quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
I don't have a full tracked wheelchair (does anyone know where I can get one?).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I personally have survived 2 home invasions at gunpoint. In once instance I had 4 kids in the house. In neither did the cops/DA prosecute anyone. (I think one was because I was military during the Nam War - They recovered the gun in that one). Both in Cali. If they are on the outside of the door, you don't shoot. Never know who is out there. Once inside, either thru the door or a window, that is a different story. Now they are a real threat. And my outside dog is useless because he just wants to play with them. My inside dogs are my warning system. They are ankle biters lol.

I understand the fear factor involved. I don't understand shooting thru a door. Be ready, yes. I have been shot at and it is no fun. I don't want to put anyone thru that. At the same time, preparedness is understandable. That is why they call it responsible gun ownership. I can't hunt any longer. I don't have a full tracked wheelchair (does anyone know where I can get one?). I do go to the range to shoot at engineer stakes to keep my profeciency up. I also practice the old Army Quick Kill training (https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Quick-Kill-Instinct-accurately/dp/1493725688) Keeps habits honed. And BB Gun ammo is cheap.

They've recently been coming out with some electric stuff for the woods. It's quiet. You may want to google that and see if there is any thing you could use. As I recall the prices were high, but I think competition will eventually bring them down.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

They were not trying to break in. They were banging on the door thinking it was a friend's house. Apparently banging loudly. They were a couple of drunk 15 year old kids. But every report says they were banging on the door, not trying to break in. The homeowner had already called the police. He was safely inside his home, in broad daylight, and he had LOTS of other options rather than killing a 15 year old kid.

I am pro 2nd Amendment, but it is cases like this that give gun control advocates ammunition, so to speak. And it is people who defend these types of outrages that make reasonable people reconsider whether or not this right belongs in modern society.

Not saying he was right but how could the home owner know they weren't trying to break in?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

But you see, this is the legacy of an American 'tradition' This is the 'American culture' where the 2nd amend. is the enabler.

I have a right to own guns.

I have a right to defend my home.

I have a right to call the police.

I have a right to shoot to kill and even before the police arrive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

They were not trying to break in. They were banging on the door thinking it was a friend's house. Apparently banging loudly. They were a couple of drunk 15 year old kids. But every report says they were banging on the door, not trying to break in. The homeowner had already called the police. He was safely inside his home, in broad daylight, and he had LOTS of other options rather than killing a 15 year old kid.

I am pro 2nd Amendment, but it is cases like this that give gun control advocates ammunition, so to speak. And it is people who defend these types of outrages that make reasonable people reconsider whether or not this right belongs in modern society.

Not saying he was right but how could the home owner know they weren't trying to break in?

If I were in his shoes, I can see being scared of that possibility. But no one was in his house, they were still on the other side of the door. He knew the cops were on the way. One pane broke, yet no one broke the door down, no one tried to come in other windows. He has no reason to think there was a weapon. Yet his first instinct was to shoot blindly rather than run.

Whether you like it or not, you can't afford to have knee-jerk reactions when you take on the responsibility of a gun. The effects of not using your brain when pointing a gun at someone are far graver than many other responsibilities.

The kids were irresponsible for drinking and getting the wrong house. But they were not posing a threat.

He didn't deserve a death sentence for this.

And gun owners don't get to impose them on assumptions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

But you see, this is the legacy of an American 'tradition' This is the 'American culture' where the 2nd amend. is the enabler.

I have a right to own guns.

I have a right to defend my home.

I have a right to call the police.

I have a right to shoot to kill and even before the police arrive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

But you see, this is the legacy of an American 'tradition' This is the 'American culture' where the 2nd amend. is the enabler.

I have a right to own guns.

I have a right to defend my home.

I have a right to call the police.

I have a right to shoot to kill and even before the police arrive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Teenage gunned down through a closed door in broad daylight

Is there no end to gun killings in America?

Until someone comes up with a test to keep idiots from being able to buy one, probably not.

From the perspective of a gun owner, here are the mistakes made by the home owner.

1) he fired through a closed door without identifying his target.
2) He fired through a closed door without identifying his target after he had already called the police.
3) He fired through a closed door period.


Most states have what is known as "Castle Law" based on old English law that basically means you can defend your home and property from intruders with clear hostile intent.

Now, this means that if the intruder is INSIDE your home with the intent to do you harm, you can blow their shit away and keep firing as long as they are twitching more or less.

As long as the would be danger is outside your home, you wait for cops to show up.

Now in rural areas, it is a bit different, you can use deadly force if someone is trying to steal livestock, damage barns or outbuildings, but it is generally preferred that you try and at least attempt to detain them.

Of course you can just load a 12 gauge with rock salt and let fly with that if you really dont want to bother with detaining or dealing with the paper work of killing someone. (you can also add flakes of hot pepper to the mix for an added burn.)

To continue, in many western states, it is perfectly legal to shoot someone cutting fences.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I personally have survived 2 home invasions at gunpoint. In once instance I had 4 kids in the house. In neither did the cops/DA prosecute anyone. (I think one was because I was military during the Nam War - They recovered the gun in that one). Both in Cali. If they are on the outside of the door, you don't shoot. Never know who is out there. Onchttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1347133/Disabled-man-banned-using-road-tank-wheelchair-killjoy-DVLA-chiefs.htmlww.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1347133/Disabled-man-banned-using-road-tank-wheelchair-killjoy-DVLA-chiefs.html, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1347133/Disabled-man-banned-using-road-tank-wheelchair-killjoy-DVLA-chiefs.htmleither thru the door or a window, that is a different story. Now they are a real threat. And my outside dog is useless because he just wants to play with them. My inside dogs are my warning system. They are ankle biters lol.

I understand the fear factor involved. I don't understand shooting thru a door. Be ready, yes. I have been shot at and it is no fun. I don't want to put anyone thru that. At the same time, preparedness is understandable. That is why they call it responsible gun ownership. I can't hunt any longer. I don't have a full tracked wheelchair (does anyone know where I can get one?). I do go to the range to shoot at engineer stakes to keep my profeciency up. I also practice the old Army Quick Kill training (https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Quick-Kill-Instinct-accurately/dp/1493725688) Keeps habits honed. And BB Gun ammo is cheap.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Teenage gunned down through a closed door in broad daylight

Is there no end to gun killings in America?

Until someone comes up with a test to keep idiots from being able to buy one, probably not.

From the perspective of a gun owner, here are the mistakes made by the home owner.

1) he fired through a closed door without identifying his target.
2) He fired through a closed door without identifying his target after he had already called the police.
3) He fired through a closed door period.


Most states have what is known as "Castle Law" based on old English law that basically means you can defend your home and property from intruders with clear hostile intent.

Now, this means that if the intruder is INSIDE your home with the intent to do you harm, you can blow their shit away and keep firing as long as they are twitching more or less.

As long as the would be danger is outside your home, you wait for cops to show up.

Now in rural areas, it is a bit different, you can use deadly force if someone is trying to steal livestock, damage barns or outbuildings, but it is generally preferred that you try and at least attempt to detain them.

Of course you can just load a 12 gauge with rock salt and let fly with that if you really dont want to bother with detaining or dealing with the paper work of killing someone. (you can also add flakes of hot pepper to the mix for an added burn.)

To continue, in many western states, it is perfectly legal to shoot someone cutting fences.

Actually from what I heard about Castle Law Doctrine is that is extends to you personal space anywhere, in your car and even walking down the street. It did not however, negate all laws about carrying.

Like Zimmerman, the doctrine makes what he did perfectly legal. He was attacked and if he had only wounded the punk he would be justified in shooting him more to make damn sure he is dead.

Once the supreme court rules on rights, no state law can take those rights away.

And first of all, I can't believe they let that page get published with the misspellings. Second of all, the guy should do some time. You don't just shoot through a door, period. I might have stuck a gun in the assholes mouth and demanded ID so I could sue his Parents for the broken glass, but still. The only reason to shoot through a closed door is if bullets have come through it at you. Then maybe, but that is a big maybe.

The way I see it this guy should do some time, but for like negligent homicide. There is no way it could have been premeditated.

And for y'all anti-gunners, the NRA agrees that he should go to prison and not be allowed to buy a gun anymore.

T^T

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

But you see, this is the legacy of an American 'tradition' This is the 'American culture' where the 2nd amend. is the enabler.

I have a right to own guns.

I have a right to defend my home.

I have a right to call the police.

I have a right to shoot to kill and even before the police arrive.

Another attempt to trash all gun owners because one person screwed up.
And other than me not one word about underage drinking which set the situation up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

But you see, this is the legacy of an American 'tradition' This is the 'American culture' where the 2nd amend. is the enabler.

I have a right to own guns.

I have a right to defend my home.

I have a right to call the police.

I have a right to shoot to kill and even before the police arrive.

Another attempt to trash all gun owners because one person screwed up.
And other than me not one word about underage drinking which set the situation up.

Not true. I brought it up in my post that you responded to. I said they were irresponsible for drinking. But that doesn't equal a death sentence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SunDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
I don't have a full tracked wheelchair (does anyone know where I can get one?).

Hooah, Ken.



Link to manufacturer: Action TrackChair

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

But you see, this is the legacy of an American 'tradition' This is the 'American culture' where the 2nd amend. is the enabler.

I have a right to own guns.

I have a right to defend my home.

I have a right to call the police.

I have a right to shoot to kill and even before the police arrive.

Another attempt to trash all gun owners because one person screwed up.
And other than me not one word about underage drinking which set the situation up.

Not true. I brought it up in my post that you responded to. I said they were irresponsible for drinking. But that doesn't equal a death sentence.

Sorry, I missed that. I apologize. And again I have stated two or three times that none of this gives the home owner a pass.
We have two serious problems independant of each other. Underage drinking leads to a lot of deaths. And this guy screwed up big time. Neither is negated in any way by the other. The kid would be alive if he hadn't been drunk. The kid would be alive if the homeowner hadn't screwed up.