RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/11/2016 8:31:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

No, like I wrote, nothing will be done about it. Just understand those of us that have serious doubts about what we've been told happened, also...without substantial proof.



[sm=banghead.gif]

So, no sources for your claims. Just take your word for it. Don't let me see it in print. I'm not even asking for a credible source.... I am asking to see the words you just printed from something... hell, I'd take a bathroom wall at this point.


what he said is the gubblemints story is so far out there that it cant be believed even minimally.

As an example its 100% impossible for a 47 story building with only superficial damage to fall in its own footprint as is claimed.

NIST thought theyd be smart and model it to prove it and all they did was prove it cant happen despite claiming it did at the same time.

The the data they used is all secret and to protect us they dont tell us what happened so structural engineers dont make the same mistake in future buildings, hence the crime of 'criminal negligence'.

Yet you accept blurry known edited video clips as proof 911 happened exactly as koolaid was served up

there were no 47 story buildings with superficial damage that fell.


Oh? So you know something NIST didnt? they said that the damage from wtc 1 was superficial refer to and read their nistar report and it was 47 stories

[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/wtc7_nist_collapse_floorplan.jpg[/image]

and the damage was soooooo superficial that you cant find so much as one pic anywhere, just lip service from nutsuckers claiming it took out half the building when not one so much as 1 column was dinged much less severed.


I know something you dont know, retard. If you mean wtc 7, (WTC 1 was 104 floors) they did not say that damage was superficial, nowhere. I read it. You cannot read. You are a cretin and do not understand English or anything else in the real world.




ManOeuvre -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/12/2016 7:37:57 AM)

OP, do you have any pencils for sale from that cup?




vincentML -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/12/2016 10:37:30 AM)

quote:

As an example its 100% impossible for a 47 story building with only superficial damage to fall in its own footprint as is claimed.

Was the damage at the Pentagon also caused by a bomb? No plane there as well?




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/12/2016 10:40:45 AM)

I always find myself wondering why people waste their time with this shit, the claims have been debunked repeatedly over the last decade and a half, yet still the truthers keep making the same claims, so why bother debunking the claims again.




Termyn8or -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/12/2016 11:06:54 AM)

Diz, debunkers have been debunked more than once.

And the fact is that so much of this skullduggery is true that people are more inclined to believe it - because it is more likely to be true rather than what the "authorities" say. And don't try to tell me that the government doesn't lie. And the CIA doesn't lie. And the FBI, entrapping those kids and that Arab guy in 1993 at the WTC, they all told the truth to get that shit done ? Bullshit. they lie about the economy, unemployment, they hide behind closed doors and do things in secret on our dime. the only thing Assange and Snoden didn't do right is they didn't go far enough. If I was Snowden I would get the Russian government to sneak Assange out of that embassy and start a TV network and just let all the fucking secrets out, with the exception of names and locations of operative when it might endanger theiri lives. (which someone in the US government did and not a god damn thing happened, remember ?)

They can videotape you when you go to the fucking bathroom at work, the only secrets the government should be allowed to keep is how to make certain weapons, NOTHING ELSE. They work for us, I want them on videotape 24/7, like they want us to be. Fukum.

In more than four years, Nixon erased 18½ minute of tape that he recorded VOLUNTARILY. And you think he was dishonest ? Compared to these fucks we have now ? Really ? He actually DID turn over those tapes, now, let's talk about that psychotic, Aspergic bitch who who thinks it is OK to keep her official correspondence away from even the people she worked for.

But they can videotape you when you go to the bathroom at work.

They are headed for a fucking insurrection and I wish I was still strong enough to lead it.

T^T




KJoeDuo -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/12/2016 12:02:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: KJoeDuo

Seriously- do you have even a modicum of structural and/or materials engineering experience or knowledge?

Now- just for the sake of argument... Have you ever read the structural analysis of the collapse in the 9/11 report?

quote:


The 9/11 report was one of biggest crocks of shit in history and almost every participant has disavowed it. The story we got from govt. was also a huge crock of shit but now it's all part of American lore. There was never a real investigation and there will never be a grand jury so.....?


So- you have never read it and do not understand the basics to how it was constructed, why it was unique relative to engineered construction, what the transition temperatures of steel are, what the temperature of the core materials reached, how the skin was integral to the overall integrity.... Etc.

Because someone on the internet told you that "it is all BS"?

Understood.

In the military and in any position that requires investigative integrity, we call that "willfull ignorance"

But, thank you for the response .

Please know you are entitled to an opinion- but not to changing the facts. So far all we have heard is opinion based in supposition and allegation without attribution.




KJoeDuo -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/12/2016 4:22:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

No, like I wrote, nothing will be done about it. Just understand those of us that have serious doubts about what we've been told happened, also...without substantial proof.



[sm=banghead.gif]

So, no sources for your claims. Just take your word for it. Don't let me see it in print. I'm not even asking for a credible source.... I am asking to see the words you just printed from something... hell, I'd take a bathroom wall at this point.


Yes- THAT! (Although Indoneant credible sources as there are so many quack theories about everything from 9/11 to The dark side of the sun, I need more than "speculative disinformation" or willful ignorance posing as "intelligent speculation" at this point)




MrRodgers -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/13/2016 1:57:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KJoeDuo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

No, like I wrote, nothing will be done about it. Just understand those of us that have serious doubts about what we've been told happened, also...without substantial proof.



[sm=banghead.gif]

So, no sources for your claims. Just take your word for it. Don't let me see it in print. I'm not even asking for a credible source.... I am asking to see the words you just printed from something... hell, I'd take a bathroom wall at this point.


Yes- THAT! (Although Indoneant credible sources as there are so many quack theories about everything from 9/11 to The dark side of the sun, I need more than "speculative disinformation" or willful ignorance posing as "intelligent speculation" at this point)


I made no claims at all. I have very serious doubts about what we've been told by the govt. because those claims too, have been made...without 'substantial proof.'

Furthermore, I offer no 'speculative disinformation' or demonstrate any 'willful ignorance' posed as 'intelligent speculation.'




Termyn8or -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/13/2016 2:07:11 AM)

FR

i have another angle on it that might be true. Whether or not the government was complicit, they shielded the real information too get people used to not getting the story and believing superficial accounts without getting in depth facts That way you will be more conditioned to accept their lies.

Like the WMDs in Iraq that weren't there. Then they changed their story to they were moved to Syria. Well then why didn't they attack Syria, and I mean BACK THEN. If they can say they were moved to Syria, they did not get that information fucking yesterday. Saddam had complied with everything they said, there were regular inspections before the attack and nothing was found.

They lie so much only a moron like Ron would believe them.

T^T




MrRodgers -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/13/2016 2:08:13 AM)

quote:


ORIGINAL: KJoeDuo

Seriously- do you have even a modicum of structural and/or materials engineering experience or knowledge?

Now- just for the sake of argument... Have you ever read the structural analysis of the collapse in the 9/11 report?


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

The 9/11 report was one of biggest crocks of shit in history and almost every participant has disavowed it. The story we got from govt. was also a huge crock of shit but now it's all part of American lore. There was never a real investigation and there will never be a grand jury so.....?

quote:


So- you have never read it and do not understand the basics to how it was constructed, why it was unique relative to engineered construction, what the transition temperatures of steel are, what the temperature of the core materials reached, how the skin was integral to the overall integrity.... Etc.

Because someone on the internet told you that "it is all BS"?

Understood.

In the military and in any position that requires investigative integrity, we call that "willfull ignorance"

But, thank you for the response .

Please know you are entitled to an opinion- but not to changing the facts. So far all we have heard is opinion based in supposition and allegation without attribution.


Farmer, Dean of Rutger Universities’ School of Law and former Attorney General of New Jersey, was responsible for drafting the original flawed 9/11 report.

In John Farmer’s book: “The Ground Truth: The Story Behind America’s Defense on 9/11″, the author builds the inescapably convincing case that the official version… is almost entirely untrue.

The 9/11 Commission now tells us that the official version of 9/11 was based on false testimony and documents and is almost entirely untrue. The details of this massive cover-up are carefully outlined in a book by John Farmer, who was the Senior Counsel for the 9/11 Commission.

Does Farmer have cooperation and agreement from other members of the Commission? Yes. Did they say Bush ordered 9/11? No. Do they say that the 9/11 Commission was lied to by the FBI, CIA, Whitehouse and NORAD? Yes. Is there full documentary proof of this? Yes.

Farmer states…“at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened… I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.”

With the only “official” 9/11 report now totally false, where do we go from here? Who is hurt by these lies? The families of the victims of 9/11 have fought, for years, to get to the truth. For years, our government has hidden behind lies and secrecy to deny them closure.
What does Farmer’s book tell us? Farmer offers no solutions, only a total and full rejection of what was told and his own his own ideas concerning the total failure of honesty on the part of the government, a government with something to hide.

HERE

Like I've written, far, far too many unanswered questions and far, far too much doubt that casts serious doubt on the whole incident, how it happened and just who did it.




Termyn8or -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/13/2016 2:49:53 AM)

I want to know about those Israeli "students". Now that Obama is not going to sign the bill to allow the families of those killed to sue Saudi Arabia, they won't be able to sue Israel either.

How did they know this was going to happen. They were up there with cameras according to all accounts. They had to have advance knowledge or they would have, supposedly, been in school.

Anyone looking into that ? No, they were just quickly deported. And the Arabians who were her got flown back home when all other flights were grounded.

Did someone just make that shit up ? Those two facts, if true, are VERY damning.

T^T




MrRodgers -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/13/2016 7:04:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I want to know about those Israeli "students". Now that Obama is not going to sign the bill to allow the families of those killed to sue Saudi Arabia, they won't be able to sue Israel either.

How did they know this was going to happen. They were up there with cameras according to all accounts. They had to have advance knowledge or they would have, supposedly, been in school.

Anyone looking into that ? No, they were just quickly deported. And the Arabians who were her got flown back home when all other flights were grounded.

Did someone just make that shit up ? Those two facts, if true, are VERY damning.

T^T

There are several things very suspicious about what was never 'looked into' concerning 9/11. Things that are very true.




WickedsDesire -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/14/2016 3:59:39 AM)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_4946751/tm.htm fits in with gauge thread not sure which one came first.

there was something very off about what happened that day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center and WTC 7, to me, is a mystery.

To me its bit like trying to unravel whether a ufo really did crash in Roswell or whether man really landed on the moon -to cite two comparable examples and the absurdity arguments can take from one or counter sides.

or, when someone states a false premise and bases the whole chapter and verse on that singular statement...An inconvenient truth I have never watched, nor do I ever intend too.





Termyn8or -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/14/2016 7:17:20 AM)

"or whether man really landed on the moon"

I debunked that conspiracy theory myself. The first thing to remember is why would they do it ? To bilk the people out of tax money ? They were already doing fine with the cold war and that was financing their military buildup.

But there is also the fact that I figured out after much consideration, that it would have cost more to fake it than to really do it. Kids all over this planet had telescopes back then. Here, they used to have them right near the entrance at most Sears stores. Edmund Scientific sold kits for Cassegrains before they became a toy company. Russian kids had telescopes and so did their government. If they didn't see a ship going there is would be all over the world news. And if not the Russians which at the time would have loved to show us down there was the rest of Europe and Asia that would have been asking "Why didn't we see the ship ?". So, the only way to do it would be to have an unmanned ship, which would have saved money but would have to be remote controlled to do what it did. Literally, three people were cheaper. And the chance of getting caught in the fraud would not go well for the US. First of all JFK called for it, he did not want it faked, I really believe that. Maybe his morals were not 100 % but they weren't that bad, especially compared to now.

It would simply be too hard to fake. and now we know about the supposed waving of the flag indicating air currents, well folks, on Mars it would be hard to have an atmosphere not just because of the lower gravity but because of solar wind. That is a stream of particles coming from the sun that would blow any atmosphere off of Mars because it does not have the magnetic field etc. to hold it. The gravity on Earth is NOT the only thing that keeps our atmosphere here. Therefore, if solar wind can blow an atmosphere away it is logical to assume it can also move a piece of cloth. Hell, in a vacuum wioth low gravity even intense light can move a piece of cloth. But people who claim shit like this do not know science, but then neither do politicians.. Fucking Woman's body with a legitimate rape and this 6,000 year shit. Ad it is the People who elect them. Whaddya gonna do ? Leaders. Leaders of fools making us all look bad. And I am not a liberal and can't fucking stand the democrats, but these people are just too fucking ridiculous.

Like Alex Jones. If you go there, just watch the videos and read the transcripts. When that asshole starts talking hit the back button. The information is actually good but when he puts his opinion into it, it is totally wrecked. I don't even go there, I can get the same shit without his mouth all over the internet.

But what I say I still say, even if the government is not complicit or whatever in 911, they purposely withold information to train people to accept the lack of information so they can lie more, and pick your pocket more for made up bogeymen. Like the WMDs, remember ? Yeah, you might remember that but with every new thing, out goes an older thing from people's memory. OK, 911, what about 1993 at the WTC with the truck bomb the fucking FBI supplied the explosives for ? And that phone call ? And that was decades ago, you think they got any less immoral since then ? You think they found god or some shit ?

Bullshit. Plus the fact though I don't want to insult anyone, but 3,000 people is a shitty death count. I would consider it a failure. If I was the perpetrator of 911 it would not be 911. It would be all the planes attack the whitehouse and pentagon and really put the motherfuckers out. But the hijackers had a different idea. They could have hit a football game and killed ten times as many people, like on superbowl Sunday or something.

Fuck the Israelis kill 3,000 Palestinians every time a bottle rocket falls in one of their backyards. Know why we have no stats on how many Jews die because of Palestinian rockets ? Because they are not dying ! And now we have lkilled millions of innocent Muslims etc. over 3,000 and created probably nearly a billion enemies due to "collateral damage" and that guy's son who had never did a fucking thing but they destroyed half a fucking city to get him, after they killed his Father, who was the terrorist, not him.

How long do YOU think this kind of shit can go on ?

And yes, the US allowed it, just like Pearl Harbor which garnered popular support for getting into WW2, in which we had no fucking business.

T^T




MercTech -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/18/2016 1:01:06 AM)

Hmm, late to the discussion but a few things on the photographs and documentation....

1> It is "thermite" and not "thermate". The thermite cutter whose patent documents were shown is a more modern update of a "bunker buster" mine developed in Germany during WWI. Thermite charges and thermite lances for cutting structural steel are known technology often used in industry. And, yes, thermite is so easy to make it is crazy. Personal experience note; never teach the class clown how to make thermite. Getting gym doors welded shut during a pep rally was funny, put a true PITA getting the door cut down to get people out.

2> The pictures shown of structural steel show warping consistent with high heat in a structural fire. The pictures show no spalling that would be indicative of thermal cutting with explosives.

3> A detailed engineering evaluation of the structural failure due to aircraft impact would also provide data for actually setting demolition charges to have the same effect. Being devil's advocate; I can see public safety reasons for not releasing the raw data to the general public and only releasing the results of the evaluation.

One thing that was an engineering take away from the USS Stark missile hits and the Twin Towers collapse was that structural aluminum warps and fails much faster than steel under structural fire conditions. I frankly don't see enough in the data presented to imply some cover up or conspiracy.




MrRodgers -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/18/2016 2:51:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

I always find myself wondering why people waste their time with this shit, the claims have been debunked repeatedly over the last decade and a half, yet still the truthers keep making the same claims, so why bother debunking the claims again.

What claims have been debunked ? Can't claim a plane hit the Pentagon or crashed into the dirt in PA. There were no planes to be found at those 'crash' sites. Can't in any way claim that 47 stories (WTC 7) can come down in free fall from two rather ordinary office fires.

Much of what the govt. told us has in fact...been debunked.

Can't claim the FBI didn't confiscate 83 video recordings of the attack on the Pentagon claiming in the first FOIA trial [it] lost, that the recordings didn't exist, then claimed in the 2nd FOIA trial [it] lost again that the tapes that didn't exist...were destroyed. Gee, I wonder why ? You think it may be because they didn't want anybody to see them ? Gee, I wonder why ?

There were many things 'claimed' by the govt. that were never proven. And it is still going on. 2015 HERE




MrRodgers -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/18/2016 2:56:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Hmm, late to the discussion but a few things on the photographs and documentation....

1> It is "thermite" and not "thermate". The thermite cutter whose patent documents were shown is a more modern update of a "bunker buster" mine developed in Germany during WWI. Thermite charges and thermite lances for cutting structural steel are known technology often used in industry. And, yes, thermite is so easy to make it is crazy. Personal experience note; never teach the class clown how to make thermite. Getting gym doors welded shut during a pep rally was funny, put a true PITA getting the door cut down to get people out.

2> The pictures shown of structural steel show warping consistent with high heat in a structural fire. The pictures show no spalling that would be indicative of thermal cutting with explosives.

3> A detailed engineering evaluation of the structural failure due to aircraft impact would also provide data for actually setting demolition charges to have the same effect. Being devil's advocate; I can see public safety reasons for not releasing the raw data to the general public and only releasing the results of the evaluation.

One thing that was an engineering take away from the USS Stark missile hits and the Twin Towers collapse was that structural aluminum warps and fails much faster than steel under structural fire conditions. I frankly don't see enough in the data presented to imply some cover up or conspiracy.

One occurrence that struck me as unusual though was that a very similarly built steel frame bldg. caught fire in Spain I think it was. They let the fire burn itself out, nobody was in it. Crazy thing happened, it burned all night and 24 hours later...there it stood, all of the steel remained just as it was standing...just discolored.




Termyn8or -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/18/2016 4:57:55 AM)

Not proof. Different construction methods, building codes and so forth.

Go ahead and say I have no cites about the end of life thing. Know why ? Because you need a certain type pf contractor license to get them.

You have seen ON TV buildings brought down by expert demolitoinists with explosive charges. In the meantime it took them over six months to demolish a parkig garage in dowtown Cleveland with a wrecking ball. Why didn't they just brig in the dynamite brothers ? It was because the structure was too old to come under the new building codes.

There are too many people in NYC to say there were no planes. The only way they woudn't have heard them is if they doing supersonic speed, and I am pretty sure they were not cap-able of that. In fact even if they were capable of mach one they could not do it at such a low altitude. And if they were, it is more likely that they would have just cut those buildings in two and could have landed in the ocean. And the top parts of the buildings did not topple down, this is a sideways impact, if I hit you on the right you fell to the left.

I agree that too many things do not make sense. I agree that the government let it happen at the very least, and that they let Pearl Harbor happen after antagonizing the Japanes into doing it, just like they antagonized the Arabs to do in the WTC.

And the owner of those building doubled up on the insurance shortly before.

I know we got fucked and lied to. Who wants to grab their guns and stand with me and storm the whitehouse ?

(sound of chirping crickets)

I thought so.

T^T




Real0ne -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/20/2016 10:06:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ManOeuvre

OP, do you have any pencils for sale from that cup?



nope the gubblmint in collusion with their pals made all the money, haliburton, the banks, military industrial complex, and you will pay for it for a very long time sucker.




Real0ne -> RE: 15 Year Anniversery of the 9/11, The fraud lives on! (9/20/2016 10:17:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

More enlightenment from stef.

T^T



we always have party on those rare occasions stef has something germane to say. lol




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