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RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 11:06:26 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		That bit doesn't change the meaning when applied to our own does it?!

The actions are still deliberate and unprovoked.
[ETA: They are following orders given by those we hold in high esteem to lead our military]

So 'splain to me why its fine on our side but evil on theirs and that they are mentally unhinged??

Smacks of dual standards to me.


< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 7/27/2016 11:09:26 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 11:14:28 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I can easily see the difference between a man running women and children down in the streets and accidental innocent deaths in a drone attack or in a war returning hostile fire. Individuals may perform atrocities but one ideology calls for them and the other mandates avoidance of them... which do you think is which?

Butch

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RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 11:21:47 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

To be a terrorist and have that mentality requires an extremely strong conviction that you are doing right according to your belief.
To actually carry that into actions also requires a very strong and solidly determined mindset.
That's not the type of mind you'd find in someone who is mentally ill.
Most people don't have the courage or single-mindedness to go from fantasy to reality - that takes real balls and steely determination.
Even more so when you are pretty certain that you are going to die in the process; that takes unprecedented and dedicated devotion.


People who become radicalized are often gullible lonely adults looking to be excepted by someone/anyone. All it takes is a good manipulator working on someone’s weakness. All they need are the misfits who sympathize to the cause. Once they have their mind they have a new recruit. People with unstable personalities are neither ballsy or brave, they are just new believers of the cause and acceptance leads to dedication

quote:


ETA: By all means, use mental illness as a limp excuse for their behaviour. That's what the populace want to hear rather than the fact that the misfit perp just didn't like us for whatever reason his goal was.
It's psychology. We don't like to hear that we were shunned in some way, so the do-gooders find a convenient scapegoat way to explain the actions to save our delicate little ego's.


Its nothing to do with a scape-goating. The perpetrators are not only those who commit an act of terrorism; those doing the online grooming are the clever ones who live to plot another day. We have to ask, why, with all the security and spying the West now owns, aren’t we catching and eliminating these terror groups who are radicalizing stray wolves? This is no different than the cops going after some small time dealer whilst ignoring where he got his supplies from.



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RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 11:22:29 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I can easily see the difference between a man running women and children down in the streets and accidental innocent deaths in a drone attack or in a war returning hostile fire. Individuals may perform atrocities but one ideology calls for them and the other mandates avoidance of them... which do you think is which?

Butch

So you think the ordering of attack drones and bombers that indescriminately kill innocents is nothing more than just acceptable collateral damage??
Seriously?????
I don't call that avoidance; I'd call that willful neglegance.

I'd say that ideology is far more dangerous than a few people doing the same but by hand.
Using a bomber or drone actually looks like cowardice by comparison.


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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 11:32:26 AM   
NorthernGent1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

WTF happened in Normandy?
Oh, that's easily answered. Islam. Islam happened in Normandy.

Muslims are like guns. The more you have in a country, the more murder that country experiences.

Simple, really.



Which isn't actually true, as demonstrated by the fact that per head muslims commit fewer murders than white members of our society.

That is on record.

These people cutting people's throats should of course be hanged, whatever their background.

But, it matters to be fair, and a few lunatics do not speak for the vast majority.

And, these events weren't happening before we started throwing our weight about in their countries.

The clear solution: leave these places.

These lunatics will still be lunatics, but they'll no longer have the Western vehicle for their violence.

They'll commit violent acts somewhere along the line because clearly the fuckers aren't a full shillin'.

But, if you think this is symptomatic of a case of muslims being more violent than anyone else then you couldn't be farther from the truth.






Post hoc ergo propter hoc? Nah
The intolerant violence is unchanged for 1400 years; the problem is they have emigrated.
The solution is death/banishment.
Let them kill each other



Again, not true.

Before 1500 it was actually Europe that was impoverished and a relatively backward continent when compared with the Islamic world.

The Islamic world was underpinned by trade and innovation, while European nations were riven by civil and religious strife.

Mate, you're all part of the system that says: "muslims are intent on violence while the West is outward looking" as if it is some innate characteristic.

History, as opposed to your ill-conceived, throw away comments with little substance, proves you wrong.

The system is this: "they're idiots, we need to bomb them because they're idiots" and when they fight back the system says: "told you, they're idiots". Completely oblivious to the fact we're fucking around in their countries, not the other way 'round.

All part of the system, mate.

How you and a few more can continue this line of argument with a straight face renders you fools or insane, probably both.


< Message edited by NorthernGent1 -- 7/27/2016 11:33:59 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 11:34:27 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		If that were the case but it is not... there is no doubt that innocents are killed... but indiscriminately is the key word that does not apply to our armed forces but certainly does to ISIS for instance.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 11:37:23 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
To be a terrorist and have that mentality requires an extremely strong conviction that you are doing right according to your belief.
To actually carry that into actions also requires a very strong and solidly determined mindset.
That's not the type of mind you'd find in someone who is mentally ill.
Most people don't have the courage or single-mindedness to go from fantasy to reality - that takes real balls and steely determination.
Even more so when you are pretty certain that you are going to die in the process; that takes unprecedented and dedicated devotion.


People who become radicalized are often gullible lonely adults looking to be excepted by someone/anyone.

When will people realise these jihadists are not being 'radicalized'??
When you have a group of people who are devoutly ensconced in their religion (like most Islamists are), it doesn't take much for someone to point out that living the western ideology is anathema to an Islamic way of life and thus by ignoring certain parts of Islam, they themselves are deemed an infidel - according to their holy book.

They aren't so much gullible as having their eyes opened.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
All it takes is a good manipulator working on someone’s weakness. All they need are the misfits who sympathize to the cause. Once they have their mind they have a new recruit.

Doesn't take a good manipulator - just a good believer of the faith to show that those in the west are living a lie.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
People with unstable personalities are neither ballsy or brave, they are just new believers of the cause and acceptance leads to dedication

Even dedication doesn't usually lead to enacting a foul deed (in our eyes).

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
ETA: By all means, use mental illness as a limp excuse for their behaviour. That's what the populace want to hear rather than the fact that the misfit perp just didn't like us for whatever reason his goal was.
It's psychology. We don't like to hear that we were shunned in some way, so the do-gooders find a convenient scapegoat way to explain the actions to save our delicate little ego's.


Its nothing to do with a scape-goating. The perpetrators are not only those who commit an act of terrorism; those doing the online grooming are the clever ones who live to plot another day.

I agree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
We have to ask, why, with all the security and spying the West now owns, aren’t we catching and eliminating these terror groups who are radicalizing stray wolves? This is no different than the cops going after some small time dealer whilst ignoring where he got his supplies from.

Good point.

Unfortunately, The US and others in the west are more concerned with infringing on personal liberties than nailing these jihadists and their leaders.


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 11:39:01 AM   
NorthernGent1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If that were the case but it is not... there is no doubt that innocents are killed... but indiscriminately is the key word that does not apply to our armed forces but certainly does to ISIS for instance.

Butch


This is the thing: we think it is acceptable to bomb someone's country, knowing full well that means leaving children without Mothers and rendering a lot of people homeless, and we justify that because: "they're idiots".

Now, you tell me who are the outright idiots?

I don't recall them bombing us.

I'm sure someone will come out with some bollocks about a book somewhere or '1400 years of violence' or something absolute, idiotic fantasy that completely ignores reality.

But, in the final analysis, it's that old principle that counts: evidence. They don't come here to rearrange our furniture and dig up the garden.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 11:42:44 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If that were the case but it is not... there is no doubt that innocents are killed... but indiscriminately is the key word that does not apply to our armed forces but certainly does to ISIS for instance.

Butch

Both sides are fighting an enemy.
The fact that our armed forces CHOOSE to bomb where civilians are, is willful indiscrimination.
It most certainly does apply to our forces.


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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 11:50:30 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		We shall have to disagree I suppose... I can say the US military policy does not purposely target innocents... at least in this conflict... and ISIS does.. it is just that simple.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/27/2016 11:51:00 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 11:50:37 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If that were the case but it is not... there is no doubt that innocents are killed... but indiscriminately is the key word that does not apply to our armed forces but certainly does to ISIS for instance.

Butch


This is the thing: we think it is acceptable to bomb someone's country, knowing full well that means leaving children without Mothers and rendering a lot of people homeless, and we justify that because: "they're idiots".

Now, you tell me who are the outright idiots?

I don't recall them bombing us.

Propaganda and good PR spin.

It's the age-old "we are good and they are bad" philosophy.

The difference is, we started it and complain that they retaliate.


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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 11:53:14 AM   
NorthernGent1


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Joined: 6/27/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If that were the case but it is not... there is no doubt that innocents are killed... but indiscriminately is the key word that does not apply to our armed forces but certainly does to ISIS for instance.

Butch


This is the thing: we think it is acceptable to bomb someone's country, knowing full well that means leaving children without Mothers and rendering a lot of people homeless, and we justify that because: "they're idiots".

Now, you tell me who are the outright idiots?

I don't recall them bombing us.

Propaganda and good PR spin.

It's the age-old "we are good and they are bad" philosophy.

The difference is, we started it and complain that they retaliate.



Well, yeah, you show me a people throughout history who took being shafted without retaliating. I can't think of such an instance.

Imagine if a country came here and started bombing the place: we'd be more than slightly disappointed.



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RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 11:54:52 AM   
NorthernGent1


Posts: 218
Joined: 6/27/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We shall have to disagree I suppose... I can say the US military policy does not purposely target innocents... at least in this conflict... and ISIS does.. it is just that simple.

Butch


You're that far gone you don't even know it.

You'll go to your grave with no clue.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 11:55:40 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Oh I don't know i lived it how about you?

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 11:59:35 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We shall have to disagree I suppose... I can say the US military policy does not purposely target innocents... at least in this conflict... and ISIS does.. it is just that simple.

Butch

Maybe we don't target 'innocents' in the same way, but we most certainly pick targets where innocents are prevalent.
In some cases, in has been revealed that there were no military targets where we have bombed.
As far as ISIS, AQ, Taliban etc are concerned, anyone not of Islamic faith is a legitimate military target.
Just like in the Vietnam War - anyone who was, or looked like, a Vietnamese, was a legit target and had no further thoughts than to kill, rape or torture them.
They weren't even considered as human by those in command.
I see no difference with the Islamists.

I don't accept that 'collateral damage' makes it any different when the targets have been willfully chosen and willfully engaged - it's not an accident.


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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 12:00:17 PM   
NorthernGent1


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Joined: 6/27/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Oh I don't know i lived it how about you?



Either you lack empathy, you're brainwashed, you're insane; or a combination thereof.

Only a complete psychopath would argue that it is acceptable to bomb countries because 'we don't target civilians', when a burrow owl would grasp this would lead to many, many homeless and dead people, which is evidential at the click of a button were you to afford your brain the courtesy of thinking; and then somehow turn it into 'we're the good guys' (in American speak).

I mean, you need your fucking head reading.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 12:00:53 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Thus is war

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 12:06:05 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1
Well, yeah, you show me a people throughout history who took being shafted without retaliating. I can't think of such an instance.

Imagine if a country came here and started bombing the place: we'd be more than slightly disappointed.

I quite agree NG.

Yet we are calling them unsavioury savages for wanting to do so.
Bit ironic don'cha think?

Then on top of that, we make excuses such as 'mentally disturbed' or 'radicalized' to justify and explain away what they are doing so we can unleash even more damage upon them.


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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 12:09:31 PM   
NorthernGent1


Posts: 218
Joined: 6/27/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1
Well, yeah, you show me a people throughout history who took being shafted without retaliating. I can't think of such an instance.

Imagine if a country came here and started bombing the place: we'd be more than slightly disappointed.

I quite agree NG.

Yet we are calling them unsavioury savages for wanting to do so.
Bit ironic don'cha think?

Then on top of that, we make excuses such as 'mentally disturbed' or 'radicalized' to justify and explain away what they are doing so we can unleash even more damage upon them.



On the plus side, the posters on this thread have lived among muslims and know everything about them. In fact, how they've lived to tell the tale is a freak of nature, considering the muslim propensity to kill anything that moves.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 12:10:07 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Thus is war

But to be hood-winked and PR brainwashed into thinking we are any better than them is somewhat disingenuous and myopic and rather obtuse.


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Profile   Post #: 60
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