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RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 6:03:35 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If that were the case but it is not... there is no doubt that innocents are killed... but indiscriminately is the key word that does not apply to our armed forces but certainly does to ISIS for instance.

Butch


This is the thing: we think it is acceptable to bomb someone's country, knowing full well that means leaving children without Mothers and rendering a lot of people homeless, and we justify that because: "they're idiots".

Now, you tell me who are the outright idiots?

I don't recall them bombing us.

Propaganda and good PR spin.

It's the age-old "we are good and they are bad" philosophy.

The difference is, we started it and complain that they retaliate.


You remind me of the guy who said that if we didn't watch it the Arabs were going to strike back.

This happened after the Iranian Embassy
After the Lebanon barracks
After the Cole
After the bombing of the Trade Center
After the embassy bombings
And after 9/11 (not to be confused with the bombing of the World Trade Center).

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 6:34:25 PM   
Marini


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Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

The latest news about Adel Kermiche says he was born in France to Algerian parents. He had suffered from mental illness from the age of 6 and regularly hospitalized. Locals say, Kermiche was not very bright and very gullible. He would often be seen with visible signs of a mental disorder. His parents are none practicing Muslims.

He never managed to get into Syria and he could not be banned/deported from France because he is French.



Not even sure where to start here.
I would bet MORE than half of all the refugees are either depressed, suffering from PTSD, or any number of mental illnesses, so if they snap and decide to join isis, launch terror attacks, commit atrocities, horrifically murder a priest, and blow up half of Europe, due to they're being "mentally ill", good luck with that.

Depending on what source you use, 55% to 65% of those incarcerated have some form {any many are serious} of mental illness.
I am an advocate for expanding mental health facilities, mental health awareness, and I think it is one of the major issues in society,
that is severely and criminally not been addressed.
Society pays dearly for not putting more resources into addressing mental health issues.

Percentage of prisoners with mental illness

I have always assumed and thought most people realized that most terrorists ARE mentally ill.
NEWSFLASH!!! Most terrorists are mentally ill.

International policy digest - mental illness and terrorism



3 pages later, I don't see anyone addressing the conversation I had with Maria.
Is mental illness an "excuse" for terrorism?
I especially find issue with the fact most of the "mentally ill" terrorists, were cognitively aware enough to plan the attacks, locate and get the weapons, often leave some sort of manifesto, etc.
I would enjoy thoughts on labeling the terrorist in Germany at the mall, and the terrorist that murdered the priest, being labeled mentally ill.


< Message edited by Marini -- 7/27/2016 6:37:26 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 6:42:47 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Marini... I thought I did... there are murderers and then there are mentally ill murderers...both are murderers and should be treated as such. As you say any terrorist that can plan and carry out an attack is not hallucinating and may be mentally ill...but still a murderer...there should be no insanity defense for these animals.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 6:49:23 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Marini... I thought I did... there are murderers and then there are mentally ill murderers...both are murderers and should be treated as such. As you say any terrorist that can plan and carry out an attack is not hallucinating and may be mentally ill...but still a murderer...there should be no insanity defense for these animals.

Butch


Thank you Butch, I must have missed it.
I read pages of the usual talking points.
Thanks, we agree on this one.

Also, no one has mentioned that when these people that are "mentally ill" go berserk they become radicalized.
Why is that?





< Message edited by Marini -- 7/27/2016 6:58:29 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 6:54:04 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I think many of these people are marginalized in the European society and they lash out in the same way many mass murderers do...and religion is just a vehicle for their murderous revenge.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 7:01:27 PM   
Marini


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Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think many of these people are marginalized in the European society and they lash out in the same way many mass murderers do...and religion is just a vehicle for their murderous revenge.

Butch


If that is the link, and being "marginalized" is causing the "mental illness" and that is causing the radicalization......then ... well



< Message edited by Marini -- 7/27/2016 7:06:40 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 7:03:59 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I don't believe it causes the mental illness but it exasperates it.... It gives their rage a target.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/27/2016 7:08:24 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 7:07:51 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't believe it causes the mental illness but it exasperates it.

Butch


It may not actually "cause" it, but there is probably a link.

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/27/2016 7:11:20 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 7:10:19 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We shall have to disagree I suppose... I can say the US military policy does not purposely target innocents... at least in this conflict... and ISIS does.. it is just that simple.

Butch


You mean like when they sent a drone to kill THE SON of a terrorist just because of who he was ? Or when they say the collateral damage is OK because the people were shielding a terrorist ? Like they can evict someone who has a fucking machine gun. Or avoid walking down the same street.

Bullshit.

T^T

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 7:12:00 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You are listening to the wrong propaganda.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 7:19:05 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		World-wide involvement, a conundrum to say the least.
We are bringing in people from countries in which we are often still engaged in conflict with.
No easy answers here.
If we are honest, we know that everyone leaving does not want to live in the West.

Look, I know America has engaged in foolish foreign policies.
I was always against getting involved and went to many anti-war protests in the 90s and before and after 9/11.
I remember crying when Bush got us involved in Iraq, thus beginning our never going to end involvement.


What is the answer?

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/27/2016 7:57:42 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 7:23:18 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Thus is war


But the war in Syria is a civil war and not a war against the West. The West took opposing sides and made one the enemy and the other an ally. We are intervening in an in-house quarrel and have taken the side of the best investors. Why should we get to say who the enemy is?

The French resistance did some pretty barbaric things to Nazi and Mussolini soldiers. We hailed them heroes, The Germans called them evil barbarians. Who was right?


It is ALMOST a foregone conclusion that the insurrection in Syria was foreign financed.

Know the real reason the US did not intervene after "drawing the red line" ? It was not weakness or anything, it was the fact the Porton Down which is an expert on gas said that the gas used was not the type that Assad was know to have. How did they know that ? BECAUSE THEY SOLD IT TO HIM.

It was decided Assad had to go because he would not play ball with western oil companies and help them get access to a bigger part of the natural gas market in Europe. They never gave a shit about anything else. And now that they started this melee there, they blae Assad for every death on both sides.

What would this government do if they came here and started shit.

Like Milesovic, if he would have played ball with the west concerning the cadmium mines, this "ethnic cleansing" would have been called "restoring order" and in fact would never have happened. Western agents infiltrated the cadmium miners union and incited them to revolt. Try that in the US and see where it gets you.

People with a good moral base know law. Right from wrong. Religion and addiction to money fuck that all up.

T^T

(in reply to MariaB)
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RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 7:25:40 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Thus is war


But the war in Syria is a civil war and not a war against the West. The West took opposing sides and made one the enemy and the other an ally. We are intervening in an in-house quarrel and have taken the side of the best investors. Why should we get to say who the enemy is?

The French resistance did some pretty barbaric things to Nazi and Mussolini soldiers. We hailed them heroes, The Germans called them evil barbarians. Who was right?

We made it a war against the west by interfering.

Some of the people decided they didn't like the totalitarian regime of Assad Asswipe.
Assad decided to use chemical warfare and banned barrel bombs on his own people.
The US and the west decided this was unacceptable and stepped in to back the rebels.

The rest is a mess.
The jihadist extremists saw the opportunity and moved into the vacuum that it created.
The rest, as they say, is now history.




Wrong, Assad DID NOT use chems. Read my post supra.

T^T

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RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 7:44:27 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Do you remember how those of us that thought we should be more selective with who we allowed to emigrate to the US were called racist? Will I think the wisdom of that way of thinking is hitting home hard in the UE.

I do understand the suffering of the innocent but if there is a price to pay it should not be us paying it. I have never been for turning people away but I do believe that rather then open borders there should be humane refugee camps where people can be returned to their homes when hostilities end.

Refugee camps do not have to be hell holes... If they are properly supported and policed by the world body they can serve their purpose humanely.

Butch

Did they stop calling us racist, I missed that.


You wont find me refraining from calling you racist any time soon. As for Butch`s post, he cant even get his facts right, this guy grew up in Franceand wasnt a recent migrant. His parents are both professors who had reportedly taken him to the police at some point after he became radicalised. The police said there was nothing they could do, as he hadnt broken the law.




Wow, new information rather than opinion.

Seems the guy in Florida recently here had a good enough record to buy a gun.

You just can't stop this shit until you stop antagonizing people. People are saying Muslims are crazy, but it would be more apt to say they are mad - with anger.

And now it is too late. The fact is we are going to damnear commit genocide to attain any reasonably stable measure of peace. Just like when White Man took the US, they had to kill almost every last one of them. And that is what the Israelis will have to do to the Palestinians, reduce their numbers to the point of insignificancy.

Problem is there are like two billion of them, better pack a lunch.

And many of us never supported this shit. But we pay the price. Think of that when you get in a car and start the engine. We are told we benefited but we did not.

We PUT that theocracy in Iran. We PUT Saddam in power in Iraq. We are the reason OPEC was formed which put up a fake energy crisis to get the profits up, and western oil companies were fully involved in that as well.

Sure, they are mad, but angry mad. If left alone they would not even know of our existence. Like the slaves, they never even knew of the existence of Whites, and look at their experience with us. No wonder many of them are racist and even bigoted. I don't blame them. We fucked them over. Now of course they have a better life, but what would you think after all this shit happened to your ancestors ? I certainly would not be happy about it.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 7:49:05 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

The latest news about Adel Kermiche says he was born in France to Algerian parents. He had suffered from mental illness from the age of 6 and regularly hospitalized. Locals say, Kermiche was not very bright and very gullible. He would often be seen with visible signs of a mental disorder. His parents are none practicing Muslims.

He never managed to get into Syria and he could not be banned/deported from France because he is French.



Not even sure where to start here.
I would bet MORE than half of all the refugees are either depressed, suffering from PTSD, or any number of mental illnesses, so if they snap and decide to join isis, launch terror attacks, commit atrocities, horrifically murder a priest, and blow up half of Europe, due to they're being "mentally ill", good luck with that.

Depending on what source you use, 55% to 65% of those incarcerated have some form {any many are serious} of mental illness.
I am an advocate for expanding mental health facilities, mental health awareness, and I think it is one of the major issues in society,
that is severely and criminally not been addressed.
Society pays dearly for not putting more resources into addressing mental health issues.

Percentage of prisoners with mental illness

I have always assumed and thought most people realized that most terrorists ARE mentally ill.
NEWSFLASH!!! Most terrorists are mentally ill.

International policy digest - mental illness and terrorism



3 pages later, I don't see anyone addressing the conversation I had with Maria.
Is mental illness an "excuse" for terrorism?
I especially find issue with the fact most of the "mentally ill" terrorists, were cognitively aware enough to plan the attacks, locate and get the weapons, often leave some sort of manifesto, etc.
I would enjoy thoughts on labeling the terrorist in Germany at the mall, and the terrorist that murdered the priest, being labeled mentally ill.


No, of course it isn't. But the mentally ill may be particularly vulnerable to the "rational" of the terrorist. I don't see it so much as an excuse for their actions as an explination of why they went down such an evil path.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 7:52:34 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think many of these people are marginalized in the European society and they lash out in the same way many mass murderers do...and religion is just a vehicle for their murderous revenge.

Butch


If that is the link, and being "marginalized" is causing the "mental illness" and that is causing the radicalization......then ... well



Actually I think he meant that being mentally ill led to them being marginalized.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 7:55:16 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

The latest news about Adel Kermiche says he was born in France to Algerian parents. He had suffered from mental illness from the age of 6 and regularly hospitalized. Locals say, Kermiche was not very bright and very gullible. He would often be seen with visible signs of a mental disorder. His parents are none practicing Muslims.

He never managed to get into Syria and he could not be banned/deported from France because he is French.



Not even sure where to start here.
I would bet MORE than half of all the refugees are either depressed, suffering from PTSD, or any number of mental illnesses, so if they snap and decide to join isis, launch terror attacks, commit atrocities, horrifically murder a priest, and blow up half of Europe, due to they're being "mentally ill", good luck with that.

Depending on what source you use, 55% to 65% of those incarcerated have some form {any many are serious} of mental illness.
I am an advocate for expanding mental health facilities, mental health awareness, and I think it is one of the major issues in society,
that is severely and criminally not been addressed.
Society pays dearly for not putting more resources into addressing mental health issues.

Percentage of prisoners with mental illness

I have always assumed and thought most people realized that most terrorists ARE mentally ill.
NEWSFLASH!!! Most terrorists are mentally ill.

International policy digest - mental illness and terrorism



3 pages later, I don't see anyone addressing the conversation I had with Maria.
Is mental illness an "excuse" for terrorism?
I especially find issue with the fact most of the "mentally ill" terrorists, were cognitively aware enough to plan the attacks, locate and get the weapons, often leave some sort of manifesto, etc.
I would enjoy thoughts on labeling the terrorist in Germany at the mall, and the terrorist that murdered the priest, being labeled mentally ill.



I my opinion, mental illness is no excuse. You have now fucking idea what kind of childhood I had and I am not a terrorist. Kill my family though and I will become one. Bomb my house, my city, my beer store, I will be "mad". I WILL seek revenge. I believe revenge is a right. And if you are mentally ill and do that shit I will cure you in milliseconds. None of these SSRIs so you can go shoot up a school or a military base. Lead, originally called plumbum, element 82. Or something else, the recipe for nitroglycerin is freely available all over the place.

These rapists and murderers need to die. They will no long "suffer" from their mental illness. Put down like a rabid dog.

And I did not make it that way. Talk to the people with all the money, and believe me I believe they should be put down, but not so humanely. They CAUSED they suffering that pissed these people off. They are the ones who are responsible for most of the radicalisation.

Your tax dollars at work.

T^T

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 10:43:29 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Enjoy it while it lasts.


There is nothing to defend here.
Most normal humans realize some things are reprehensible.





from your link:

'You Christians, you kill us': Nun reveals words of ISIS knifemen who forced elderly priest, 84, to kneel at altar as they slit his throat on camera after invading Mass - before police shot them

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3708394/Two-men-armed-knives-people-hostage-French-church.html#ixzz4FgAHW9Vz

Too bad they pick an innocent instead of putting the blame where it squarely belongs and wacking and involved corporate atheist.



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(in reply to Marini)
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RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/27/2016 11:05:14 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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I just roll my eyes at the new excuses for this Muslim dude.
Anyway, it's the same for Orlando dude too. Not Islam. Just Mentally Ill.

Lol!

Okay..., this is how it's gonna be like now.

Those poor Muslims who are doing what Islam tells them to do are just simply mentally ill.

Sane Muslims do not emulate their leader Muhammad's example of strife, war and violence.

Gonna have prepare a giant asylum to house the millions of ISIS mentally ill supporters. They got it figured out. They are uniting the mentally ills of the world, to cause harm to people all over the world.

But how interesting that mentally ill people worldwide, different upbringing, different cultures, lone wolves everywhere, specifically response to the call of Islam.

There is no other religion that can cause mentally ill people worldwide from different countries and cultures, to unite in their insane love for violence, the way Islam has now succeeded and inspired them to bond and be as one united worldwide.

I also find it interesting people here care more about what's happening in France than in Germany. Who also been having a spate of violence from "mentally ill muslims" continuously. Probably because Germany let in 1 Mil Muslim Refugees, so it's just, expected.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 7/27/2016 11:11:59 PM >

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: WTF happened in Normandy - 7/28/2016 5:12:02 AM   
MariaB


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Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Those of us that have seen or heard it first hand and have some inclination of their true culture, are slammed as Islamaphobes when we point it out.
You and many others are seeing through polarising western eyes and applying western standards to them and formulating your arguments based on that premise.
They are very different; chalk and cheese, oil and water etc.
There is a big difference between rubbing shoulders with them in the course of whatever you do, and quite another when you really get to know them from the inside.


But I've heard and seen Muslims first hand and I can't agree with your statements.

I lived in Iran within a Muslim household and because I speak Farsi I've worked for a middle eastern company in France. I have personal friends who are Muslims and I have lived just off Mile End Rd and Stratford, both of which have a large Muslim majority.

From my experience in Iran I can say this:
Women are greatly respected and admired by the men folk in 95 percent of homes.
A man who doesn't take care of his wife is disrespected by all around him.
The mother, especially elderly, tend to be the boss.
They live in very modern houses with running water and all the mod cons.
A Muslim man who is seen to use his wife like a pack horse would be condemned and belittled by an entire neighborhood.
More Iranian women divorce their husbands than husbands divorce their wives.
Most of the Muslims I knew and still know don’t give religion a lot of time. They are far more interested in fashion, make-up, popular music. Whilst they may appear be more devout than we are with Christianity, generally they are no more devout than my Christian grandmother who attended church once a week.

Culturally they are very different but then so are the Romanians, Greeks and Italians.







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