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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 11:57:54 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

FREEDOMDWARF1: The point that you and other gun nuts can't seem to grasp is that if, in general, the populace don't have guns, your assailant is also not likely to have guns either. In other words, you wouldn't be staring down the barrel of a gun in most situations.


France is a "gun-free" country, is it not? And yet a bad guy with a gun killed how many innocent people in Paris? A criminal doesn't care if it's against the law to have a gun. The gunman was out to murder people. Do you really think gun control laws would have changed his mind? Really?

As otter said, France is not a gun free country.
There are no 'gun free' countries in the EU that I know of.

So a bad guy managed to kill a few people.
Any laws won't obliterate the problem.
What it does do is minimize it quite dramatically.

Even with the atrocities that have happened in France lately, compare that to the US figures.
It's a no-brainer. Laws work. You just don't want to accept that.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 12:03:31 PM   
MasterBrentC


Posts: 223
Joined: 3/15/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

FREEDOMDWARF1: The point that you and other gun nuts can't seem to grasp is that if, in general, the populace don't have guns, your assailant is also not likely to have guns either. In other words, you wouldn't be staring down the barrel of a gun in most situations.


France is a "gun-free" country, is it not? And yet a bad guy with a gun killed how many innocent people in Paris? A criminal doesn't care if it's against the law to have a gun. The gunman was out to murder people. Do you really think gun control laws would have changed his mind? Really?

As otter said, France is not a gun free country.
There are no 'gun free' countries in the EU that I know of.

So a bad guy managed to kill a few people.
Any laws won't obliterate the problem.
What it does do is minimize it quite dramatically.

Even with the atrocities that have happened in France lately, compare that to the US figures.
It's a no-brainer. Laws work. You just don't want to accept that.



Laws work? Really? We do have laws against murder and look at all the dead bodies. Maybe we should be discussing the real problem, "Radical Muslim Extremists"

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 12:06:19 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Yes, they can be found; but they are sooo few in number compared to the downside of tens of thousands on the other side of the fence.

If the American media was as supportive of the 2nd as we are lead to believe, why aren't these events splashed across every media outlet in the country??
I'll tell you why: they are so few and far between that those stats are as rare as rocking horse shit.

Not nearly the level of horse shit as your claims of prowess with an air rifle, Arnie Oakley.

The majority of defensive firearm uses don't result in pulling a trigger, much less killing someone. Such events generally aren't newsworthy.

ROTFLMAO...no shit, she claimed that? I can't even begin to explain the impossibility. But if she'd like to provide the exact pellet type and the muzzle velocity of the pellet I'll run it through the ballistic calculator on my phone and show it's impossible. Well, not impossible per se, more outlandish. As a matter of fact I did find the pellet with the highest ballistic coefficient made, plugged that in with a 1,000 fps muzzle (only obtainable on a very high end pellet gun and not conducive to accuracy) velocity and a 5 mph 90 degree wind and performed a trajectory calculation to 400 yards an a wind drift chart to 400 yards. The ballistic calculator said both scenarios were impossible to calculate, which is the first time I ever saw that error message in the calculator. I didn't even know it would give that error message until now. And, basically saying a steel pellet would have better performance than a lead target pellet is so...I don't know how to describe the utter ignorance of it.

Pretty much not just BS, but made up voices in the head fantasy.

< Message edited by Nnanji -- 7/19/2016 12:25:38 PM >

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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 12:19:36 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

My eyesight isn't as good as it was in those days but it was something I did with regularity.

Bullshit. You can't even SEE a 1cm object at 400 yards. Claiming to regularly hit one with a pellet gun at that range is ludicrous.

quote:

If defense using firearms aren't newsworthy, that's a problem with your media.

News media has been broken for a very, very long time. This is not, no pun intended, news.


I took three years to build an antelope rifle for long distance antelope hunting. Three years of defining loads, tuning parts, and practice, practice, practice shooting long distance. I was joined in the endeavor by a friend who used to shoot on the .marine Corp Rifle team, signifying him to be one of the finest marksmen in the world. Once I had the rifle tuned I took the high powered scope off and sent it to a company in Virgina to modify. That company regularly modifies rifle scopes for the Marines and other law enforcement and military agencies. After all of that, I would not even attempt to claim that I could hit a one cm target at 400 more than...say...one out of ten times, nor could my buddy. And the one time I did hit that mark, I'd be prudent to call it a fluke. And that's with a high power over $2,000 rifle scope, not with iron sights. This statement is so outlandish, I'll put up the cost of travel from there to here and $5,000 bet to Freedomdwarf. It's all yours, a no expense trip here and $5,000 to come here with your open sighted pellet rifle and I'll give you ten shots to hit a one cm target at 400 yards. If you can't do it, then you pay me for the trip and admit on here publicly you're full of shit and don't even have to pay me $5,000 on the bet.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 12:22:47 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Tell that to France and the people on the German train.

Well to be honest here, the truck driver guy did have a gun, and nobody was shot on the German train except the guy with the axe.

True...I did read one news article where the truck guy was firing the gun out the window as he was plowing people down. I'm still waiting to read if any of the injured were bullet wounds, either from the driver or the police stopping the truck.

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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 12:22:59 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

FREEDOMDWARF1: The point that you and other gun nuts can't seem to grasp is that if, in general, the populace don't have guns, your assailant is also not likely to have guns either. In other words, you wouldn't be staring down the barrel of a gun in most situations.


France is a "gun-free" country, is it not? And yet a bad guy with a gun killed how many innocent people in Paris? A criminal doesn't care if it's against the law to have a gun. The gunman was out to murder people. Do you really think gun control laws would have changed his mind? Really?

As otter said, France is not a gun free country.
There are no 'gun free' countries in the EU that I know of.

So a bad guy managed to kill a few people.
Any laws won't obliterate the problem.
What it does do is minimize it quite dramatically.

Even with the atrocities that have happened in France lately, compare that to the US figures.
It's a no-brainer. Laws work. You just don't want to accept that.



Laws work? Really? We do have laws against murder and look at all the dead bodies. Maybe we should be discussing the real problem, "Radical Muslim Extremists"



Marine Corps veterans are now radical muslim extremists?

_____________________________

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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 12:23:45 PM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC
Laws work? Really? We do have laws against murder and look at all the dead bodies. Maybe we should be discussing the real problem, "Radical Muslim Extremists"

Tim McVeigh was a moslem?

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to MasterBrentC)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 12:25:11 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC
Laws work? Really? We do have laws against murder and look at all the dead bodies. Maybe we should be discussing the real problem, "Radical Muslim Extremists"

The US has never had a nationwide set of severe gun restrictions that the rest of the civilized world now enjoy.
The stats prove that they work.

If you think the problem is radical Muslim extremists, you have a reality problem.
Compare the number of deaths all over the world by radicals to the US deaths by gun.
Yes, they kill people and most of us don't like what they do.
Americans kill more people in the US than extremists the world over.

According to Mail Online: A total of 32,658 people were killed by terrorists around the world in 2014 - an 80 per cent increase on the previous year, according to the Global Terrorism Index.
According to The Trace: According to the Gun Violence Archive (GVA), a nonprofit website that scours more than 1,200 sources to track gun deaths and injuries in the United States, there have been more than 50,000 incidents of gun violence in 2015.
The organization’s records show that more than 12,000 people have been killed with guns this year, but what its numbers do not record — due to government reporting practices — is a massive hole in the data: the nearly 20,000 Americans who end their lives with a gun each year.

So the extremists aren't as bad as American citizens carrying guns.
ETA: That's a disgusting fact that the US should be ashamed of.


< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 7/19/2016 12:30:59 PM >

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to MasterBrentC)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 12:26:02 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
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quote:

Tim McVeigh was a moslem?

Just asking questions....

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Not your average bimbo.

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 12:31:20 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC
Laws work? Really? We do have laws against murder and look at all the dead bodies. Maybe we should be discussing the real problem, "Radical Muslim Extremists"

The US has never had a nationwide set of severe gun restrictions that the rest of the civilized world now enjoy.
The stats prove that they work.

If you think the problem is radical Muslim extremists, you have a reality problem.
Compare the number of deaths all over the world by radicals to the US deaths by gun.
Yes, they kill people and most of us don't like what they do.
Americans kill more people in the US than extremists the world over.

According to Mail Online: A total of 32,658 people were killed by terrorists around the world in 2014 - an 80 per cent increase on the previous year, according to the Global Terrorism Index.
According to The Trace: According to the Gun Violence Archive (GVA), a nonprofit website that scours more than 1,200 sources to track gun deaths and injuries in the United States, there have been more than 50,000 incidents of gun violence in 2015.
The organization’s records show that more than 12,000 people have been killed with guns this year, but what its numbers do not record — due to government reporting practices — is a massive hole in the data: the nearly 20,000 Americans who end their lives with a gun each year.

So the extremists aren't as bad as American citizens carrying guns.


Actually, if you exclude suicides an gang bangers killing each other in Chicago, Detroit, Wasgington DC, and New Orleans the U.S. has one of the lowest gun crime homicide rates in the world. It is not reasonable to use statistic you don't understand to argue a silly point about our laws about which you know nothing.

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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 12:33:58 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		You don't exclude bits from facts that you don't like.

And you think it's the lowest gun homicide rate in the world??
Go look at the stats again - you're dead wrong; it's one of the highest in the civilized world.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 12:35:10 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Tim McVeigh was a moslem?

Just asking questions....

Actually, McVeigh was Army, I believe, and he did try to present exculpatory evidence at his trial that he had help from Mideast foreigners which the judge disallowed in the trial so it was never discussed. Which in hindsight seems interesting.

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 12:39:10 PM   
Nnanji


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Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

You don't exclude bits from facts that you don't like.

And you think it's the lowest gun homicide rate in the world??
Go look at the stats again - you're dead wrong; it's one of the highest in the civilized world.


Just the first Google on the list. You can find your own...but you won't because you want to believe the voices in your head.

http://www.mythdebunk.com/us-3rd-in-murders/


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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 12:46:52 PM   
SunDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

civilized world



What does this term mean?

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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 12:51:42 PM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SunDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

civilized world



What does this term mean?

America, and countries that Americans like.
(Iran used to be a civilised country when the Shah was running it.)

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RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 12:54:02 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SunDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

civilized world



What does this term mean?

Clearly, as Dizzy says, from the context, a country that is overbearing and authoritarian enough to calm the fearful voices in her head.

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 1:19:36 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

You don't exclude bits from facts that you don't like.

And you think it's the lowest gun homicide rate in the world??
Go look at the stats again - you're dead wrong; it's one of the highest in the civilized world.


Just the first Google on the list. You can find your own...but you won't because you want to believe the voices in your head.

http://www.mythdebunk.com/us-3rd-in-murders/



From your own link -
The US is actually 8th in the world in murders, at 14,827 in 2012. Ahead of it are
Brazil: 50,108
India: 43,355
Nigeria: 33,817
Mexico: 26,037
Democratic Republic of the Congo: 18,586
South Africa: 16,259
Venezuela: 16,072

And that is just murders, not general gun deaths.
And none of those ahead of the US would be viewed as 'the civilized world'.

And you still maintain that the US has the lowest gun homicide rate in the world??
There are only 8 worst above it in over 280+ countries worldwide.

Is there something wrong with your comprehension?


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 1:31:24 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

You don't exclude bits from facts that you don't like.

And you think it's the lowest gun homicide rate in the world??
Go look at the stats again - you're dead wrong; it's one of the highest in the civilized world.


Just the first Google on the list. You can find your own...but you won't because you want to believe the voices in your head.

http://www.mythdebunk.com/us-3rd-in-murders/



From your own link -
The US is actually 8th in the world in murders, at 14,827 in 2012. Ahead of it are
Brazil: 50,108
India: 43,355
Nigeria: 33,817
Mexico: 26,037
Democratic Republic of the Congo: 18,586
South Africa: 16,259
Venezuela: 16,072

And that is just murders, not general gun deaths.
And none of those ahead of the US would be viewed as 'the civilized world'.

And you still maintain that the US has the lowest gun homicide rate in the world??
There are only 8 worst above it in over 280+ countries worldwide.

Is there something wrong with your comprehension?


Oh you poor dear, the list was truncated for room. On that list the U.S. Was 111th. Out of 119. Please get your glasses and open your mind while shutting off the voices.

< Message edited by Nnanji -- 7/19/2016 1:32:07 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 1:34:54 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		Read the quote near the top: "The US is actually 8th in the world in murders, at 14,827 in 2012".

Even if it were 111th, that still makes it higher than halfway up that list.

And if you actually read your link, they remove the biggest culprits from the figures to manipulate the result.
"So, removing the murders from those above cities moves the US..." and "The 2nd part states that removing those 4 cities, Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC, and New Orleans, would move the US from 3rd from top to 4th from last..."
Typical cherry-picking.

Lowest rate in the world???
PFFFTT!! Nowhere near it.


< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 7/19/2016 1:40:15 PM >

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: WHY DOES THE U.S NEED GUNS ? - 7/19/2016 1:42:09 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Read the quote near the top: "The US is actually 8th in the world in murders, at 14,827 in 2012".

Even if it were 111th, that still makes it higher than halfway up that list.

Lowest rate in the world???
PFFFTT!! Nowhere near it.


Yes it was...but what was my statement? Okay I'll tell you....when you exclude suicides and gang bangers killing each other in four cities, Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC, and New Orleans, then the U.S. has a very low rate. Which is exactly what the second chart shows. I'm terribly sorry you can't understand the point, or refuse to because it doesn't comply with your koolaide. Now keep in mind that those four cities have been governed by extreme liberals with very restrictive gun laws for the last sixty years, you can see your erroneous beliefs make no more sense than do your shooting prowess claims.

Oh...and I never said lowest, that was the voices in your head. But number 111 out of 119 is low.

< Message edited by Nnanji -- 7/19/2016 1:44:59 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 80
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