RE: Brexit Vote Results

RE: Brexit Vote Results (Full Version)

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Staleek -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 8:50:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle If I was on the Remain side, I wouldn't be as despondent as many of our UK posters are. Try depressed. That's not a joke or hyperbole. I wake up each day, feeling just for a second, as if it's a bad dream. Then it kicks in. Swirling around in my mind, making me feel physically sick, no end in sight. And each day brings more horror. It wasn't enough to simply vote us out, now we have idiots roaming around beating up ethnic people and intimidating foreigners and immigrants. Emboldened by having the stupider half of the country at their back, the racists and fascists among us have decided they can act pretty openly against those they hate. The only silver lining I can see is a future. Most of the younger generation voted to stay. Maybe, in about 20 years from now, when a few of these idiots who voted us out have kicked the bucket, and after a brutal recession has put Britain on its knees, maybe then they'll let us back. And this time we won't be able to bargain to stay on the edges. We'll get the lot. The Euro, Schengen agreement, the social chapter. Everything. One positive we can take from this - it makes Trumps election less likely. The fact a thoughtless vote can have such catastrophic consequences might focus United States voters in the coming election to take things more seriously.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 8:52:32 AM)
I don't think it's as complex as people make it out to be. Take any EU law. If we like it - keep it 'as is'. Change 'EU' to 'UK' and 'European' to 'British' and write it into British law. If we don't like it - chuck it out wholesale and forget it existed. If there are bits we like, keep those and reduct the bits we don't want. Rinse and repeat for each EU law on our books. Very simple process - at least to me. Time consuming and tedious, yes; but not exactly complicated.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 8:58:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods .... All that nonsense about providing workers with rights and benefits for being employed just isn't British, is it? We didn't do any of that shite when we had an empire that covered a third of the globe, did we? The really funny thing about this is that there's at least three rabidly right wing movements in other EU countries watching to see if we do manage (or even try) to disentangle ourselves before they start demanding their countries need to get out of the EU... Well, can't even send the bloody children up the chimneys anymore cuz only rich people have chimneys now, the rest have all combi boilers... As for the the other idiots waiting, if you need a reason why they're going to make sure that we fail (as in the EU) there you got it in a nutshell

WhoreMods -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 8:58:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 I don't think it's as complex as people make it out to be. Take any EU law. If we like it - keep it 'as is'. Change 'EU' to 'UK' and 'European' to 'British' and write it into British law. If we don't like it - chuck it out wholesale and forget it existed. If there are bits we like, keep those and reduct the bits we don't want. Rinse and repeat for each EU law on our books. Very simple process - at least to me. Time consuming and tedious, yes; but not exactly complicated. Do you have any idea how long it takes to get one law through the Lords? Time consuming isn't the half of it...

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 8:58:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek It wasn't enough to simply vote us out, now we have idiots roaming around beating up ethnic people and intimidating foreigners and immigrants. There will always be stupid idiots jumping on whatever bandwagon suits their needs. quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek ...maybe then they'll let us back. And this time we won't be able to bargain to stay on the edges. We'll get the lot. The Euro, Schengen agreement, the social chapter. Everything. I sincerely hope not. Even my kids voted to leave. quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek One positive we can take from this - it makes Trumps election less likely. The fact a thoughtless vote can have such catastrophic consequences might focus United States voters in the coming election to take things more seriously. So you think our referendum was a joke just because it didn't swing your way?? How obtuse. [8\|]

LadyConstanze -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 9:00:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 I don't think it's as complex as people make it out to be. Take any EU law. If we like it - keep it 'as is'. Change 'EU' to 'UK' and 'European' to 'British' and write it into British law. If we don't like it - chuck it out wholesale and forget it existed. If there are bits we like, keep those and reduct the bits we don't want. Rinse and repeat for each EU law on our books. Very simple process - at least to me. Time consuming and tedious, yes; but not exactly complicated. You haven't heard the very simple speech Gideon made? BRUTAL AUSTERITY, has he consulted you? No? I'm sure he will... As for laws, yes, the Tories have always championed worker's rights, just not in this universe, you might be thinking StarTrek and Mirror Mirror...

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 9:01:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 I don't think it's as complex as people make it out to be. Take any EU law. If we like it - keep it 'as is'. Change 'EU' to 'UK' and 'European' to 'British' and write it into British law. If we don't like it - chuck it out wholesale and forget it existed. If there are bits we like, keep those and reduct the bits we don't want. Rinse and repeat for each EU law on our books. Very simple process - at least to me. Time consuming and tedious, yes; but not exactly complicated. Do you have any idea how long it takes to get one law through the Lords? Time consuming isn't the half of it... We already have those laws on our books. It's not like anything new to discuss. Once we are out, those EU laws are gone and defunct. They would only have to consider those that we want to modify in some way. I don't see it as a super-long process as it would be in normal circumstances.

WhoreMods -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 9:03:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek It wasn't enough to simply vote us out, now we have idiots roaming around beating up ethnic people and intimidating foreigners and immigrants. There will always be stupid idiots jumping on whatever bandwagon suits their needs. Inarguably, but there's a worry that this is just a curtain raiser: if the sorry wankers are acting like this now, how will they be carrying on in a couple of years when it becomes plain that leaving the EU won't have any impact on immigration at all? That probably won't be an incentive for them to behave any better, put it that way.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 9:11:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek It wasn't enough to simply vote us out, now we have idiots roaming around beating up ethnic people and intimidating foreigners and immigrants. There will always be stupid idiots jumping on whatever bandwagon suits their needs. Inarguably, but there's a worry that this is just a curtain raiser: if the sorry wankers are acting like this now, how will they be carrying on in a couple of years when it becomes plain that leaving the EU won't have any impact on immigration at all? That probably won't be an incentive for them to behave any better, put it that way. Like any yobbo - it won't make any difference what anyone else says or does, they'll go about being a yobbo no matter what. I do believe it will make a difference to immigration. Mainly because that everyone will be on the same level playing field under the same rules. How much and which direction that takes is up to the ruling party of the day. Cockroach could have reduced migration from outside the EU by large numbers - but he didn't. Now those from the EU will be under the same rules as those from outside with no favouritism. Inside the EU, we couldn't do that; outside the EU, we can. Bottom line is, it's up the prevailing party to enforce the rules to change the levels of migration.

tweakabelle -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 9:16:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 I don't think it's as complex as people make it out to be. Take any EU law. If we like it - keep it 'as is'. Change 'EU' to 'UK' and 'European' to 'British' and write it into British law. If we don't like it - chuck it out wholesale and forget it existed. If there are bits we like, keep those and reduct the bits we don't want. Rinse and repeat for each EU law on our books. Very simple process - at least to me. Time consuming and tedious, yes; but not exactly complicated. I'm not sure you fully appreciate the levels of complexity here. While I don't know the exact number of laws involved, there are probably hundreds of laws, and thousands of regulations flowing from those laws, and/or other regulations imposed by the EU Commission. Each law and regulation will require individual assessment and change. The kinds of changes you listed won't begin to scratch the surface of potential problems arising from UK disentanglement with the EU. And it's a lot more complex than merely changing the statute books. Those disadvantaged by any legal changes will have rights of redress under the law. As some of these laws have been in place for up to 40 years, the levels of compensation could become prohibitive. Not to mention the political push back by those affected .... A lot of legal issues relying on EU treaties or laws or regulations would cease to have any basis in law. Remembering common law and precedents have a strong influence on UK law, innumerable legal standards might cease to have any legislative foundation or alternatively the courts might be making decisions on the basis of precedents whose legal foundation has ceased to exist. As the written law is just one of many areas of potentially complex problem management, disentanglement really is far more complex than you appear to be allowing.

WhoreMods -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 9:23:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 Like any yobbo - it won't make any difference what anyone else says or does, they'll go about being a yobbo no matter what. It does, sadly. A lot of the chickenshit little cowards have taken the fact that half of the country voted the same way they did as support for their yobbishness, and are viewing that as a mandate to act up more. Ordinarily I'd say the shennanigans over the last few days are down to the footie (remember that French girl getting locked in a pub back room while the landlord phoned the police and gangs of twats smashing up citroens back in '98?), but we haven't played Poland, and something else happened on thursday, didn't it? quote: I do believe it will make a difference to immigration. Mainly because that everyone will be on the same level playing field under the same rules. How much and which direction that takes is up to the ruling party of the day. Cockroach could have reduced migration from outside the EU by large numbers - but he didn't. Now those from the EU will be under the same rules as those from outside with no favouritism. Inside the EU, we couldn't do that; outside the EU, we can. Bottom line is, it's up the prevailing party to enforce the rules to change the levels of migration. That's nice, but it remains to be seen whether it does make any difference or not, and from his behaviour since Cameltoe resigned without firing up article 50 (which I'm increasingly visualisation as some huge magic bomb out of a manga) Spode is going to show even less backbone on this one than his predecessor.

Staleek -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 9:27:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 I don't think it's as complex as people make it out to be. Take any EU law. If we like it - keep it 'as is'. Change 'EU' to 'UK' and 'European' to 'British' and write it into British law. If we don't like it - chuck it out wholesale and forget it existed. If there are bits we like, keep those and reduct the bits we don't want. Rinse and repeat for each EU law on our books. Very simple process - at least to me. Time consuming and tedious, yes; but not exactly complicated. Spoken like a man who doesn't understand what a treaty is or why it exists. I've got news for you, admiral Nelson, the Great British Empire has gone. Long gone. The only way we do business is by trade and mutual agreement, or treaty. Any treaty will cede sovereignty. 50 new treaties to be negotiated, as well as sifting through laws, all with foreign involvement whether you like or not. And This from a weaker economy, with no bargaining position, and hostile trade partners looking to make an example.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 9:31:55 AM)
I agree tweak. But we have to be very pragmatic about those EU laws and statutes. Once article 50 is set in motion, the two-year death clock starts ticking and there's nothing we can do about it. We could ask for an extended period but that requires the agreement of all of the remaining 27 countries - and I can't see that happening. So we have to iron out these laws within that very strict time period. We have no choice - it has to be done and there's no leeway or wriggle room at all. There is no fall-back or contingency available. It's quite literally, 'do or die'. When that last grain of sand falls, those EU laws just cease to exist for the UK. It's a race against the clock. Simple as that. quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek And This from a weaker economy, with no bargaining position, and hostile trade partners looking to make an example. I don't agree that we have no bargaining power. Such a defeatist. We already have several countries queueing up to make trade deals with us - Taiwan for one, announced that only this morning.

Lucylastic -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 9:36:45 AM)
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/live-reaction-racist-abuse-video-11536158 LIVE: Reaction to video showing vile racist abuse hurled on Market Street tram The shocking footage showing three youths shouting at a man to “Get back to Africa” on a tram this morning has provoked outrage across the country Horrified readers have blasted the ‘vile’ youngsters who hurled racist abuse at a tram passenger during morning rush hour. A video clip shows a group of three teenagers shouting at a tram passenger after he confronted them for swearing. On the recording they can be heard shouting “Get back to Africa” as the tram travelled from Shudehill to Market Street at 7.40am Tuesday morning. Greater Manchester Police have described the clip as a “disgusting display of abuse” and are urging members of the public to help find the culprits. Mayor and Police and Crime Commissioner Tony Lloyd has also slammed the racist attack

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 9:39:17 AM)
And so they should. Throw the book at them. Yobbos will be yobbos and they need to be given the maximum penalty of the law. Ordinary decent people, however they voted, don't behave like this.

tweakabelle -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 9:43:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 I agree tweak. But we have to be very pragmatic about those EU laws and statutes. Once article 50 is set in motion, the two-year death clock starts ticking and there's nothing we can do about it. We could ask for an extended period but that requires the agreement of all of the remaining 27 countries - and I can't see that happening. So we have to iron out these laws within that very strict time period. We have no choice - it has to be done and there's no leeway or wriggle room at all. There is no fall-back or contingency available. It's quite literally, 'do or die'. When that last grain of sand falls, those EU laws just cease to exist for the UK. It's a race against the clock. Simple as that. I'm glad you are beginning to appreciate the complexity of what is involved. Remember that the written law is just one of many areas where problems like this will need to be addressed. Whether all that can be successfully accomplished within the two year period remains to be seen and is certainly open to questioning. As you point out, none of this matters an iota until Art 50 is invoked. So who is going to invoke it and when? Because as things stand I don't see anyone in the queue of those lining up to invoke it, and the more I think about it, the stronger the possibility that it might never get invoked becomes....

WhoreMods -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 9:49:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 And so they should. Throw the book at them. Yobbos will be yobbos and they need to be given the maximum penalty of the law. Ordinary decent people, however they voted, don't behave like this. You'd be surprised what ordinary people are capable of under the right circumstances. And, as I've said already, do you honestly think that the yobbos aren't assuming that the ordinary people (or 52% of them, at least) are behind them, because they voted the same way on a referendum that the Murdoched swathes of the media were insisting was purely about bigotry and racism?

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 9:54:04 AM)
Article 50 can be invoked in a number of different ways. Cockroach has stated that he is not going to be the one to press that button and insists it will be up to the new PM to do that. In theory, that will be by 2nd September although rumours are going around that they want to delay that until 9th. As for the EU laws, however complex thay appear to be, the committee/group organising the leave conditions are gonna have to speed-read most of them and sift the wheat from the chaff in very short order.

Lucylastic -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 9:54:18 AM)
racists will be racists....its when they are driven to blame the immigrants instead of being impotent in the face of TPTB and get angry at the people they can reach and turn dangerous. Oh and to be clear, it is the RACISTS I have trouble with. We (England) Always had a problem with racism and immigrants. It certainly didnt start with the referendum. Now the little cunts are even more empowered by the result to be loud gobby ignorant cunts and uglier with that "freedom". Just make excuses for the apathy.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/28/2016 9:56:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 And so they should. Throw the book at them. Yobbos will be yobbos and they need to be given the maximum penalty of the law. Ordinary decent people, however they voted, don't behave like this. You'd be surprised what ordinary people are capable of under the right circumstances. And, as I've said already, do you honestly think that the yobbos aren't assuming that the ordinary people (or 52% of them, at least) are behind them, because they voted the same way on a referendum that the Murdoched swathes of the media were insisting was purely about bigotry and racism? I don't give a flying fuck what the yobbos think. They ain't me, don't represent me, or the vast majority of people. Chuck 'em in jail and throw away the key I say.

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