germane to the conversation, i'll share it again:

though this was said in reference to a specific instance, it has nevertheless become a general principle. " each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for god loves a cheerful giver." 2 Corinthians 9:7

butch, you'll really have to show how government does a better job of giving/caring for people who are really in need, as opposed to friends, families, neighbors, charities and the church.

also, I trust you know that people's interpretation of the "general welfare" of the nation varies wildly? how does one solve that persnickety problem?

I find the most valuable thing to be freedom and whatever best promotes that is most in keeping with the general welfare of the country.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 4/16/2016 2:55:43 PM >

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RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 3:05:31 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		bounty we do... no charity or group of charities can do what we are doing on a national level.. there is just not the structure in a private charity. But again you are in the minority thinking... the time may come when you can preach to me majority thinking... but until then i am going to ride this horse home.... after the picnic that is...

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/16/2016 3:06:06 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 230
RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 3:14:04 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		but your answer doesn't really answer the question---that it takes place on a national level is a given, because the government has a nationwide structure yes. but so what?

families, friends, neighbors, charities, churches, private enterprises, etc. dont need a national structure. they are closer to the problem and as a result, can be more effective in meeting needs.

for instance, every community ive ever been a part of has a food pantry situated in a church. that happens because individual churches decide to do it, and it happens all over the country. every person in need has a friend, neighbor, family, or employer. the small city i grew up has two homeless shelters that are run by the community. the local university's lay mission runs a daily soup kitchen. there's an industry in town also that employs developmentally disabled adults. every year "Christmas in april" (although we do it in june) goes around and fixes houses belonging to low income people. ive got a good friend who collects students and other volunteers and they've put in countless wheelchair ramps at peoples houses all over the county.

I remember reading about the tornado in Joplin a handful of years ago, how exactly what im talking about was more efficacious in meeting the needs of the people there than the government was.

I think more importantly, when we're talking about government "charity" or "safety net" or "welfare" or whatever it is we're talking about---given how impersonal it is, and how there is no expectation for responsibility on the behalf of the recipient, how does government succeed in the charitable/aid business without degrading the spirit of those to whom it gives.

and from a christian perspective, given the verse from 2 Corinthians, how is giving under "compulsion" something we should be about when we see a need to be met?

more personally, wouldn't you rather have say an extra five hundred dollars of your own money back so that you can give it to the places/people you see are most in need? or perhaps be able to work less throughout the year because you were able to make ends meet by keeping more of your own money, thereby freeing you up some so that you could donate your time a bit more easily?

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 4/16/2016 3:50:18 PM >

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RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 3:45:53 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

dont need a national structure


Yes they most certainly do... How does your charity propose to move 4 million tons? The fact is that charity today does not fill the demand... even in our country let alone overseas. If charities were filling the need or could fill it there would be no need for our welfare or food programs... FACT they cannot and have not filled that need.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 232
RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 3:50:15 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

but your answer doesn't really answer the question---that it takes place on a national level is a given, because the government has a nationwide structure yes. but so what?

families, friends, neighbors, charities, churches, private enterprises, etc. dont need a national structure. they are closer to the problem and as a result, can be more effective in meeting needs.

for instance, every community ive ever been a part of has a food pantry situated in a church. that happens because individual churches decide to do it, and it happens all over the country. every person in need has a friend, neighbor, family, or employer. the small city i grew up has two homeless shelters that are run by the community. the local university's lay mission runs a daily soup kitchen. there's an industry in town also that employs developmentally disabled adults. every year "Christmas in april" (although we do it in june) goes around and fixes houses belonging to low income people. ive got a good friend who collects students and other volunteers and they've put in countless wheelchair ramps at peoples houses all over the county.

I remember reading about the tornado in Joplin a handful of years ago, how exactly what im talking about was more efficacious in meeting the needs of the people there than the government was.

I think more importantly, when we're talking about government "charity" or "safety net" or "welfare" or whatever it is we're talking about---given how impersonal it is, and how there is no expectation for responsibility on the behalf of the recipient, how does government succeed in the charitable/aid business without degrading the spirit of those to whom it gives.

and from a christian perspective, given the verse from 2 Corinthians, how is giving under "compulsion" something we should be about when we see a need to be met?



They never have, do not now, and never will, meet the needs. this is more free-market pablum and asswipe. not from the christian perspective, from pauls perspective, the hebrew hammer, what did christ say?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 3:54:26 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

dont need a national structure


Yes they most certainly do... How does your charity propose to move 4 million tons? The fact is that charity today does not fill the demand... even in our country let alone overseas. If charities were filling the need or could fill it there would be no need for our welfare or food programs... FACT they cannot and have not filled that need.

Butch


you'll have to be a little more specific. who is getting 4 million tons of what, where?

no, "there will always be poor"---so the notion of charity/etc not meeting the need therefore government having to step in, doesn't work.

your skipping out on answering some of the essential questions ive asked:

I think more importantly, when we're talking about government "charity" or "safety net" or "welfare" or whatever it is we're talking about---given how impersonal it is, and how there is no expectation for responsibility on the behalf of the recipient, how does government succeed in the charitable/aid business without degrading the spirit of those to whom it gives.

and from a christian perspective, given the verse from 2 Corinthians, how is giving under "compulsion" something we should be about when we see a need to be met?

more personally, wouldn't you rather have say an extra five hundred dollars of your own money back so that you can give it to the places/people you see are most in need? or perhaps be able to work less throughout the year because you were able to make ends meet by keeping more of your own money, thereby freeing you up some so that you could donate your time a bit more easily?




< Message edited by bounty44 -- 4/16/2016 3:59:54 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 234
RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 3:59:07 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		The food program of the US moved 4,000,000 metric tons of food to the desperately hungry overseas last year... what charity can do that? Here in the US charities do not keep up with the demand to feed the hungry... Please don't tell me you are of the opinion that the majority of those on aid are lazy and stealing money out of your pocket.

You must also remember your tax dollars are also moving charity donations overseas... do you want to stop that too?

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/16/2016 4:17:27 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 235
RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 4:09:49 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		bounty changing the direction a little...would your thinking change if your home were washed into the sea by a hurricane… if destroyed by an earthquake…burned to the ground by a wildfire… blown over two counties by a tornado? Do you think your state and charities can provide you food clothing shelter and rebuilding money? These outlays of tax money are what our government is for… this includes care of the elderly and infirm and hungry.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 236
RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 4:53:56 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


Yeah, that one bugs me too. The very idea that science can ever be settled or that consensus matters. No matter how much I point out that prior to Mr Colombus it was 'settled' that the world was flat.

Once again you prove that it is possible to type while your head is up your ass.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth

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RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 4:56:37 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: kdsub

Could be... I'll bet even the Pope has doubts...
but with your last breath you have nothing but oblivion to look forward to...


Wanna grab a logic check bud...when I am dead I am not looking foreward to anything...I am dead.



I on the other hand have to shit in my pants worrying about heaven or hell...lol

So you choose to buy a little fire insurance

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RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 5:00:13 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

The founders knew it arightly when they said that government was inherently evil - but a necessary evil.

Where do you get this moronic drivel...the founders (plural) did not say this.


But since it was necessary, let it be kept as small as possible.

Article 1 section 8 says you are full of shit as usual.

Much evil has been done - for the sake of the children. In other words - even the devil can quote scripture. Appealing to our charitable natures has resulted in a government that is no longer our servant - and very much our master.

So you are saying that there is no election process and it is all a sham???

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RE: Damn Welfare Queens! - 4/16/2016 5:05:12 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: bounty44

since this seems to have been ignored but is nevertheless germane to the conversation, i'll share it again:

though this was said in reference to a specific instance, it has nevertheless become a general principle. " each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for god loves a cheerful giver." 2 Corinthians 9:7

butch, you'll really have to show how government does a better job of giving/caring for people who are really in need, as opposed to friends, families, neighbors, charities and the church.

Suppose you start with a history book written for someone beyond the fifth grade. The history of amerika is repleat with the religious punks ignoring the poor.

also, I trust you know that people's interpretation of the "general welfare" of the nation varies wildly? how does one solve that persnickety problem?

Isn't that what the constitution says is the job of congres? You claim to be a college boy and you do not seem to have read the constitution.

I find the most valuable thing to be freedom and whatever best promotes that is most in keeping with the general welfare of the country.


Perhaps you might define what you mean by freedom?

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 240
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