quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Yes, they can be found; but they are sooo few in number compared to the downside of tens of thousands on the other side of the fence.

And you know this how?

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).

On the other hand, some scholars point to a radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.

A different issue is whether defensive uses of guns, however numerous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gun-wielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was "used" by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies (Kleck, 1988; Kleck and DeLone, 1993; Southwick, 2000; Tark and Kleck, 2004).

Source: National Research Council

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Yes, they can be found; but they are sooo few in number compared to the downside of tens of thousands on the other side of the fence.

If the American media was as supportive of the 2nd as we are lead to believe, why aren't these events splashed across every media outlet in the country??
I'll tell you why: they are so few and far between that those stats are as rare as rocking horse shit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

My eyesight isn't as good as it was in those days but it was something I did with regularity.

quote:

If defense using firearms aren't newsworthy, that's a problem with your media.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

My eyesight isn't as good as it was in those days but it was something I did with regularity.

Bullshit. You can't even SEE a 1cm object at 400 yards. Claiming to regularly hit one with a pellet gun at that range is ludicrous.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nthrall

Why do we never hear about people who have successfully defended themselves with their guns?

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

My eyesight isn't as good as it was in those days but it was something I did with regularity.

Bullshit. You can't even SEE a 1cm object at 400 yards. Claiming to regularly hit one with a pellet gun at that range is ludicrous.

Maybe you can't - but I could.
And until the last 15 years I still could.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nthrall

Why do we never hear about people who have successfully defended themselves with their guns?

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

Libs constantly piss and moan about Americans having guns. Guns are used for personal protection. The police a get there AFTER a crime has already been committed, not while the crime is in progress. So when you are staring down the barrel of a gun and only have seconds to live, the police are minutes away.

The point that you and other gun nuts can't seem to grasp is that if, in general, the populace don't have guns, your assailant is also not likely to have guns either.
In other words, you wouldn't be staring down the barrel of a gun in most situations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC
But in the wake of the past few weeks events, when is the leftists going to start a movement on "truck" control? Are we going to need background checks before we can drive one?

Don't you have that already??
Aren't you supposed to have had proper training and obtained a license to drive before you are allowed on the road?
Or do you also get your licenses from the local Chinese fortune cookies?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC
How many lives could have been saved if ONE person with a gun could have shot out a tire or two?

And how many times do we see this argument put forward as a reason for having guns?
And where the fuck are they when this sort of thing goes down??
Fucking nowhere! Not a decent law-abiding gun-owning citizen to be seen.
It's a farcical and useless argument.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC
And now I hear that in Germany a man killed people with a knife. Are we going to have "knife control?"

In most civilized countries that have decent gun laws also have knife laws too.
Don't you have them??

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC
My point is clear. The world is full of bad people who do bad things. Having a gun gives you a fighting chance to protect yourself from the bad guys. It's just that simple.

The point is clear; if you didn't have guns in public places, people wouldn't get shot.
That's pretty simple to understand. No?

quote:

Tell that to France and the people on the German train.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Convening a convention runs the risk of changing the whole freakin government.

Given the current state of affairs in the US, is that such a bad thing??

What would you envision as a replacement?

Another party not scared of radical change - for better or worse.
Let's face it, it can't get any worse than a 2-horse race where both parties aren't really wanted with the same-old rhetoric across the board.

Well, pshew man, you do not need a constitutional convention for that. There are four or five parties vying for the current presidential prize.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nthrall

Why do we never hear about people who have successfully defended themselves with their guns?

ive posted some of those, and so have others.

if you go looking online, you will indeed find them.

if your question is indeed genuine as opposed to hidden sarcasm---"why indeed" is a good question.

Yes, they can be found; but they are sooo few in number compared to the downside of tens of thousands on the other side of the fence.

If the American media was as supportive of the 2nd as we are lead to believe, why aren't these events splashed across every media outlet in the country??
I'll tell you why: they are so few and far between that those stats are as rare as rocking horse shit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Yes, they can be found; but they are sooo few in number compared to the downside of tens of thousands on the other side of the fence.

And you know this how?

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).

On the other hand, some scholars point to a radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.

A different issue is whether defensive uses of guns, however numerous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gun-wielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was "used" by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies (Kleck, 1988; Kleck and DeLone, 1993; Southwick, 2000; Tark and Kleck, 2004).

Source: National Research Council

K.

i came and looked and ..here you go...btw why are you still relying on a 23 yr old five thousand person survey (of which there were only 63 actual responses in the positive, that they "extrapolate the figures.
Why isnt there a more recent, deeper, bigger study with reliable methodology.?????
The fact that you keep throwing up this shit is just another bunch of drivel.
http://www.armedwithreason.com/debunking-the-defensive-gun-use-myth/