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ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

But you see, this is the legacy of an American 'tradition' This is the 'American culture' where the 2nd amend. is the enabler.

I have a right to own guns.

I have a right to defend my home.

I have a right to call the police.

I have a right to shoot to kill and even before the police arrive.

Another attempt to trash all gun owners because one person screwed up.
And other than me not one word about underage drinking which set the situation up.

Not true. I brought it up in my post that you responded to. I said they were irresponsible for drinking. But that doesn't equal a death sentence.

Sorry, I missed that. I apologize. And again I have stated two or three times that none of this gives the home owner a pass.
We have two serious problems independant of each other. Underage drinking leads to a lot of deaths. And this guy screwed up big time. Neither is negated in any way by the other. The kid would be alive if he hadn't been drunk. The kid would be alive if the homeowner hadn't screwed up.

Oh yeah, there is all kinds if whatthefuckery going on in this tragedy. And whoever gave those kids the alcohol should face charges as well.

But as someone who believes in the second amendment, I also believe that anyone with a gun should be held to a higher standard, simply because consequences of gun "abuse", if you will, frequently outweigh consequences of other abuses, such as alcohol abuse.

Yes Lovell panicked, which anyone is capable of doing. But panicking while holding a baseball bat as a weapon is less potential for tragedy them panicking while holding a gun. It's literally the difference between life and death.

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ORIGINAL: Edwird

You can bet that with how things turned out, the police will need very little effort at convincing the other 15 yr. old to point to the alcohol provider. We'll probably know by tomorrow.

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ORIGINAL: Lookin4Lace

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I personally have survived 2 home invasions at gunpoint. In once instance I had 4 kids in the house. In neither did the cops/DA prosecute anyone. (I think one was because I was military during the Nam War - They recovered the gun in that one). Both in Cali. If they are on the outside of the door, you don't shoot. Never know who is out there. Onchttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1347133/Disabled-man-banned-using-road-tank-wheelchair-killjoy-DVLA-chiefs.htmlww.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1347133/Disabled-man-banned-using-road-tank-wheelchair-killjoy-DVLA-chiefs.html, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1347133/Disabled-man-banned-using-road-tank-wheelchair-killjoy-DVLA-chiefs.htmleither thru the door or a window, that is a different story. Now they are a real threat. And my outside dog is useless because he just wants to play with them. My inside dogs are my warning system. They are ankle biters lol.

I understand the fear factor involved. I don't understand shooting thru a door. Be ready, yes. I have been shot at and it is no fun. I don't want to put anyone thru that. At the same time, preparedness is understandable. That is why they call it responsible gun ownership. I can't hunt any longer. I don't have a full tracked wheelchair (does anyone know where I can get one?). I do go to the range to shoot at engineer stakes to keep my profeciency up. I also practice the old Army Quick Kill training (https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Quick-Kill-Instinct-accurately/dp/1493725688) Keeps habits honed. And BB Gun ammo is cheap.

Pertaining to the tracked wheel chair question there are 2 versions i am aware of , 1 version is of a 6wheel cantilever design similar to a scissor.jack.layed.on ots side and the driver sits between 6 oversized tundra type.tires and are 6wd with sand paddlesu can be taken for a swim and used in water, the other i know of is a tracked design, follow this link name of MFG is listed in the arcticle, sorry for some reason my cut paste isnt working, anyways there is a 3rd and a 4th option, you might consider contacting MATTRACKS and see if they can accomodate your needs, if not the only other thing i can think of is in the 1960's there was a short squat tubbed 6wheels drive buggy that allowed the rear to lower down a ramp and a wheel chair bound person could drive into the back of it and drive it like a car, and was also amphibious aswell.

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

FR
Sad, but entirely understandable. A justified shoot to my eye.

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ORIGINAL: Edwird

You can bet that with how things turned out, the police will need very little effort at convincing the other 15 yr. old to point to the alcohol provider. We'll probably know by tomorrow.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Of course there has to be some threat. Like trying to steal your car

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961




Now in rural areas, it is a bit different, you can use deadly force if someone is trying to steal livestock, damage barns or outbuildings

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

FR
Sad, but entirely understandable. A justified shoot to my eye.

This you see as justified?

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ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961




Now in rural areas, it is a bit different, you can use deadly force if someone is trying to steal livestock, damage barns or outbuildings

I find this obscene too, the lack of value placed on human life by some people disgusts me

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

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ORIGINAL: Edwird

You can bet that with how things turned out, the police will need very little effort at convincing the other 15 yr. old to point to the alcohol provider. We'll probably know by tomorrow.

Depends, when I was that age I got my booze from bikers, so not a hope in Hell I would tell the cops where I got it.

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I wonder how she is going to react when she discovers that everything on her computer is no longer in English?

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

But you see, this is the legacy of an American 'tradition' This is the 'American culture' where the 2nd amend. is the enabler.

I have a right to own guns.

I have a right to defend my home.

I have a right to call the police.

I have a right to shoot to kill and even before the police arrive.

Another attempt to trash all gun owners because one person screwed up.
And other than me not one word about underage drinking which set the situation up.

Not true. I brought it up in my post that you responded to. I said they were irresponsible for drinking. But that doesn't equal a death sentence.

Sorry, I missed that. I apologize. And again I have stated two or three times that none of this gives the home owner a pass.
We have two serious problems independant of each other. Underage drinking leads to a lot of deaths. And this guy screwed up big time. Neither is negated in any way by the other. ** The kid would be alive if he hadn't been drunk.** The kid would be alive if the homeowner hadn't screwed up.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

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ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961




Now in rural areas, it is a bit different, you can use deadly force if someone is trying to steal livestock, damage barns or outbuildings

I find this obscene too, the lack of value placed on human life by some people disgusts me

I agree, the value of human life is absurdly high.

We are after all talking about a species that (ignoring climate change) has so polluted the planet there are some rivers that spontaneously catch fire, we are averaging wiping out five species a year, minimum, and with all the environmental destruction we have inflicted on this planet, we are finding new and improved ways of killing each other for the same old bullshit reasons.

The human body is worth about $160 bucks for its mineral content, the average human materially driven ethically challenged life, about 97 cents at the current rate per bullet in large quantities, but then some wise people have opted to use trucks.

And yes I am being cynical, snarky and down right mean, but my truck is in the shop, FED EX lost the new distributor for my Kaiser jeep and I am out of smokes and coffee, and my niece who dropped off her laptop this afternoon saying "I will be back in an hour with your smokes and coffee" has yet to show up, she has evidently decided that she needed to go shopping for new jeans and a shirt.

I wonder how she is going to react when she discovers that everything on her computer is no longer in English?

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like knocking on doors when they are not drinking just for kicks, not to mention adults that mistakenly knock on the wrong door.

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ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

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ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Of course there has to be some threat. Like trying to steal your car

I have been thinking of buying a new car for a while now, the one I'm driving now has done 140k, the stereo is bust and both the headlamps are looking a bit dodgy.
It's probably only worth £1k. Mind you I've owned some right pieces of crap in the past. The 1st car I bought cost me £100, which 30 years ago was quite a lot of money to me.
But the idea that I would have shot someone for messing with it is absurd, no it's ridiculous, no hang on, it's fucking obscene.

I find that obscene.

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As a result, I m insisting that they educate (or see that he is educated) him about safe and responsible ownership.

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The home owner is responsible for his actions just as the kids supplier is responsible, both should be facing charges for their parts in this.

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

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like knocking on doors when they are not drinking just for kicks, not to mention adults that mistakenly knock on the wrong door.

They rarely do so hard enough to break a window.

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

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As a result, I m insisting that they educate (or see that he is educated) him about safe and responsible ownership.

Gun safety should be a required course in high school (or Jr High).

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The home owner is responsible for his actions just as the kids supplier is responsible, both should be facing charges for their parts in this.

The kid is also responsible for his actions, last time it came up being drunk was not an excuse.