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RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 8:09:18 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

Now you've changed the word racism to oppression. So, you've realized I was correct and you were not. We weren't discussing oppression. We were discussing racism.

Well goody for you, you were correct. I don't think so.

Racism has always been synonymous with domination and oppression of a self-designated superior group over a designated inferior people. I am not changing definitions or history. You are an idiot.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Nnanji)
Profile   Post #: 281
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 8:35:50 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
I thought this might be appropriate....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/20/its-hard-to-imagine-a-much-worse-pitch-donald-trump-could-have-made-for-the-black-vote/

At a rally Friday night in Dimondale, Mich., Donald Trump repeated a version of a plea to black voters that he'd offered 24 hours earlier in North Carolina.

"No group in America has been more harmed by Hillary Clinton's policies than African Americans," he said, apparently pointing to individuals in the crowd. "No group. No group. If Hillary Clinton's goal was to inflict pain to the African American community, she could not have done a better job. It is a disgrace."

"Detroit tops the list of most dangerous cities in terms of violent crime, number one," he said from a city 90 minutes away from Detroit with a population that is 93 percent white. "This is the legacy of the Democratic politicians who have run this city. This is the result of the policy agenda embraced by crooked Hillary Clinton."

He went on.

"The only way to change results is to change leadership. We can never fix our problems by relying on the same politicians who created our problems in the first place. A new future requires brand new leadership," he said.

"Look at how much African American communities are suffering from Democratic control. To those I say the following: What do you have to lose by trying something new like Trump? What do you have to lose?" he asked. "You live in your poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose?"

This was not the Teleprompter Trump that we saw in Charlotte, interlacing his prepared remarks with occasional asides. This was Traditional Trump, riffing a bit more on what he wanted to say in a manner that probably didn't do him much good.

Consider: Black Americans are not "living in poverty" as a general rule. A quarter of the black population is, according to data from the Kaiser Family Foundation, about the same as the percentage of Hispanics. In Michigan, the figure is slightly higher. Most black Americans don't live in poverty, just as most white Americans don't.

Consider: The unemployment rate in the black community is higher than that in the white community, as it has been since the Department of Labor started keeping track. Among young blacks, though, the figure is not 59 percent — unless (as PolitiFact noted) you consider not the labor force but every young black American, including high school students. Many young black high school students are unemployed. This isn't a metric that Labor typically uses, for obvious reasons, but calculating the rates for young whites gives you about 50 percent, too.

Consider: Black voters are perfectly able to evaluate candidates on qualities other than their political parties. Black voters began supporting the Democratic Party heavily thanks to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Since then, they have consistently voted for the party — a party that is one-fifth black and which since 1964 has elected the vast majority of the black members of Congress. (This line of argument from Al Sharpton in 2004 is worth a read.) Democrats win the support of black voters consistently because those voters like the work that they do and like the fights that they fight.

When President Obama won reelection in 2012, 93 percent of black Americans thought he was doing a good job. That's also the percentage of the vote he received, according to exit polls, beating Mitt Romney by 87 points.

And yet, somehow, Trump is doing worse.

In the battle between Trump and Clinton, he consistently lands in the low-single-digits of support from black Americans. In some polls, he has received 0 percent support, a negligible amount. In our most recent survey, he got 2 percent support.

Why? Because nonwhite voters view Trump very unfavorably. We wrote about this in June, but can now update the numbers. Four-in-5 blacks have a very unfavorable view of Trump, with a slightly higher percentage, 83 percent, agreeing with the idea that he is biased against women and minorities. Eighty-seven percent of black voters we surveyed indicated that they would be anxious if he were elected president and only 6 percent "comfortable." The numbers for Clinton — who very quickly tweeted that Trump's Michigan comments were "so ignorant it's staggering" -- were nearly completely flipped.

There are any number of reasons that black Americans might view Trump unfavorably, starting with his 2011 effort to cast suspicion on Obama's place of birth. Or, probably, starting with his full-page ad calling for the death penalty against five black teenagers in New York City who were accused of rape — wrongly, as it turned out. Or perhaps thanks to the support his current candidacy is getting from people like former Ku Klux Klan grand wizard David Duke.

There's no reason to think that Donald Trump's suggestion that black Americans had "nothing to lose" because they "are living in poverty" will do anything to reverse that trend. Nor was his insistence in North Carolina that he should get votes from black voters because "the inner cities are so bad." Some black people, research shows, live in places beside the "inner city."

So why make the argument? It could be, simply enough, that Trump doesn't have anyone in his inner circle that can provide a sense of how to reach out to the black community. One adviser said on CNN that the fact Trump made his appeal in a mostly white town wasn't a big deal, and that "maybe it would have been nice if he went and had a backdrop with a burning car." Or maybe Trump was listening to Ben Carson, who in May made a similar argument for Trump: He would only be president for four years, so what could go wrong?


It's likely that Trump's continuing lack of meaningful outreach to black voters keeps him from understanding effective ways of arguing his case. When he went to Baton Rouge to see flood damage, he stopped at a Baptist church with a mostly-white congregation.

Or maybe black voters aren't his intended audience. Maybe, with his poll numbers low thanks to soft support from his own party, Trump is trying to convince Republicans that he wants or can earn the black vote. In our most recent poll, a fifth of Republican men and a quarter of Republican women agreed with the statement that Trump is biased against women and minorities. He gets 90 and 80 percent of the vote from those groups, respectively. Maybe this is an attempt to get them to see him as doing real outreach, even if he isn't.

Of all of the claims that Trump made on Friday night, though, perhaps none is as laughable as his ultimate prediction.

"At the end of four years, I guarantee you, that I will get over 95 percent of the African American vote," he said. "I will produce for the inner cities, and I will produce for the African Americans. The Democrats will not produce, and all they've done is taken advantage of your vote. That's they've done. And once the election's over, they go back to their palaces in Washington, and you know what, they do nothing for you, just remember it."

Black voters will not give Donald Trump 95 percent of the vote should he be up for reelection in 2020. If he got 25 percent of the vote from black Americans, it would be remarkable. And unless he convinces his own party to support his candidacy, the only one returning to a golden palace after Election Day will be Donald Trump.

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(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 282
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 9:23:09 AM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

F If it was open armed rebellion shouldn't the army have been sent in to put it down.

There were military tanks or personnel carriers on Springfield Avenue in Newark.

Tanks in Newark is not putting down a revolt in Baltimore, that's not even the same state.

BTW what were they doing, is there a NG armory on Springfield Avenue in Newark. I guess part of the military plan to put down the rebellion was to give them room to destroy.

Newark erupted in the 1960s . . . snipers allegedly.

And in 1863 they sent troops from Gettysberg to quell the "draft" riots.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 283
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 9:31:00 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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the southern welfare states actually had to start shooting deserters to keep them in


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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 284
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 11:34:56 AM   
Termyn8or


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Joined: 11/12/2005
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"The Democrats will not produce, and all they've done is taken advantage of your vote. That's they've done. And once the election's over, they go back to their palaces in Washington, and you know what, they do nothing for you, just remember it."

Gotta admit that part is true.

T^T

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 285
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 11:38:40 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Because with very few exceptions military people aren't allowed to carry on base.


Only a fool would change that policy.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 286
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 11:39:00 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

the southern welfare states actually had to start shooting deserters to keep them in



And the union didn't ?

T^T

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 287
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 11:39:26 AM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Now you've changed the word racism to oppression. So, you've realized I was correct and you were not. We weren't discussing oppression. We were discussing racism.

Well goody for you, you were correct. I don't think so.

Racism has always been synonymous with domination and oppression of a self-designated superior group over a designated inferior people. I am not changing definitions or history. You are an idiot.

You're just not bright enough to understand I guess. It's funny, I understand what you mean, although I don't agree. But like most liberals you never look at any view other than that in your little cabal so you can never understand opposing views. It's easier to call people you don't understand idiots or racists rather than try to understand outside your koolaid driven group think isn't it VML?

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 288
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 11:42:55 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: BamaD


And in 1863 they sent troops from Gettysberg to quell the "draft" riots.


This was pointed out to be a lie the first time you posted it.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 289
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 1:02:35 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: BamaD

Because with very few exceptions military people aren't allowed to carry on base.


Only a fool would change that policy.



Bullshit. They have an arsenal and that should be guarded, so at least some of them should have sidearms.

Cops are required to be armed, how many mass shootings have happened at police stations ?

T^T

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 290
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 1:07:51 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

white" thought process


This my friend is where we disagree and why we can't agree... There is no such thing. I do agree that humans will discriminate by groups according to any difference. It can be language...skin color...sexual orientation...nationality... social mores...hell tennis shoe color. It is built into us to want those" like us" ... But within our comfort zone there is no difference in how we think. If my skin were to suddenly turn black I would think no differently...All humans want and need the same things and will go about getting them the same way. So any problem for a particular group can and will be solved the same way...That means in my opinion that white thinking...would solve the same problems the same way as black... yellow...red... thinking. Part of the problem is we incorrectly believe that because of skin color we think differently...we don't!.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 291
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 1:21:33 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

white" thought process


This my friend is where we disagree and why we can't agree... There is no such thing. I do agree that humans will discriminate by groups according to any difference. It can be language...skin color...sexual orientation...nationality... social mores...hell tennis shoe color. It is built into us to want those" like us" ... But within our comfort zone there is no difference in how we think. If my skin were to suddenly turn black I would think no differently...All humans want and need the same things and will go about getting them the same way. So any problem for a particular group can and will be solved the same way...That means in my opinion that white thinking...would solve the same problems the same way as black... yellow...red... thinking. Part of the problem is we incorrectly believe that because of skin color we think differently...we don't!.

Butch

And that's what VML can't understand because it's outside his ideology.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 292
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 1:55:23 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

white" thought process


This my friend is where we disagree and why we can't agree... There is no such thing. I do agree that humans will discriminate by groups according to any difference. It can be language...skin color...sexual orientation...nationality... social mores...hell tennis shoe color. It is built into us to want those" like us" ... But within our comfort zone there is no difference in how we think. If my skin were to suddenly turn black I would think no differently...All humans want and need the same things and will go about getting them the same way. So any problem for a particular group can and will be solved the same way...That means in my opinion that white thinking...would solve the same problems the same way as black... yellow...red... thinking. Part of the problem is we incorrectly believe that because of skin color we think differently...we don't!.

Butch


I remember a movie called "Watermelon Man" that was about a White guy who woke up Black one day. It was a shit ton of time ago ad I don't really remember the plot. As such, I might seek it out and watch it again, but it was in a time when there was significant racial discrimination.

Got me curious now. I wonder if youtube has it.

T^T

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 293
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 2:08:05 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: BamaD

Because with very few exceptions military people aren't allowed to carry on base.


Only a fool would change that policy.


Bullshit. They have an arsenal and that should be guarded, so at least some of them should have sidearms.

Learn to read.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 294
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 2:13:23 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

the southern welfare states actually had to start shooting deserters to keep them in



And the union didn't ?

T^T


the fun thing is to point out that vile critter parts still thinks in terms of "southern welfare states" despite being shown that the majority of "welfare" in the traditional sense is predominantly NOT a southern phenomena.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 295
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 2:23:15 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: BamaD


And in 1863 they sent troops from Gettysberg to quell the "draft" riots.


This was pointed out to be a lie the first time you posted it.



just for fun, I went back to what you are referencing above and this is what strikes me: that you don't know what a "lie" really is.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 296
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 2:25:46 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: bounty44
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: BamaD


And in 1863 they sent troops from Gettysberg to quell the "draft" riots.


This was pointed out to be a lie the first time you posted it.



just for fun, I went back to what you are referencing above and this is what strikes me: that you don't know what a "lie" really is.


It strikes me that you know less aout amreikan history than our mensa elligible comrade

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 297
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 5:07:08 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

You're just not bright enough to understand I guess. It's funny, I understand what you mean, although I don't agree. But like most liberals you never look at any view other than that in your little cabal so you can never understand opposing views. It's easier to call people you don't understand idiots or racists rather than try to understand outside your koolaid driven group think isn't it VML?

Well, i don't recall calling anyone here a racist, although that term was leveled at me. I apologize for calling you an idiot.

But then, I don't take kindly to you characterizing me as a liar.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 8/20/2016 5:09:41 PM >


_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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Profile   Post #: 298
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 5:13:23 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

You're just not bright enough to understand I guess. It's funny, I understand what you mean, although I don't agree. But like most liberals you never look at any view other than that in your little cabal so you can never understand opposing views. It's easier to call people you don't understand idiots or racists rather than try to understand outside your koolaid driven group think isn't it VML?

Well, i don't recall calling anyone here a racist, although that term was leveled at me. I apologize for calling you an idiot.

While I agree with you very little, I do respect that you will apologize for that sort of thing. Imsontbreally mins being called an idiot, but it only serves to stop reasonable discussion. Thank you for the apology. I'll try and remember to refrain from name calling you as well.

As to calling people a racist, when you make blanket assertions that all white people think a certain way which oppresses all people of color, to me that's just a round about way of calling me a racist. Frankly, I think all such blanket assertions are more of a problem in the country that are micro aggressions or white privilege. It just serves to form up sides and shut down debate. Just my opinion.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 299
RE: Milwaukee Burning - 8/20/2016 5:52:10 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

white" thought process


This my friend is where we disagree and why we can't agree... There is no such thing. I do agree that humans will discriminate by groups according to any difference. It can be language...skin color...sexual orientation...nationality... social mores...hell tennis shoe color. It is built into us to want those" like us" ... But within our comfort zone there is no difference in how we think. If my skin were to suddenly turn black I would think no differently...All humans want and need the same things and will go about getting them the same way. So any problem for a particular group can and will be solved the same way...That means in my opinion that white thinking...would solve the same problems the same way as black... yellow...red... thinking. Part of the problem is we incorrectly believe that because of skin color we think differently...we don't!.

Butch


I remember a movie called "Watermelon Man" that was about a White guy who woke up Black one day. It was a shit ton of time ago ad I don't really remember the plot. As such, I might seek it out and watch it again, but it was in a time when there was significant racial discrimination.

Got me curious now. I wonder if youtube has it.

T^T

Yep, it starred Godfry Cainbrige.
Gregory Peck did a much better movie (unfortunatly I can't remember the name of it) in which he was a writer examaning anti-Semetism. To understand it he pretended he was Jewish.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 8/20/2016 5:54:54 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 300
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