RE: Voter laws (Full Version)

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Wayward5oul -> RE: Voter laws (7/30/2016 7:17:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta
Our birth certificate, which EVERY baby, regardless rich or poor should have one, IS a form of ID.


Nope, birth certificates are not accepted as ID ANYWHERE, except when applying for something that is citizenship based like a passport, and even then it has to be accompanied by other ID related documentation.

quote:


So if for some damn strange reason you lost your birth certificate, by 12 yr old, every kid enrolled in school, will automatically get an ID.[

Nope, doesn't happen here.

quote:


Like, perhaps the problem is that US don't issue ID compulsory to EVERYBODY born in the US?

Nope, not here.

quote:


But surely every legal citizen has a birth certificate right?

If they are elderly, possibly not. Lost long ago. Homeless? Nope.









DesideriScuri -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 12:51:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: markyugen
Do you pro-voter ID people even TRY to educate yourselves as to why it is such a pernicious idea? Or do you prefer to bury your head in the sand and let yourself be scammed because your side just "coincidentally" happens to be the one that benefits from minorities, poor people, students and other supposedly liberal-leaning groups being denied their constitutional right to vote?
Google Vote ID as I did, and you come up with a plethora of sites that will tell you why these laws should be abolished. At least then you can claim mendacity and not stupidity as the reason why you take the position you do.


How is it that minorities and poor people can't get an ID that allows them to vote?

Just because a student ID isn't an allowable form of ID doesn't really mean that student can't vote. Plus, if they're not at their assigned polling place, they will only be able to use a provisional ballot as it is. If they are out-of-town college students, they wouldn't be able to vote there anyway. The mail-in ballot is quite useful in that case, isn't it?




DesideriScuri -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 12:53:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
If we don't need ID to vote (a constitutional right) then we don't need ID to purchase a weapon (another consittutional right).


Thank God this isn't a hugely popular public board. I can't even imagine how many heads would have exploded from your post.

Then again, it might be quite effective in preventing a zombie apocalypse. [:D]




BamaD -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 12:54:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: markyugen

Do you pro-voter ID people even TRY to educate yourselves as to why it is such a pernicious idea? Or do you prefer to bury your head in the sand and let yourself be scammed because your side just "coincidentally" happens to be the one that benefits from minorities, poor people, students and other supposedly liberal-leaning groups being denied their constitutional right to vote?

Google Vote ID as I did, and you come up with a plethora of sites that will tell you why these laws should be abolished. At least then you can claim mendacity and not stupidity as the reason why you take the position you do.




And a plethora of sites that explain why they are a good idea.




Dvr22999874 -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 1:14:14 AM)

markyugen, do you ever look at other countries that have voter ID or ask the any inhabitants why they really don't think it is such a big deal. And as for that bullshit about the homeless, they only have to go to the nearest Centrelink or Medicare office in this country and they would obtain an I.D. card ..................Many choose not to and that too is a valid choice. Ask around mark, you may be surprised. I doubt that will happen though, from what I have read so far.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 1:17:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: markyugen
Do you pro-voter ID people even TRY to educate yourselves as to why it is such a pernicious idea?

Why do you think it's such a bad idea to make those that voters are actually legally allowed to vote?
Voter ID (of some sort) is a good idea - unless you have something to hide.

No. Voter ID is a deliberate attempt to disenfranchise those at the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum who almost invariably vote Democrat. Homeless people and poor people often don't have acceptable forms of ID. It is a corrupt Republican practice designed to enable electoral fraud.

I agree with you, voter ID does target poor, homeless, often Black people etc.
How do you distinguish without Voter ID who is here legally or not, or even eligible to vote?
I agree you should not have to have a drivers license.


A DL is not the only acceptable ID.

http://voterid.nc.gov/photo-id.html

There is even a "mobile DMV" schedule.




Lucylastic -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 1:34:45 AM)

So if you dont have a native card, a forces ID/veterans ID, a passport , or a driving license you are screwed.
THe DMV mobile link points to https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/locations.html?term=35.7833098%2C-78.6398626&type=license%2Cplate&lat=35.7833098&lon=-78.6398626&field=geo
Four out of five listed are closed for business.
One according to its own page says its availability is
January 5-6, February 2-3, March 8-9, April 5-6, May 3-4, June 7-8, July 5-6, August 2-3, September 6-7, October 4-5, November 8-9, December 6-7. 9:30 a.m. - 3:30 p.m.

The list of requirements for homeless people is
https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/driver/id/#VoterID
But luckily since the court decided other wise....we have this at the top of the page....
[image]http://voterid.nc.gov/images/id_banner.png[/image]




Lucylastic -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 1:39:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: markyugen

Do you pro-voter ID people even TRY to educate yourselves as to why it is such a pernicious idea? Or do you prefer to bury your head in the sand and let yourself be scammed because your side just "coincidentally" happens to be the one that benefits from minorities, poor people, students and other supposedly liberal-leaning groups being denied their constitutional right to vote?

Google Vote ID as I did, and you come up with a plethora of sites that will tell you why these laws should be abolished. At least then you can claim mendacity and not stupidity as the reason why you take the position you do.




And a plethora of sites that explain why they are a good idea.

cites please?




bounty44 -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 5:44:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Hey WS:)
These are the links from the article regarding voter fraud, Im not claiming correct, or unbiased, just that I have them bookmarked for my next break.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2013/11/14/about-as-many-people-say-theyve-been-abducted-by-space-aliens-as-say-theyve-committed-voter-fraud/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/07/09/7-papers-4-government-inquiries-2-news-investigations-and-1-court-ruling-proving-voter-fraud-is-mostly-a-myth/

Thank you Lucy.

In the points I bolded in my earlier post, one of them still has me scratching my head. The State actually went to court and argued that their reason for one of the restrictions was that there were so many blacks that voted Democratic? They don't think that is racist?


regular evidence abounds of dead people voting, people stealing others' votes, illegal aliens voting, felons voting, and people voting more than once.

leftists continually ignore that and put forth things like what lucy did there.

heres a good read (among others):

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/12/felons-voting-illegally-franken-minnesota-study-finds.html

and this too: http://www.collarchat.com/m_4825645/mpage_3/tm.htm (my post #39)

now add into the mix the fact that voter ID laws actually have served to increase voter turnout amongst the population the mean, greedy, racist republicans, and the comrades have nothing on which to hang their hats.

for more fun reading:

https://unpoliticallycorrect2016.wordpress.com/2013/06/17/democrats-arrested-andor-convicted-of-voter-fraud/

(yes vile critter parts, its a BLOG, but you'll notice everything is linked to news sites)

here's a fantastic collection: http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/2015/pdf/VoterFraudCases-Merged-3-2.pdf

(and just for fun, do a key word search for "democrat" and see how often it shows up)




Lucylastic -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 6:19:21 AM)

now, you can point out fox news from six years ago all you wish, you can ignore evidence against the claims you keep making
Judges have said otherwise and proven it in 2016
I bet you havent read any of the links I provided
im not responding to the second link because you edited it and ahem its funny




Greta75 -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 6:29:27 AM)

FR
*sighs*, US is sooo complicated, but their solutions to problems is questionable. IF homeless or black people or poor people can't afford an ID, they need to change the system and give everybody a free ID! OR Thumb Print all of them into a system. Then they can just prove they are themselves by Thumb Print. There are better solutions than doing away with ID for voting which will create new problems of illegal people voting.




WickedsDesire -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 6:37:03 AM)

If someone could put a roughish accurate figure to American electoral fraud I would be much obliged and sure the UK too for comparison. I doubt its 1/10 000 if i had to speculate....

Would not the bigger issue lie with manual counters and electronic counters. There lies the weakness.




KenDckey -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 6:42:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

If we don't need ID to vote (a constitutional right) then we don't need ID to purchase a weapon (another consittutional right).

That is not only mendacious, it is not constitutional. Note the prohibitions in the 24th amendment that do not exist in the 2nd.


That applies only to Presidential elections. To my knowledge on DC has a case settled by SCOTUS relative to it's voting rights. It doesn't mention any other election. I can understand the courts establishing a 2 ballot system, one for POTUS and one for all other elections. But I don't see where ID requirements are illegal. And Congress could establish voter ID nationally if it so choose.




Lucylastic -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 6:44:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

If someone could put a roughish accurate figure to American electoral fraud I would be much obliged and sure the UK too for comparison. I doubt its 1/10 000 if i had to speculate....

Would not the bigger issue lie with manual counters and electronic counters. There lies the weakness.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2013/11/14/about-as-many-people-say-theyve-been-abducted-by-space-aliens-as-say-theyve-committed-voter-fraud/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/07/09/7-papers-4-government-inquiries-2-news-investigations-and-1-court-ruling-proving-voter-fraud-is-mostly-a-myth/

Voter fraud in the UK ? I dunno




bounty44 -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 6:44:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

IF homeless or black people or poor people can't afford an ID, they need to change the system and give everybody a free ID!


I have already pointed out greta that this is indeed what is done.




Lucylastic -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 6:48:58 AM)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_4746066/mpage_1/tm.htm
A discussion on voter fraud from 2014.




mnottertail -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 7:09:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Hey WS:)
These are the links from the article regarding voter fraud, Im not claiming correct, or unbiased, just that I have them bookmarked for my next break.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2013/11/14/about-as-many-people-say-theyve-been-abducted-by-space-aliens-as-say-theyve-committed-voter-fraud/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/07/09/7-papers-4-government-inquiries-2-news-investigations-and-1-court-ruling-proving-voter-fraud-is-mostly-a-myth/

Thank you Lucy.

In the points I bolded in my earlier post, one of them still has me scratching my head. The State actually went to court and argued that their reason for one of the restrictions was that there were so many blacks that voted Democratic? They don't think that is racist?


regular evidence abounds of dead people voting, people stealing others' votes, illegal aliens voting, felons voting, and people voting more than once.

leftists continually ignore that and put forth things like what lucy did there.

heres a good read (among others):

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/12/felons-voting-illegally-franken-minnesota-study-finds.html

and this too: http://www.collarchat.com/m_4825645/mpage_3/tm.htm (my post #39)

now add into the mix the fact that voter ID laws actually have served to increase voter turnout amongst the population the mean, greedy, racist republicans, and the comrades have nothing on which to hang their hats.

for more fun reading:

https://unpoliticallycorrect2016.wordpress.com/2013/06/17/democrats-arrested-andor-convicted-of-voter-fraud/

(yes vile critter parts, its a BLOG, but you'll notice everything is linked to news sites)

here's a fantastic collection: http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/2015/pdf/VoterFraudCases-Merged-3-2.pdf

(and just for fun, do a key word search for "democrat" and see how often it shows up)


Uh, the fraud is found and prosecuted, nothing there would change an election, nothing there would be prevented by voter ID, and its also unconstitutional, felchgobbler44. You want voter ID, repeal the 24th amendment then make the law. Simple as that, shitlicker44.

You nutsuckers need to read that fucking constitution you so often want to hold as an immaculate iron rod document. So, also learn to read toiletlicker44.




Greta75 -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 7:10:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
I have already pointed out greta that this is indeed what is done.

Question is, is this nation wide?




Awareness -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 8:20:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
No. Voter ID is a deliberate attempt to disenfranchise those at the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum who almost invariably vote Democrat. Homeless people and poor people often don't have acceptable forms of ID. It is a corrupt Republican practice designed to enable electoral fraud.


This has to be a uniquely American problem.
Our birth certificate, which EVERY baby, regardless rich or poor should have one, IS a form of ID.
IF that fails, maybe we have policy that social workers will knock on every door of every baby recorded when their time for school starts and make sure every kid gets to go to school. If they got financial issues, there are lots of help at hands. The kid can get free uniforms, school books, school fees waived, and they get pocket money from private organizations who pledge to help to make sure no child has an excuse not to go to school.

So if for some damn strange reason you lost your birth certificate, by 12 yr old, every kid enrolled in school, will automatically get an ID.

Like, perhaps the problem is that US don't issue ID compulsory to EVERYBODY born in the US? But surely every legal citizen has a birth certificate right?
Singapore is more totalitarian than the USA. While the USA does have birth certificates, the probability they'll be destroyed or lost tends to increase the lower down the socioeconomic ladder you are.

For various reasons, the USA tends to use your social security number as ID. This is unfortunate as it's frequently stolen and used to aid identity theft. Essentially the USA does have a problem with verification of identity in general. What you will tend to find is that identity is most verifiable for those who have the most social and societal links. IE: If you have a job, pay taxes, have friends in the community, are a member of clubs, attend social events, pay utility bills, receive Amazon deliveries at your home... all these things add up to a general sense of identity which can be verified in one way or another.

Poor people do very few of these things. Homeless people do none of them. Consequently, the poor and homeless are further disenfranchised by voter ID laws. These laws are deliberately designed to remove their right to vote which is a direct breach of the 15th amendment and is thus, unconstitutional.

Voter fraud - in terms of people voting twice or illegals voting - is not a problem. Electoral fraud - in terms of the electronic voting machines being used - is an enormous problem. The company Diebold which makes these machines has been exposed as incompetent at best or downright devoted to fraud at worst. "Hacking Democracy" exposes Diebold's incompetence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacking_Democracy) and demonstrates how easily these machines can be hacked. It is reasonable to assume that the use of Diebold machines may have influenced the outcome of the 2000 Presidential election.

Diebold is well known in the security industry for the poor design of its machines. It bewilders competent observers why this company is allowed to continue in the business of supplying e-voting machines. Doing so is enabling further electoral fraud.

Of course, Republicans don't care about Diebold because bribing the right people to manipulate e-voting totals is something which works to their advantage. Republicans are essentially corrupt.




kdsub -> RE: Voter laws (7/31/2016 8:34:26 AM)

I just do not understand the resistance to voter ID. It is legal and has been enforced in Missouri for at least the last 50 years. When I go to the polls I have to present an approved ID before I can vote. It can be a drivers licence.... a birth certificate...a passport... even a utility bill with my address on it. What is the big deal... no one seems to have a problem voting.

ID is not the problem in many states but the requirement for a picture ID that is the problem...right? We have a vote coming up for a picture requirement. I will vote for it. I believe that if a person wants to vote and they are serious and responsible they will not be put off by the inconvenience of obtaining one.

Butch




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