RE: Voter laws

RE: Voter laws (Full Version)

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Greta75 -> RE: Voter laws (8/1/2016 7:05:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul There are lots, lots, lots more. But you get the idea of what some are dealing with that others of us take for granted. It looks like there has been alot of administrative problems in the government by not having this properly organized, but the solution is to find a solution to make ID automatic and free to all babies born on US soil for the future generation, so everybody has a record and easily provable they are definitely one. For the older generation, they may just have to spend resources to reach out to the ones with problems, and help them get their ID too. Or as an exception, just waive it for the generation that they know will mostly not even have a Birth Certificate or whatever is needed. Even if they made an exception for all Disabled people in the US to not require ID would be okay too. How many disabled people are there anyway? It is really hard for them to get access to anything, so certain concession like that can be made. The solution to forgo all ID is kinda like maybe the cheapest and easiest solution, but it is just not right for a country to do so, in terms of for the future and maintaining the integrity of votes. But Thumbprint solves alot of problem, they just need to invest on proper security too.

Wayward5oul -> RE: Voter laws (8/1/2016 7:14:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 But Thumbprint solves alot of problem, they just need to invest on proper security too. I do not see a national thumbprint ID system ever being enacted here. If it were to seriously be suggested, the outcry about violation of right to privacy would be overwhelming, as fingerprints are used so heavily in criminal investigations.

BamaD -> RE: Voter laws (8/1/2016 8:00:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 But Thumbprint solves alot of problem, they just need to invest on proper security too. I do not see a national thumbprint ID system ever being enacted here. If it were to seriously be suggested, the outcry about violation of right to privacy would be overwhelming, as fingerprints are used so heavily in criminal investigations. Anyone who considers a picture ID to be an infringment on there rights would have to go crazy over the thumbprint idea.

Greta75 -> RE: Voter laws (8/1/2016 9:45:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul as fingerprints are used so heavily in criminal investigations. Fingerprints make it easier to identify criminals. Which is great! Positive thing! Actually I was just thinking, how can you possibly have a fingerprint sample of a criminal and then find out who he is, UNLESS US already have a central database of every citizen or foreigner finger prints? So if it already exists. It's merely having the hand held machine for voters to thumb print, check with that central database if they are citizens, then let them pass and vote. Because there must already be a central database of finger prints.

BamaD -> RE: Voter laws (8/1/2016 9:49:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul as fingerprints are used so heavily in criminal investigations. Fingerprints make it easier to identify criminals. Which is great! Positive thing! Actually I was just thinking, how can you possibly have a fingerprint sample of a criminal and then find out who he is, UNLESS US already have a central database of every citizen or foreigner finger prints? So if it already exists. It's merely having the hand held machine for voters to thumb print, check with that central database if they are citizens, then let them pass and vote. Because there must already be a central database of finger prints. There are many people, who can vote, who are not in that system.

Greta75 -> RE: Voter laws (8/1/2016 9:50:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Anyone who considers a picture ID to be an infringment on there rights would have to go crazy over the thumbprint idea. Another thing I don't understand. Photo ID is so important. I guess these people are the ones who will never ever bother to get a passport then. Unless US passports has no photo in it, which I doubt. I think international standards needs photo. You know what is one other difference. Because US is in debt. Singapore is in surpluses every year. This means, when there is surplus, government refunds some of that surpluses to citizens, all of us will receive somewhere between $300 to $1200 of refunds, depending on how much taxes we paid, so for anybody to collect their refund, they need to have ID! I think when it comes to collecting back free money or money they have paid, more people are willing to make sure they are properly recorded in the data base as one of the citizens so they don't get left out in those refunds. But yes, the initial set up is they wire the money directly into your bank account but for all that to be set up, you need to be properly registered in their database as a citizen. Where there is free money to be gotten, I bet you homeless and poor are first in line for it, because they desperately need it the most. Even those that don't pay taxes will receive some of the surpluses.

BamaD -> RE: Voter laws (8/1/2016 9:52:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Anyone who considers a picture ID to be an infringment on there rights would have to go crazy over the thumbprint idea. Another thing I don't understand. Photo ID is so important. I guess these people are the ones who will never ever bother to get a passport then. Unless US passports has no photo in it, which I doubt. I think international standards needs photo. You know what is one other difference. Because US is in debt. Singapore is in surpluses every year. This means, when there is surplus, government refunds some of that surpluses to citizens, all of us will receive somewhere between $300 to $1200 of refunds, depending on how much taxes we paid, so for anybody to collect their refund, they need to have ID! I think when it comes to collecting back free money, more people are willing to make sure they are properly recorded in the data base as one of the citizens. Here you need a photo ID to get a sixpack of beer.

Greta75 -> RE: Voter laws (8/1/2016 9:53:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Here you need a photo ID to get a sixpack of beer. For an adult?

Wayward5oul -> RE: Voter laws (8/1/2016 9:54:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul as fingerprints are used so heavily in criminal investigations. Fingerprints make it easier to identify criminals. Which is great! Positive thing! Actually I was just thinking, how can you possibly have a fingerprint sample of a criminal and then find out who he is, UNLESS US already have a central database of every citizen or foreigner finger prints? So if it already exists. It's merely having the hand held machine for voters to thumb print, check with that central database if they are citizens, then let them pass and vote. Because there must already be a central database of finger prints. Certain groups automatically have fingerprints in the system-military, law enforcement, government workers, teachers, people who have been arrested, etc. But LOTS of the general population do not have their fingerprints on file. And do not want them on file. Personally, I am waiting for the smartchip device to be introduced into the body.

BamaD -> RE: Voter laws (8/1/2016 9:59:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Here you need a photo ID to get a sixpack of beer. For an adult? Yep. Have to prove you are old enough.

Dvr22999874 -> RE: Voter laws (8/1/2016 10:01:24 PM)
Many years ago I used to go to Argentina on the Brit ships and Argentina at that time required all seamen to carry a thing called a 'Fiche' when they went ashore. This was basically a visa but it was a piece of card about 15" long, by about 10" wide, with the words " Do not fold, bend, spindle or mutilate" written in about four languages on the bottom. On this was written the seaman's details, including mother's name and her place of birth, the seaman's physical description and a black and white photo of said seaman, with his signature underneath it and the fingerprints of both hands. I don't know how many Donald Ducks, Mickey Mice, Olive Oyls, Captain Marvels etc I sailed with but I do know that no two pics matched the fingerprints and many of the photos were removed and replaced upside down, thus proving that at that time, a lot of Argentine cops couldn't read but only knew which way to hold the fiche by the way the photo was up. Now, if the Brits, a usually stoic and accepting race, can make this small demonstration against what they saw as unwarranted snooping, can you imagine how things would go for the snoopers in Australia and ESPECIALLY the United States ????

mnottertail -> RE: Voter laws (8/1/2016 10:05:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul There are lots, lots, lots more. But you get the idea of what some are dealing with that others of us take for granted. It looks like there has been alot of administrative problems in the government by not having this properly organized, but the solution is to find a solution to make ID automatic and free to all babies born on US soil for the future generation, so everybody has a record and easily provable they are definitely one. For the older generation, they may just have to spend resources to reach out to the ones with problems, and help them get their ID too. Or as an exception, just waive it for the generation that they know will mostly not even have a Birth Certificate or whatever is needed. Even if they made an exception for all Disabled people in the US to not require ID would be okay too. How many disabled people are there anyway? It is really hard for them to get access to anything, so certain concession like that can be made. The solution to forgo all ID is kinda like maybe the cheapest and easiest solution, but it is just not right for a country to do so, in terms of for the future and maintaining the integrity of votes. But Thumbprint solves alot of problem, they just need to invest on proper security too. change the constitution. then we shall see.

mnottertail -> RE: Voter laws (8/1/2016 10:10:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SunDominant quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail millions of nutsuckers arent capable of having it together, and they vote. So we agree. Good. Nope we dont. Obviously. Nutsuckers and voter ID are two different things, when you outlaw the nutsucker party in the United States then no voter ID until you change the constitution, you solve the problem of idiots voting, and waste money on the ID. Well, we've wasted money on stupder shit.

mnottertail -> RE: Voter laws (8/1/2016 10:12:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Doesn't matter who does it, it is wrong. Agreed and I knew you would too. My point was more around how interesting that the stories never see the light of day independent of any obvious bias. That implies that there's a bias against the story itself no matter it's origins which raises some interesting questions. Much like voter fraud people don't want to see it, they are more comfortable prtending it doesn't exist. Thus it doesn't get ratings thus it is ignored, thus most people soon forget it. Voter fraud pales in comparison to gerrymandering, and jacking vote counts in machines and thru other devious abridgements. Besides, voter fraud is pretty well caught. IDs wont solve any of it.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Voter laws (8/3/2016 12:55:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri It can happen where a poor person, or a very old person can't come up with an original (not a photocopy) birth certificate, or a passport. Without those, it's really tough to prove the first 3 elements. And, it can be tough to get those documents (and there's usually an expense to it). So it means these people cannot open bank accounts too? I believe there would be quite a number of super old generation that maybe do not have the documentation to even get a State ID. Perhaps the rule should be people from certain generation do not need ID to vote, but all the younger generation, should have no excuse. Personally, I think it should be something every school in America has, as part of a government (as the topic) course. If you already have an ID or a DL, you don't have to go through the process of getting one (since you already did). But, if you don't have an ID or a DL yet, you can get an ID (not a DL) as part of the class. That should get the vast majority of you having an acceptable form of ID by the time they graduate HS. That doesn't sole the issue of people without ID's that are no longer in HS, but it's a start. I don't know how widespread it is, but I know that at least in my area, when kids take driver's ed (usually the 10th grade), they are able to take the driving test with their instructor as well. The instructor gives them a certificate, and they take that to the DMV and can get their license. That wasn't available when I was in high school, so even though I took drivers ed when I was 15, I didn't get my license until I was 18 because I worked full time year round and helped care for my nieces, so there was no time for me to get an adult to accompany me on the hour drive to the DMV and sit around all day waiting to take the driving test, then drive an hour back. They also do voter's registration in senior classes. That wouldn't take care of all of the issues, but its a start. We did voter registration in my government class, but it wasn't a requirement. I'm not sure if there was anyone in my graduating class that didn't have a DL by our senior year. I've only run into a handful of people, in my age group, that didn't, as I was growing up. I acknowledge I didn't know everyone, and I didn't run into everyone, so I'm sure there were plenty that didn't. Driver's ed was an after-school option. You didn't have to go through the school, either. One of the nice things about getting ID's as part of a school curriculum, they have copies of birth certificates on file. Law could be amended to allow for school records copies of birth cert's to get an ID. Still doesn't solve the issue of the elderly who don't have - and may never have had - an original birth certificate.

mnottertail -> RE: Voter laws (8/3/2016 4:48:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 But Thumbprint solves alot of problem, they just need to invest on proper security too. I do not see a national thumbprint ID system ever being enacted here. If it were to seriously be suggested, the outcry about violation of right to privacy would be overwhelming, as fingerprints are used so heavily in criminal investigations. Anyone who considers a picture ID to be an infringment on there rights would have to go crazy over the thumbprint idea. Yeah, that would be smart, then we could see nutsuckers at the voting places poring over thumbprints and pretending they were experts at that as well. It would be a good laugh, thats for sure.

Lucylastic -> RE: Voter laws (8/3/2016 5:01:33 AM)
Isnt Privacy the issue here with "databases", big Brother, central registries and paranoia over "freedom" I know we have had discussions about it. Some want databases for everyone but them a bit like background checks and a central database of firearms users? Or mental health registry.

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