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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/8/2016 3:14:22 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

You're not one of the Sanders supporters who's planning to vote for Flump over Clinton, then?


I've seen this a lot from Sanders supporters.

I have to admit it confuses me. Are they saying Clinton is worse than Trump? Or are they just looking to watch the world burn?


I've seen a lot of this all over Facebook. The electoral system structures it that way and encourages it: one Dem candidate or another has to win the primary ... so, Sanders-supporters inevitably end up attacking Clinton, and Clinton-supporters inevitably end up attacking Sanders. It's worse even than our own system. It seems almost *designed* such that the majority will not only be against the eventual President ... they will have acquired a thoroughgoing animosity towards that President.

Also in the USA, it seems, being seen as 'non-establishment' means something way more now than it ever has in the recent past. Both Sanders and Trump have that vibe going for them. Clinton does not ... ironically, given that she's the first female ever to get this far.

In so many ways this particular election, it seems to me, is a perfect storm of ironies.


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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/8/2016 4:46:58 PM   
smartsub10


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: smartsub10


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Yeah, Trump will go down in flames in the general election.

I am not so certain. I really hope so, but I am not willing to state it as an absolute.

Clinton is a poor candidate. Trump could win this.

Dubious that Flump is a better candidate than Clinton, myself.

. . . but he has a national organization behind him who will vote lock step for any candidate with an R.


Yep, but this year...not quite 100%. The dems will however, still have to get to the polls for HRC to win. I think the clincher just might be given Trump being her opponent, women of all political stripes now...want a 1st woman pres.


So....when it comes to presidential qualifications it all boils down to testicles vs. ovaries?

Only because these two candidates are running on "I'm a woman" and "I've got balls."

And because they convinced people to vote for them based on that.


I really can't argue against that logic.

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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/8/2016 5:43:38 PM   
Greta75


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OP,

I don't know what tyranny are you talking about. And Mexican judge case is not racism at all.
Mexican Judge is a member of La Raza which direct translation means THE Race! You can't get more Race Pride than that.

He has conflict of interest. And worst of all, people who are offended are denying his Mexican heritage, keep claiming his American, AS IF his not Mexican. The dude has Mexican heritage. I have Chinese heritage. Even though I was not born in China. If I was born in the US, I am still first and foremost a CHINESE! And I'm proud to be Chinese. Why the hell people think the judge should be ashamed of his Mexican roots? To claim it's racism is putting a negative connotation to being a Mexican and all the real racists are all you guys degrading the word "Mexican".

Trump statements has no derogatory words towards the word "Mexican", but simply saying there are conflict of interests because he plans to put a wall between Mexico and America to regulate immigration.

And stop disrespecting democracy. Trump won fair and square in the Republican Primaries. People voted for him. RNC needs to fall inline and respect democracy and people's choice.

I can't say the same for cheating Hillary. Because of Dem's stupid super delegates system.

If Hillary wants to fight fairly to see who is the real winner, do away with super delegates.

Oh by the way, we also need to come to a conclusion, Is Mexican a race or not? I don't think Libs even consider Mexican a race, but they always use "racism" even when it does not involve race issues AT ALL, which is like the most illogical Lib stance ever!


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/8/2016 5:51:52 PM >

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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/8/2016 6:03:17 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Greta, from where I am standing, trump never won anything fair and square in his life. The only place he lies straight is in bed and even then I've got my doubts. No, I am not saying hrc is any better or worse and the election there is going to resemble the one we are having in JULY here ( only bigger, noisier and glitzier).......................it will be a case of most people NOT voting for the best candidate but actually voting for the lesser of the two weevils...................The great surprise in Australia at the moment though is that there seems to be a 15% swing towards the greens, so we may end up with a hung parliament with the greens and independents holding the balance of power. May the gods forbid that that should happen.

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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/8/2016 6:13:18 PM   
vincentML


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Greta!

quote:

Mexican Judge is a member of La Raza which direct translation means THE Race! You can't get more Race Pride than that.
Race pride is not racism. Denigration and exclusion are racism. Saying a judge is biased because of his ethnic descent is racism pure and simple. You seem to be totally clueless about my country's long and unsparing history of racial exploitation and slander. Check out Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech: where no man is judged by the color of his skin.

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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/8/2016 8:12:17 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

Greta, from where I am standing, trump never won anything fair and square in his life. The only place he lies straight is in bed and even then I've got my doubts. No, I am not saying hrc is any better or worse and the election there is going to resemble the one we are having in JULY here ( only bigger, noisier and glitzier).......................it will be a case of most people NOT voting for the best candidate but actually voting for the lesser of the two weevils...................The great surprise in Australia at the moment though is that there seems to be a 15% swing towards the greens, so we may end up with a hung parliament with the greens and independents holding the balance of power. May the gods forbid that that should happen.

How has he not won this election fair and square? He had a -2% chance of winning when he first started. For him to get where he is now, he strategised and had to do it in a super politically incorrect way to get attention and win votes. His strategy worked. He became the nominee, beating all the experienced politicians. Everything unfolded openly infront of the world, his tactics and strategies that many experts claim it would never work! Once he got pass insulting McCain POW which with disbelief that he could still sail through with that, it's been full steam ahead. The man has a very good gut and feel for things. If he had listened to political experts and used political correct strategies, he would still be -2% right now. He would be just another politician telling you what you want to hear.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/8/2016 8:14:24 PM >

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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/8/2016 8:15:22 PM   
Dvr22999874


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What election has he won ? He MAY have won the rep nomination but he has won no elections as yet and I really hope to hell he never does. There again, I am also hoping Clinton doesn't, so where does that leave the situation ?

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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/8/2016 8:15:22 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Greta!

quote:

Mexican Judge is a member of La Raza which direct translation means THE Race! You can't get more Race Pride than that.
Race pride is not racism. Denigration and exclusion are racism. Saying a judge is biased because of his ethnic descent is racism pure and simple. You seem to be totally clueless about my country's long and unsparing history of racial exploitation and slander. Check out Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech: where no man is judged by the color of his skin.

Yes but all the news media is saying that calling a judge a Mexican is racist, because his not a Mexican but an American. WTF? All the libs and news media has officially turn "Mexican" into a racial slur! He IS a Mexican!
I cannot imagine a day where someone calling me a Chinese is unacceptable. Because I am a Chinese! I can be born in Africa and I am STILL a Chinese! And from what I understand, the judge himself refers to himself as a Mexican American, and not just an American.

I believe he has not charge Trump for contempt of court yet, because he is proudly Mexican and everyone should STOP telling the judge to be ashame of his Mexican roots.

I wouldn't put a black judge to judge KKK crimes, would you? Do you think that would be fair?
Like I wouldn't put a Jew to judge Nazis Crimes.

Because there is an emotional element and I don't think the judge can be objective. They are judging someone who has done something negative to their own people.

If there is any possibility of any element of unfairness. Due to personal association. Race is one of them. The judge should be changed so there is no room for doubts of unfairness in ruling. You know what, they should put a black judge on Trump University! No conflict!

I mean it's totally questionable to me, all the witnesses that are complaining against Trump University, Trump has written statements and even video statements of them, praising Trump University. WTF? These people? IF they were soooo aggrieve, why they do that?

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/8/2016 8:24:27 PM >

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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/8/2016 8:23:49 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Greta!

quote:

Mexican Judge is a member of La Raza which direct translation means THE Race! You can't get more Race Pride than that.
Race pride is not racism. Denigration and exclusion are racism. Saying a judge is biased because of his ethnic descent is racism pure and simple. You seem to be totally clueless about my country's long and unsparing history of racial exploitation and slander. Check out Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech: where no man is judged by the color of his skin.

Yes but all the news media is saying that calling a judge a Mexican is racist, because his not a Mexican but an American. WTF? All the libs and news media has officially turn "Mexican" into a racial slur! He IS a Mexican!
I cannot imagine a day where someone calling me a Chinese is unacceptable. Because I am a Chinese! I can be born in Africa and I am STILL a Chinese! And from what I understand, the judge himself refers to himself as a Mexican American, and not just an American.

I believe he has not charge Trump for contempt of court yet, because he is proudly Mexican and everyone should STOP telling the judge to be ashame of his Mexican roots.

I wouldn't put a black judge to judge KKK crimes, would you? Do you think that would be fair?
Like I wouldn't put a Jew to judge Nazis Crimes.

If there is any possibility of any element of unfairness. Due to personal association. Race is one of them. The judge should be changed so there is no room for doubts of unfairness in ruling.

I mean it's totally questionable to me, all the witnesses that are complaining against Trump University, Trump has written statements and even video statements of them, praising Trump University. WTF? These people? IF they were soooo aggrieve, why they do that?

It's my understanding the judge was born in Indiana and is not a member of La Raza. As far as a black judging a KKK member and a Jew judging Nazis...yes !!

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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/8/2016 8:26:07 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
It's my understanding the judge was born in Indiana and is not a member of La Raza.

If you don't want to acknowledge his La Raza affliation, how about his Hispanic National Bar Association?
http://us4.campaign-archive2.com/?u=df9a27c10b6d6ba38ba001440&id=f8a4a02241&e=cd8fc1ccd9%0A

The HNBA calls for a boycott of all of Trump business ventures, including golf courses, hotels, and restaurants. We salute NBC/Universal, Univision and Macy’s for ending their association with Trump, and we join them in standing up against bigotry and racist rhetoric. Other businesses and corporations should follow the lead of NBC/Universal, Univision and Macy’s and take similar actions against Donald Trump’s business interests. We can and will make a difference.

Super conflict of interest!

quote:

As far as a black judging a KKK member and a Jew judging Nazis...yes !!

If you want justice to be based on emotions. Yes!
If you want objective justice, I'd say that is a BIG no no!


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/8/2016 8:33:37 PM >

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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/8/2016 8:42:33 PM   
Greta75


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Also, we need to put his non-association with La Raza to rest, because he himself filled up a compulsory questionnaire about his associations, when he was appointed as Judicial Judge, listing the San Diego La Raza in it, as well as the HNBA. And his in the committee for La Raza scholarship event.
Refer to last page.

And it gets juicier. The San-Diego based law firm representing the plaintiffs in the Trump University case, Robbins Geller Rudman & Dowd, was listed as a sponsor of the event. Refer to Pg 6.

This is soooooo conflict of interest beyond conflict of interest! I love how left media is more interested in falsely screaming racism than actually care about objective justice.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/8/2016 8:55:02 PM >

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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/8/2016 8:52:26 PM   
Termyn8or


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"...women of all political stripes now...want a 1st woman pres. ..."

I can just about guarantee they will regret it.

But go right ahead.

T^T

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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/8/2016 9:08:42 PM   
Lucylastic


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Then why doesnt the big twat do something legal about it, Why HASNT he made a legal complaint, WHY haven't his amazing lawyers put in arguments to get him recused from the case??

If he had a leg to stand on, he would be suing the judge right now.
He isnt
Its all words
His
His OWN Lawyer says the judge is doing his job.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/actions-speak-louder-than-trump-his-own-lawyer-said-the-judge-is-doing-his-job-in-trump-u-case-224338852.html
Just three weeks before Donald Trump triggered a national firestorm over his claims that U.S. Judge Gonzalo Curiel was biased against him because of his Mexican heritage, his lead lawyer in the Trump University case praised Curiel for a “sound decision” and said he had no plans to file a motion for him to be recused.

“The judge is doing his job,” said Daniel Petrocelli, shaking his head, when asked if planned to seek Curiel’s recusal. “We’re not seeking to recuse the judge.”

The comments by Petrocelli, who heads the defense team for the presumptive Republican nominee, were made to reporters outside the federal courthouse in San Diego on May 6 (and videotaped by Yahoo News) after a key pre-trial hearing on the Trump University case. They got no national media attention at the time.

But they could now undercut Trump’s repeated assertions that Curiel, who was born in Indiana, had an “absolute conflict” because he is “Mexican” and should therefore disqualify himself. Legal experts across the political spectrum and Republican Party leaders including House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell have denounced Trump’s slurs on Curiel’s impartiality.

“I’ve been treated very unfairly by the judge,” Trump told CNN’s Jake Tapper last Friday. “This judge is of Mexican heritage. I’m building a wall. … I think he should recuse himself.”

Petrocelli, a renowned civil litigator who has spearheaded Trump’s defense in the Trump University case, praised Curiel after the May 6 hearing and for good reason: The judge had arguably done Trump a huge favor. The plaintiffs in the case, who claim they were defrauded out of tens of thousands of dollars they paid for Trump University seminars they say were largely worthless, had pushed for a trial date this summer in the 6-year-old case — right after the Republican Party convention. “Justice delayed is justice denied,” Jason Forge, one of the plaintiff’s lawyers, had argued to Curiel that day. “There are people who are still paying off their debts for the money they paid to Trump University.”

But Curiel rejected that argument and pushed the trial back to Nov. 28 so as not to interfere with Trump’s campaign for president. It was no small break for the presumptive GOP candidate, since he is the lead defendant in the case and would likely be the chief witness in a trial that is expected to last at least a month.

Although Petrocelli had sought a trial date in February — by which time Trump, if he wins the election, would actually be president — he praised Curiel’s ruling that day. “We’re pleased that this case is not going to trial [while] Mr. Trump is preparing for the presidential election,” he told reporters outside the courtroom. “We think that’s a sound decision by the court.”

Later, when rejecting the idea of a recusal motion against Curiel, Petrocelli added: “I think the court today did a good job of trying to balance out competing interests.”

Petrocelli declined to comment to Yahoo News Monday on his opinion of Curiel. And despite his comments last month, he and Trump have other rulings by Curiel to object to, notably his denial last November of a motion by Trump to dismiss the case on summary judgment (Curiel had concluded there were “genuine issues of material fact” to resolve about Trump University) and his decision last March to allow Tarla Makaeff, the lead plaintiff in the class-action case, to drop out and be replaced by another plaintiff. (Makaeff had said she was unable to continue because of pressing health problems. At the request of Trump’s lawyers, Curiel then reviewed her health records and concurred.)

But legal experts say that Petrocelli would have little to no chance of prevailing in a legal motion to recuse Curiel because of perceived bias due to his ethnic background — a major reason he has pointedly failed to file such a motion. “It would have zero legal merit,” said Stephen Gillers, a New York University law professor who specializes in legal ethics. “A judge’s ethnicity, gender and race is never a grounds for recusal. It’s quite clear. A lawyer would not make that motion without fear of being sanctioned.”


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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/8/2016 9:09:54 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"...women of all political stripes now...want a 1st woman pres. ..."

I can just about guarantee they will regret it.

But go right ahead.

T^T

Hillary did sell her husband, that they will be getting Bill back as economical advisor and his vast amount of experience if she was President. Two in one!

Obama also seek Bill's political advice. So I guess, it won't be the end of the world. Just another 4 years of the same old thing.


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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/8/2016 11:38:55 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Also, we need to put his non-association with La Raza to rest, because he himself filled up a compulsory questionnaire about his associations, when he was appointed as Judicial Judge, listing the San Diego La Raza in it, as well as the HNBA. And his in the committee for La Raza scholarship event.
Refer to last page.

And it gets juicier. The San-Diego based law firm representing the plaintiffs in the Trump University case, Robbins Geller Rudman & Dowd, was listed as a sponsor of the event. Refer to Pg 6.

This is soooooo conflict of interest beyond conflict of interest! I love how left media is more interested in falsely screaming racism than actually care about objective justice.

Having been nominated and approved as a federal judge, he is already qualified for and deserving of, any case and...without prejudice. Reaction to Trumps obviously articulated bigotry by such organizations, does not present him with any conflict of interest.

And in fact to suggest the same, is in fact exhibiting the very bigotry you exclaim. Race didn't even enter the picture until Trump did it...and now you.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 6/8/2016 11:40:40 PM >


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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/9/2016 12:01:26 AM   
DaddySatyr


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Some elements of La Raza could be considered racist. The organization has a long history of desire for supremacy.

That the law firm, a staunch anti-Trump association for at least six years, has a friendly "personal" relationship with the judge, hearing the case is a bit ... troubling. After all, would anyone deny that a gay murder suspect might not get a fair trial from a judge that had been to a few Westboro Baptist Church ice cream socials (Most of the family that started Westboro were lawyers, I believe)?



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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/9/2016 12:28:38 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Then why doesnt the big twat do something legal about it, Why HASNT he made a legal complaint, WHY haven't his amazing lawyers put in arguments to get him recused from the case??


Looking at the injustice of the rape case. Another judge that needs to be changed due to biastism.
Why would I trust justice to be served in Trump's case? I have showed evidence that the judge and the lawyers prosecuting Trump University are friendlies with each other outside of the court room, both involved in La Raza. On top of that the law firm prosecuting Trump has made hundreds of thousands of donation to Hillary.
Going by what's actual law in the US, maybe that's not a strong enough case to kick out this judge! But it doesn't mean that it is RIGHT! And it doesn't mean there is no biastism happening. This just means, the law is not strong enough to ensure a fair case and a fair outcome. Exactly like the rape case situation!

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/9/2016 12:29:43 AM >

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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/9/2016 12:34:59 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Having been nominated and approved as a federal judge, he is already qualified for and deserving of, any case and...without prejudice.

Unless there is personal conflict of interest in certain cases. The law does allow disqualification of judge if there is personal conflict of interest.
The problem is, the lines are not super clear on what are solid grounds of conflict.

(a) Any justice, judge, or magistrate judge of the United States shall disqualify himself in any proceeding in which his impartiality might reasonably be questioned.
(b) He shall also disqualify himself in the following circumstances:
(1) Where he has a personal bias or prejudice concerning a party, or personal knowledge of disputed evidentiary facts concerning the proceeding;

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/455

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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/9/2016 12:47:18 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
You're not one of the Sanders supporters who's planning to vote for Flump over Clinton, then?

I've seen this a lot from Sanders supporters.
I have to admit it confuses me. Are they saying Clinton is worse than Trump? Or are they just looking to watch the world burn?


Maybe that's what "Feel the Bern!" really meant?

I think those people are looking for a non-establishment candidate, to be honest. Trump is definitely not GOP establishment, while Hillary is definitely Democrat establishment. Hell, I think the main reason Trump is getting as much support as he is is because he's not establishment. While they'd prefer to support a non-establishment candidate from the Democrats, they'd rather support a crappy non-establishment candidate from the opposite party than an establishment candidate from their own party.



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What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
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  • Limited Government
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RE: The Lies and Bullshit to Hide Tyranny - 6/9/2016 1:03:58 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246
What seems to be getting lost in this "discussion" of the judge's action and Trump's reaction is:
The judge made a ruling to release certain documents including the marketing and training materials for Trump University, materials which had been sealed.
If Trump disagrees with that ruling, why doesn't he challenge the legality of the judge's decision?
Trump obviously disagrees with the decision, but by calling the judge biased and asking him to recuse himself, Trump is asking for a legal action he is not entitled to, unless Trump can prove a history of bias by this judge.
If Trump really thinks the ruling is wrong, he should be questioning the legality of the judge's decision.


That's not the only ruling that Trump is questioning. From the article:
    quote:

    Former student Tarla Makaeff, the original plaintiff in the litigation, not only completed multiple surveys rating Trump University’s three-day seminar “excellent” in every category, but also praised Trump University’s mentorship program in a glowing 5 plus minute video testimonial. When asked “how could Trump University help to meet [her] goals”, she simply stated “[c]ontinue to offer great classes.” Once the plaintiffs’ lawyers realized how disastrous a witness she was, they asked to have her removed from the case. Over my lawyers’ objections, the judge granted the plaintiffs’ motion, but allowed the case to continue.


I can see Trump's point about this action.

Have you ever been called into a courtroom as a potential juror? The prosecuting and defending attorneys will look for any shred of possibility that a potential jurist might be biased against his/her side of the case. If a potential jurist has a shred of bias, he or she will almost guaranteed be rejected by either the prosecution or the defense.

There there is this little nugget (bold mine):
    Whether born from experience or inherent physiological or cultural differences, our gender and national origins may and will make a difference in our judging.
    - Sonia Sotomayor


Now, none of this shows that Curiel is or will be biased against Trump (okay, this might actual lead Curiel to be biased against Trump, but that would be because Trump is an asshat, and not because Curiel is of Mexican descent).

Do Trump and/or his lawyers have the right to question the impartiality of the judge before the case is decided?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to sloguy02246)
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