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RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 3:41:41 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		FR

I must admit, coming from where I do, a lakeside is where I'd go to stop, sit, admire the scenery and let some peace wash over me. It's second nature. I'd have to be reminded more than once, I reckon, not to treat lakes in certain parts of Florida that way. *Shudder*.

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RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 3:43:45 AM   
Shandirra


Posts: 196
Joined: 11/28/2007
From: NYC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I totally disagree, because places like Disney, they are responsible for making sure the place is safe for kids to roam. Nobody goes to Universal Studios or Disneyland THINKS of researching for wild predators roaming in that area! I don't believe you for a minute IF you ever for example go Hong Kong Disneyland and you will automatically and common sensely start googling for "Dangerous predators in Hong Kong Disneyland" before your visit? You think your train of though and precaution would automatically expect Hong Kong's Disneyland to have wild life predator when it's a kiddy place?


A) Disney LAND is in California. Disney WORLD is in Florida. Get it right.
B) There were signs. Whether they said gators, fish, snakes; doesn't matter. There's a cautionary device placed in view of the public. You even provided proof in post #78 that gator signs were posted. If they chose to ignore it? Tough titties. Use some sense.

If I travel? I do research. Granted; it's all been on a national and not an international level. Still, I check for pertinent dangers. Yes, wildlife among them. Cultural aberrations, traditions, laws, etc.

When I visited Maine, I researched moose. I'd heard rumors about attacks. Random and rare but they do occur. Adult males can weigh 1.5k pounds and stand over 6.5' at the shoulder. My damn car doesn't even weigh that much! So, guess what... When I see those antlered motha fuckers, I treat their hairy asses with respect and leave them the hell alone. I leave their habitat alone. When I visit my best friend in Maine, I keep my guard up because he lives on 54 acres and plenty of it is wilderness.

It's called being prepared and being smart.

Back to topic... The entire state of Florida is varying degrees of swamp land built into habitable property. Guess what buttercups? Humans are the intruders. Disney built on gator territory. Gators don't give a rat's fuzzy fuck if it's a man made lake or someone's pool. Yes, they roam around in regular neighborhoods. They adapted. Humans have to stop being self absorbed and thinking that the world revolves around them, because Mother Nature will disabuse them of that idea very quickly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
Making my way through the thread, I was struck by the undercurrent of "Of course, if I'd been the parent, this would never have happened!"
To offer one example: "If you choose to willing be blind, obtuse , obdurate and lacking in common sense? You deserve whatever ill fortune befalls you. Whether a tourist or a native to the area" (Post 79).


Get your head out of your ass. I never claimed any such thing. I stand behind the statement. People rarely, if ever, prepare ahead for disasters. Stop reading ulterior meanings into a very simple idea.

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RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 3:57:46 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shandirra


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I totally disagree, because places like Disney, they are responsible for making sure the place is safe for kids to roam. Nobody goes to Universal Studios or Disneyland THINKS of researching for wild predators roaming in that area! I don't believe you for a minute IF you ever for example go Hong Kong Disneyland and you will automatically and common sensely start googling for "Dangerous predators in Hong Kong Disneyland" before your visit? You think your train of though and precaution would automatically expect Hong Kong's Disneyland to have wild life predator when it's a kiddy place?


A) Disney LAND is in California. Disney WORLD is in Florida. Get it right.
B) There were signs. Whether they said gators, fish, snakes; doesn't matter. There's a cautionary device placed in view of the public. You even provided proof in post #78 that gator signs were posted. If they chose to ignore it? Tough titties. Use some sense.

If I travel? I do research. Granted; it's all been on a national and not an international level. Still, I check for pertinent dangers. Yes, wildlife among them. Cultural aberrations, traditions, laws, etc.



The sign I posted was in a different Lake. NOT at the beach. So that sign just says that there are gators in THAT specific Lake.

So that means nothing. There was no warning wildlife predator signs at the man made beach that this happened.

I have travelled to quite a few different places in the world, and no, I have never once bothered to do any research before I travel. I can't imagine going to every city and researching for dangerous predators. It's like, just because there are sharks in the sea in Australia, doesn't mean the beach I am going to will have sharks, for example. If there were, they would have put shark warnings. It's usually expected that such places would warn of predator danger.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/17/2016 4:00:12 AM >

(in reply to Shandirra)
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RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 4:29:41 AM   
Shandirra


Posts: 196
Joined: 11/28/2007
From: NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I have travelled to quite a few different places in the world, and no, I have never once bothered to do any research before I travel. I can't imagine going to every city and researching for dangerous predators. It's like, just because there are sharks in the sea in Australia, doesn't mean the beach I am going to will have sharks, for example. If there were, they would have put shark warnings. It's usually expected that such places would warn of predator danger.


Criminy, you really are that stupid. I leave you to your rose colored glasses.


_____________________________

Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting..."Wow! What a ride!

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 4:42:49 AM   
blnymph


Posts: 1599
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: online 		alligators aside -
when facing a natural environment (and nature is everywhere), accomodating accordingly should be, well, natural behaviour. Use your own brain for it. Do not rely on others to do it for you.


Would you expect signposts telling you to dress warmly to avoid freezing (to death if you don't) when you visit Antarctica?



< Message edited by blnymph -- 6/17/2016 4:43:21 AM >

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RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 5:44:43 AM   
WhoreMods


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Joined: 5/6/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Apparently they've killed the gator and retrieved what's left of the kid, Greta: closed casket funeral, it seems.

I read that they are not sure if they have the correct gator or not. They have captured some, but they are going to compare bite marks to identify the correct one.

And the boys body was found entirely intact. Preliminary report is that he died from drowning, not from being eaten.

That's a bit rough on Albert then, isn't it?

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RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 5:45:27 AM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

I must admit, coming from where I do, a lakeside is where I'd go to stop, sit, admire the scenery and let some peace wash over me. It's second nature. I'd have to be reminded more than once, I reckon, not to treat lakes in certain parts of Florida that way. *Shudder*.


They created a beach on a man-made lagoon, trucked in white-sand, built a hotel geared for families with young children, and planned family activities on the beach. They placed no barriers to the water.

They put up a sign saying 'no swimming', including warnings about deep waters and a steep-drop off. but then they keep a lifeguard on the beach.

I don't understand what all the fuss is here about a clear warning sign. If you are going to bother to put a warning sign up, why not put one up that actually warned what the real dangers are, rather than make people interpret it for themselves? And send mixed messages with the lifeguard?

A person could reasonably conclude that of the things they need to worry about in that man-made lake, gators is not one of them. So wading would not seem like that big of a deal.

Last month we were talking about the gorilla enclosure, and despite all of the barriers put up, a child still managed to get into it. And now that zoo is putting up additional barriers. Why? Because they are selling a secure environment to view dangerous animals, they draw visitors in for that purpose, so the onus is on them to assure safety.

At Disney, visitors were welcomed onto that beach for playing, picnics, heck even the night of the tragedy the hotel was showing an outdoor movie on the beach. They were literally inviting hundreds of people to the beach, with no barrier whatsoever between the young children and things that can crawl out of the water.

Yes Florida is famous for its gators, but at Disney that lagoon is touted for being man-made. It really isn't a stretch for a visitor to think that maybe putting a man-made lake with a white-sand beach = no gators.

Or is it possible that putting up a sign warning about gators in this area built for human activity might discourage visitors at that hotel? So instead they put up bland warnings?

(in reply to PeonForHer)
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RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 5:51:37 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Apparently they've killed the gator and retrieved what's left of the kid, Greta: closed casket funeral, it seems.

I read that they are not sure if they have the correct gator or not. They have captured some, but they are going to compare bite marks to identify the correct one.

And the boys body was found entirely intact. Preliminary report is that he died from drowning, not from being eaten.

That's a bit rough on Albert then, isn't it?


So, the alligator saw a meal, and not being hungry right then and there, did not roil and roll and eat, but took the live boy under the water and held him, and then stuffed him under something to keep him under, to have for a later snack. Its how they operate.

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RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 6:14:29 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline 		Gotcha. Albert drowned the kid himself, rather than making off with the body after the child had drowned on their own initiative.

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 6:43:41 AM   
Cinnamongirl67


Posts: 854
Status: offline 		I agree with you Greta. The sign is not adequate. But you see dear showing a sign with a prehistoric alligator on it would be bad for business. They simply put no swimming. They build this beautiful lagoon and hotel, making it look like paradise, of course they want you to feel like it is carefree and harmless as possible. This isn't the Everglades. It is a park especially designed for children and every precaution should be taken as warning.
Alligators are unpredictable and lurchers. Just getting close to the water and never getting in could cause it to snap out of the water and eat you for lunch. People find alligators in their backyard in Florida, sometimes in their swimming pool if they don't have a lanai.
The hotel holds responsibility just As the zoo did, for inadequate protection or warning.
Next we will have nature hikes through juriasic park with a sign that says... Animals might bite.
Someone mentioned pit bulls. These dogs need outlawed. You always hear people say that my pitbull is the most loving docile creature. That loving docile creature statistically turns on their owners and family more then any breed of dog. This isn't an ankle biter. These dogs kill. Pit bulls get a bad rap? It's because they deserve it. It's not how they are raised either, it is in their nature.
What is going on in Florida? Nothing you won't hear about happening in every compromising state in the future.

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(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 7:16:03 AM   
enslaver


Posts: 3637
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		What happens in Fla. now? Disney pays a few millions in damages out of their petty cash, then worry about the safety of their relationship with their insurance companies, not the suckers coming in their gates.

(in reply to Cinnamongirl67)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 7:34:09 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Get your head out of your ass.

To borrow from the dowager countess, "Vulgarity is no substitute for wit."


quote:

I never claimed any such thing.

I did say "undercurrent." Of course, the current became a lot less "under" in Post 102:

If I travel? I do research. Granted; it's all been on a national and not an international level. Still, I check for pertinent dangers. Yes, wildlife among them. Cultural aberrations, traditions, laws, etc.

When I visited Maine, I researched moose. I'd heard rumors about attacks. Random and rare but they do occur. Adult males can weigh 1.5k pounds and stand over 6.5' at the shoulder. My damn car doesn't even weigh that much! So, guess what... When I see those antlered motha fuckers, I treat their hairy asses with respect and leave them the hell alone. I leave their habitat alone. When I visit my best friend in Maine, I keep my guard up because he lives on 54 acres and plenty of it is wilderness.


quote:

I stand behind the statement.

That's certainly your right.

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Shandirra)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 7:52:49 AM   
Cinnamongirl67


Posts: 854
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: enslaver

What happens in Fla. now? Disney pays a few millions in damages out of their petty cash, then worry about the safety of their relationship with their insurance companies, not the suckers coming in their gates.


Well of course my friend! It's all about money. They will pay the family and carry on as usual. People are not their concern as people but of the money they carry in.
I am not a fan of Disney to begin with. As a child I went there and had wonderful memories which it was new, it really was amazing. I took my children 4 years ago and the only good thing I can say is the haunted house was as cool as ever. The crowds were unbelievable and it began to rain. We decided to take the tram out. I am polite to people, wait my turn, say excuse me. There was zero security and 4 Asian men with no regard for anyone except themselves getting out of the rain, elbowed me and knocked my 4 year old son to the ground in the process. Needless to say I caught with the man and pushed him to the ground as he did my son. The men could do nothing because they knew they would be attacked by several witnesses.
Thumbs down to Disney it's expensive, overrated, and it is nothing of the magical park it once was. I wouldn't waste my money there again. There are much better vacation spots.

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RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 8:31:29 AM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Apparently they've killed the gator and retrieved what's left of the kid, Greta: closed casket funeral, it seems.

I read that they are not sure if they have the correct gator or not. They have captured some, but they are going to compare bite marks to identify the correct one.

And the boys body was found entirely intact. Preliminary report is that he died from drowning, not from being eaten.

That's a bit rough on Albert then, isn't it?


So, the alligator saw a meal, and not being hungry right then and there, did not roil and roll and eat, but took the live boy under the water and held him, and then stuffed him under something to keep him under, to have for a later snack. Its how they operate.

I understand that. What I was trying to point out is that the previous statement was entirely false, and unnecessarily provocative. No need to put false statements out there about the condition of the child's body, as if the death itself isn't enough of a tragedy.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 8:46:58 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yup, and I was just pointing out to WhoreMods (a colonial) who may not be familiar with these creatures from our ponds in his ponds in oh............I am betting southern Geordieland... how they operate.

I agree with what you said. Just adding info. You get grabbed by an alligator, you are not without blemish, but they don't tear up their snacks and let it deteriorate faster.

And horrific and tragic and abysmal as it is, I would hope their parents are not on this site reading this thread. I should think they have other things to do, and................well. enough.



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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 8:52:59 AM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yup, and I was just pointing out to WhoreMods (a colonial) who may not be familiar with these creatures from our ponds in his ponds in oh............I am betting southern Geordieland... how they operate.

I agree with what you said. Just adding info. You get grabbed by an alligator, you are not without blemish, but they don't tear up their snacks and let it deteriorate faster.

And horrific and tragic and abysmal as it is, I would hope their parents are not on this site reading this thread. I should think they have other things to do, and................well. enough.



God I hope neither they nor anyone from Orlando is.

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 8:55:45 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline 		Hey, the source I found that snippet on claimed that Albert had been shot and the child retrieved: no mention of needing to compare bite patterns or the kid dying of drowning rather than biting.
That's what I get for using Metro as a source, I suppose...

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RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 10:01:06 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

I don't understand what all the fuss is here about a clear warning sign. If you are going to bother to put a warning sign up, why not put one up that actually warned what the real dangers are, rather than make people interpret it for themselves? And send mixed messages with the lifeguard?


That last really does strike me as misinformation, and dangerous misinformation at that. The presence of a lifeguard would make me think, 'Ah, at least I can paddle'. Or, if I were still a small boy of a certain age, 'Nah, who cares about the grown up? I'll be naughty and go in the water!'

Underlying all this, of course, is the whole Disneyworld vibe: that you're in a world of fantasy, innocence and fun .. nothing, but nothing, bad could happen to a child there ....

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 10:27:51 AM   
Shandirra


Posts: 196
Joined: 11/28/2007
From: NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph
alligators aside -
when facing a natural environment (and nature is everywhere), accomodating accordingly should be, well, natural behaviour. Use your own brain for it. Do not rely on others to do it for you.
Would you expect signposts telling you to dress warmly to avoid freezing (to death if you don't) when you visit Antarctica?


I'm not the one looking for signs. Greta is. You should direct your disagreement towards her.


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
To borrow from the dowager countess, "Vulgarity is no substitute for wit."

I don't waste it on idiots. Guess where that leaves you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
I did say "undercurrent." Of course, the current became a lot less "under" in Post 102:


I was illustrating a point. I take personal responsibility when I travel. Others need to as well. Apparently you're too vacuous to comprehend an analogy.


_____________________________

Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting..."Wow! What a ride!

(in reply to blnymph)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: What's going on in Florida! - 6/17/2016 10:31:01 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67

Someone mentioned pit bulls. These dogs need outlawed. You always hear people say that my pitbull is the most loving docile creature. That loving docile creature statistically turns on their owners and family more then any breed of dog. This isn't an ankle biter. These dogs kill. Pit bulls get a bad rap? It's because they deserve it. It's not how they are raised either, it is in their nature.


How about cocker spaniels?

http://listovative.com/top-12-dog-breeds-that-bite-the-aggressive-dogs-list/

(in reply to Cinnamongirl67)
Profile   Post #: 120
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