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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 1:49:25 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		The figures from the extremists were total of the world.
For any sort of fair comparison, you need to take similar figures for the US; ie, the total, not massaged and manipulated figures.

Lets remove those extremist deaths that weren't caused by guns shall we?
That'll make it a fairer comparison.
So we'll exclude suicide bombers, car bombs, IUD traps, beheadings etc.
Not many left that were killed by extremist guns.
The US would be waay and beyond in a comparison.

Not fair you'd say??
Then don't cherry-pick the numbers.
Use the published totals, not massaged numbers.

You can't remove the shit from stats that you don't like.


And may I remind you of your post??
"if you exclude.....the U.S. has one of the lowest gun crime homicide rates in the world"
Umm. Not true; not even by your own link.


< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 7/19/2016 1:53:37 PM >

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(in reply to Nnanji)
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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 2:13:28 PM   
Nnanji


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

The figures from the extremists were total of the world.
For any sort of fair comparison, you need to take similar figures for the US; ie, the total, not massaged and manipulated figures.

Lets remove those extremist deaths that weren't caused by guns shall we?
That'll make it a fairer comparison.
So we'll exclude suicide bombers, car bombs, IUD traps, beheadings etc.
Not many left that were killed by extremist guns.
The US would be waay and beyond in a comparison.

Not fair you'd say??
Then don't cherry-pick the numbers.
Use the published totals, not massaged numbers.

You can't remove the shit from stats that you don't like.


And may I remind you of your post??
"if you exclude.....the U.S. has one of the lowest gun crime homicide rates in the world"
Umm. Not true; not even by your own link.


Hum, the voices are very load today aren't they. Well, you can distort facts all you want and ignore truths. You can make up anything your voices tell you to and I can't help you with that. Have at it, it seems to be your comfort zone.

Yes, read your quote of what I said..."one of the lowest". 111 out of 119 is one of the lowest. Thank you for restating my point, even if you're having trouble understanding it.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 2:36:04 PM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline 		notice how the sophists avoid me dear reader for they are bereft of all knowledge and woebegone of mind, yet like to tool up in guns and waffle malarkey whilst citing variants of their second amendment word for word(yet Ive not seen one quote varints on here other than me)....one can never argue with sophists, delusions woebegone fuknuts - dear read - which is why I would hurl the lot into a volcano, yes its filled wit irate piranhas, yes they are wrapped in tinfoil to save on continuity errors. And then I will show their women a real man and invoke deep dark orgasms that blows them asunder

For that is my way

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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 4:24:44 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/12/04/the-number-of-americans-vs-the-number-of-guns-in-america-visualized-through-history/

Using the chart for 2014 as a starting point the guns to population is approximately 116/100.

http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/

Using the data here, approximately 1/10000 deaths by guns (62% of which are by suicide).

I did browse for the number of countries that outlawed guns and couldn't find any. Most countries did have some form of restriction.

Why is it that only this country (sometimes UK and GE and more recently FR) is discussed?

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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 5:16:02 PM   
Blank101


Posts: 130
Joined: 9/15/2011
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

So remind me: which tyrannical united states government has been deposed by an armed population since the declaration of independence?
I always find it a bit odd that one gets used as a justification given that most of the people who whine about unconstitutional/unelected governments won't even leave the country in a snit, never mind do anything about a president shitting on the constitution and wiping his arse with the bill of rights afterwards.


What? All I did was explain the purpose that the second amendment served when it was added to the Constitution many years ago. I suppose that a select few tried to overthrow a 'tyrannical government' in the mid 1860's, but thankfully they failed.

Nowadays, the second ammendment serves a bit of a different purpose imo, but should the US government decide, heaven forbid, to ENSLAVE ITS CITIZENS, well then we have our muskets and cannons to retake the White House.

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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 5:18:26 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blank101

240 years ago: Government tyranny

Today: Self-defense

So remind me: which tyrannical united states government has been deposed by an armed population since the declaration of independence?
I always find it a bit odd that one gets used as a justification given that most of the people who whine about unconstitutional/unelected governments won't even leave the country in a snit, never mind do anything about a president shitting on the constitution and wiping his arse with the bill of rights afterwards.

Have you ever heard of Great Britian? Our governments learned from that.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 5:21:28 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		We can have guns just like the US.

If that is true why do you gripe when you have the same restrictions we do?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 5:25:08 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		The point that you and other gun nuts can't seem to grasp is that if, in general, the populace don't have guns, your assailant is also not likely to have guns either.
In other words, you wouldn't be staring down the barrel of a gun in most situations.


Nope I am 65 with 80 year old legs, I would be facing someone a thrid my age with a knife. You want me to be helpless.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 5:27:06 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Ever wonder why the Liberals/Leftists/etc haven't called for a Convention of the States so they can repeal the 2nd Amendment?
Nope,
haven't wondered about that because any idiot knows you do not convene a convention to nullify an amendment. You pass a contravening amendment.

Convening a convention runs the risk of changing the whole freakin government.

They also haven't offered a contravening amendment.


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 5:28:23 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
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quote:

Have you ever heard of Great Britian? Our governments learned from that.

Precisely, they learned so well that they used overwhelming military force to enforce their taxes.

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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 5:29:04 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Convening a convention runs the risk of changing the whole freakin government.

Given the current state of affairs in the US, is that such a bad thing??

Yes, we should follow the Constitution as written.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 5:31:35 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Convening a convention runs the risk of changing the whole freakin government.

Given the current state of affairs in the US, is that such a bad thing??

What would you envision as a replacement?

Another party not scared of radical change - for better or worse.
Let's face it, it can't get any worse than a 2-horse race where both parties aren't really wanted with the same-old rhetoric across the board.


The two greatest emplymentors of change in the 20th century were Hitler and Mao.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 5:32:05 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline
quote:

Yes, we should follow the Constitution as written.

Well, as written, it allows for it to be changed, so why not change it?

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 5:35:14 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nthrall

Why do we never hear about people who have successfully defended themselves with their guns?


ive posted some of those, and so have others.

if you go looking online, you will indeed find them.

if your question is indeed genuine as opposed to hidden sarcasm---"why indeed" is a good question.

Yes, they can be found; but they are sooo few in number compared to the downside of tens of thousands on the other side of the fence.

If the American media was as supportive of the 2nd as we are lead to believe, why aren't these events splashed across every media outlet in the country??
I'll tell you why: they are so few and far between that those stats are as rare as rocking horse shit.


No they are not, even Blumeberg has admitted that half a million crimes a year are stoped by gun owners, obviously virtually everyone else puts the number much higher.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 5:36:45 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Yes, we should follow the Constitution as written.

Well, as written, it allows for it to be changed, so why not change it?

The fact that it can be changed is not, in and of it's self , as reason to change it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 5:55:54 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Yes, they can be found; but they are sooo few in number compared to the downside of tens of thousands on the other side of the fence.

If the American media was as supportive of the 2nd as we are lead to believe, why aren't these events splashed across every media outlet in the country??
I'll tell you why: they are so few and far between that those stats are as rare as rocking horse shit.

Not nearly the level of horse shit as your claims of prowess with an air rifle, Arnie Oakley.

The majority of defensive firearm uses don't result in pulling a trigger, much less killing someone. Such events generally aren't newsworthy.

And most often not reported. I have 4 such incidents myself.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 6:00:22 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

My eyesight isn't as good as it was in those days but it was something I did with regularity.
If you don't believe it, that's on you.
Spout all the crap you like about trajectory and I can prove (as scientists have done many times) that bees can't fly.

If defense using firearms aren't newsworthy, that's a problem with your media.
They certainly seem to highlight the bad news plenty enough.
And of course, the stats are showing that bad gun users outnumber the good ones by many an order of magnitude.
That's a fact that you can't argue.
There's waay too many deaths by guns in the US and there's waay too many irresponsible gun owners that shouldn't have one.
Until you sort that out, we'll continue to see deaths by guns caused by stupid people (some police included) on an almost daily basis that doesn't happen on such a scale anywhere else in the civilized world.


Not only can I argue that there are more good gun owners than bad ones, it is obvious to anyone who thinks.
There are over 100,000,000 gun owners in this country, if your statement had any validity we would have ten million firearms murders every year.
Defesive uses of firearms don't make the news for two reason.
One they result in less bloodshed
Two they don't fit the narrative as most in the media are leftest.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 6:03:32 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Tell that to France and the people on the German train.

Well to be honest here, the truck driver guy did have a gun, and nobody was shot on the German train except the guy with the axe.

He killed 84 people with the truck, but by all means blame the gun in his waistband.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 6:08:07 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

FREEDOMDWARF1: The point that you and other gun nuts can't seem to grasp is that if, in general, the populace don't have guns, your assailant is also not likely to have guns either. In other words, you wouldn't be staring down the barrel of a gun in most situations.


France is a "gun-free" country, is it not? And yet a bad guy with a gun killed how many innocent people in Paris? A criminal doesn't care if it's against the law to have a gun. The gunman was out to murder people. Do you really think gun control laws would have changed his mind? Really?

As otter said, France is not a gun free country.
There are no 'gun free' countries in the EU that I know of.

So a bad guy managed to kill a few people.
Any laws won't obliterate the problem.
What it does do is minimize it quite dramatically.

Even with the atrocities that have happened in France lately, compare that to the US figures.
It's a no-brainer. Laws work. You just don't want to accept that.


The only mass killings that we have had that exceeded 84 didn't use guns.
One used fertelizer, one used gassoline, and one used airplanes.
And the Paris attacks are only exceeded here by 911, fix your problems, don't worry about ours.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 6:08:27 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline 		Three, there are still too many people dying through firearms in the US. If it isn't the easy availability of said firearms, then what is it?
Personally I think it is a cultural love of violence and the heroization (yeah I know that's not a word but I can't think of the word that means making a hero out of) of the lone gunman/outlaw.

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

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Profile   Post #: 100
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