RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/23/2016 2:56:47 PM)

Yes I know they did... and after the investigation if there is no prosecution then I think the police should release the video...but not before...because if there is a prosecution it will make it difficult for a fair trial.

Butch




vincentML -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/23/2016 4:22:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes I know they did... and after the investigation if there is no prosecution then I think the police should release the video...but not before...because if there is a prosecution it will make it difficult for a fair trial.

Butch

For me, Butch, the issue is that police are infrequently prosecuted and seldom accountable for the deaths of citizens.

Of the thousands of fatal police shootings from 2005 through 2015, 54 police officers were criminally charged as a result, and most of those officers were cleared or acquitted. According to a Washington Post report by Alice Crites and Steven Rich, officers who are convicted or plead guilty tend to get an average of four years of jail time, and sometimes only weeks.[9]

With the new video out from the victim's wife in this case i don't see how the police can withhold the police cam video. The wife told the police he had a mental trauma and had no gun. If you look closely you can see one cop standing by the right door of the truck while another was screaming at the driver to "Drop the fucking gun!" (you were right about that, Butch)

Anyway, the police had Kieth Scott surrounded.

One cop to the right of the truck and another shielded by his car. How were the police in danger? They always claim they were in fear for their lives.

Why didn't the police fall back, de-escalate the confrontation, and give Scott a chance to surrender? What they did makes no sense.




thompsonx -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 4:02:51 AM)

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Because we have to assume those evil cops will lie.


Historically that is true. It is refreshing that you admit it.


How about waiting for all the evidence to come in.


What evidence is left to be seen?


The video will be released, just not when you want it.


Then perhaps a court order will give the people what the cops refuse to divulge.

The cheif has seen it a says there was a gun.


Is it possible that he would have a reason to lie?

The mayor (who sure doesn't seem like a cop lacky)


Would you have any validation for this opinion?

says it was a small gun, isn't that enough for you to wait for a proper investigation.


How would releasing the video hamper an investigation?

Or do you want the cop to be convicted, punished , and then, oh yes, then tried?

How would releasing the video cause trhge cop to be convicted or punished before a trial?
Jesus you are phoquing stupid



If it was reversed would you want things like this revealed on the black civilian before all the facts were in?


Yes.


They are showing the tapes to the families, and their lawyers, can you at least wait to see what they have to say?


Why?

You do know that there are witnesses besides the police who verify their story, or is anyone who supports the cops version have to be a liar too?

If the video contradicts them that would make them liars would it not?




thompsonx -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 4:06:23 AM)

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes I know they did... and after the investigation if there is no prosecution then I think the police should release the video...but not before...because if there is a prosecution it will make it difficult for a fair trial.


If the video shows the victim was in the wrong how would that preclude a fair trial?
If the video shows the cop was in the wrong how would that preclude a fair trial?





Termyn8or -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 4:25:17 AM)

"Or do you want the cop to be convicted, punished , and then, oh yes, then tried?"

That's what THEY do.

T^T




Lucylastic -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 4:39:19 AM)

SO guy gets shot in tulsa, police release the video, result: the cop gets charged.....no protests...
Guy gets shot in charlotte, police refuse to release the video..Result:..protests, riots and death.
Co inky dink???






kdsub -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 6:51:41 AM)

Just remember the vast majority of police shootings are necessary to protect the police and innocents. There are very few that are criminal.

Butch




stef -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 10:10:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just remember the vast majority of police shootings are necessary to protect the police and innocents. There are very few that are criminal.

Just remember that because you have to try and convince people by saying that means there is still a real problem that most people are blowing off.




vincentML -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 11:25:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just remember the vast majority of police shootings are necessary to protect the police and innocents. There are very few that are criminal.

Butch

Well, maybe. We will never really know because police have been often suspected of cover-ups especially following blue on black shootings; police are not trusted to investigate rigorously; mayors and police chiefs make cop supportive pre-judgments; prosecutors don't pursue; grand juries don't indict; and trial juries don't convict. Furthermore, many many communities do not report their crime statistics to the national data base.

It is easy for you and I to make comments like you make above because we do not live in communities that are under siege by the police. . . . Charlotte:

Nearly all of Charlotte lies in Mecklenburg County, which the U.S. Census Bureau estimated had the largest increase in the country in the percentage of people living in distressed neighborhoods during the first 15 years of this century — an index that combines unemployment, poverty rates and other items, like how many businesses close.

Those pockets of poverty aren't immediately evident. Charlotte doesn't have many stereotypical slums. Instead, lower-rent housing is in apartment complexes or condominiums nestled behind tree-lined roads or off the main thoroughfares.

That's the kind of place where Scott lived. Tracy McLean lived in the condominium complex just down the road; she said teams of police frequently come to the neighborhoods full of black and Latino families in a show of force, looking for suspects they often don't find, instead of talking to residents and getting to know them.

"The fear needs to be dispelled," Tracy McLean said. "It's fear, and it's ridiculous fear."

In the mid-1990s, as Charlotte pushed to become a world-class city, its leaders cracked down on crime with a heavy-handed police force. Longtime African-American residents remember James Cooper, a 19-year-old black man killed by a white officer in 1996 as he reached back in his car window during a traffic stop to check on his 4-year-old daughter. The officer said he thought he had a gun.

They also remember Carolyn Boetticher, a passenger in a car that sped toward and then past white officers doing a license check in a high-crime neighborhood. Police fired 22 shots that came from the front, side and rear of the fleeing car. She was shot in the neck.

None of the officers faced criminal charges, but Charlotte created a citizen review panel for its police department.

And even when Charlotte police seem to get it right, the black community has been left feeling justice was not served. Jonathan Ferrell was a 24-year-old unarmed black man shot 10 times by white officer Randall Kerrick. Ferrell had just crashed his car in a suburban neighborhood and banged on a neighbor's door looking for help. She called 911.

Charlotte police charged Kerrick with voluntary manslaughter one day later. But the jury couldn't reach a unanimous verdict at his trial, and state prosecutors decided not to retry the case. There were peaceful protests then, which prompted headlines like, "How Charlotte Avoided Ferguson's Fate."

SNIP

It reminded him of his lifeguard days, when Barber said he was warned that drowning people would violently fight off the swimmers trying to help them out of confusion and fear.

"The type of riots we are seeing in Charlotte is a systemic response for people who are drowning in injustice," he said.
You can read more about Charlotte here

As I said, it easy for us to dismiss the protests from where we stand. White Americans in the suburbs rarely encounter the police. Maybe we should listen with willing empathy to the complaints of minority citizens instead of reacting automatically with condemnations of disrespecting the flag (Kaepernick) and condemnations of disrespecting the police (Charlotte)




BamaD -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 2:08:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just remember the vast majority of police shootings are necessary to protect the police and innocents. There are very few that are criminal.

Butch

Well, maybe. We will never really know because police have been often suspected of cover-ups especially following blue on black shootings; police are not trusted to investigate rigorously; mayors and police chiefs make cop supportive pre-judgments; prosecutors don't pursue; grand juries don't indict; and trial juries don't convict. Furthermore, many many communities do not report their crime statistics to the national data base.

It is easy for you and I to make comments like you make above because we do not live in communities that are under siege by the police. . . . Charlotte:

Nearly all of Charlotte lies in Mecklenburg County, which the U.S. Census Bureau estimated had the largest increase in the country in the percentage of people living in distressed neighborhoods during the first 15 years of this century — an index that combines unemployment, poverty rates and other items, like how many businesses close.

Those pockets of poverty aren't immediately evident. Charlotte doesn't have many stereotypical slums. Instead, lower-rent housing is in apartment complexes or condominiums nestled behind tree-lined roads or off the main thoroughfares.

That's the kind of place where Scott lived. Tracy McLean lived in the condominium complex just down the road; she said teams of police frequently come to the neighborhoods full of black and Latino families in a show of force, looking for suspects they often don't find, instead of talking to residents and getting to know them.

"The fear needs to be dispelled," Tracy McLean said. "It's fear, and it's ridiculous fear."

In the mid-1990s, as Charlotte pushed to become a world-class city, its leaders cracked down on crime with a heavy-handed police force. Longtime African-American residents remember James Cooper, a 19-year-old black man killed by a white officer in 1996 as he reached back in his car window during a traffic stop to check on his 4-year-old daughter. The officer said he thought he had a gun.

They also remember Carolyn Boetticher, a passenger in a car that sped toward and then past white officers doing a license check in a high-crime neighborhood. Police fired 22 shots that came from the front, side and rear of the fleeing car. She was shot in the neck.

None of the officers faced criminal charges, but Charlotte created a citizen review panel for its police department.

And even when Charlotte police seem to get it right, the black community has been left feeling justice was not served. Jonathan Ferrell was a 24-year-old unarmed black man shot 10 times by white officer Randall Kerrick. Ferrell had just crashed his car in a suburban neighborhood and banged on a neighbor's door looking for help. She called 911.

Charlotte police charged Kerrick with voluntary manslaughter one day later. But the jury couldn't reach a unanimous verdict at his trial, and state prosecutors decided not to retry the case. There were peaceful protests then, which prompted headlines like, "How Charlotte Avoided Ferguson's Fate."

SNIP

It reminded him of his lifeguard days, when Barber said he was warned that drowning people would violently fight off the swimmers trying to help them out of confusion and fear.

"The type of riots we are seeing in Charlotte is a systemic response for people who are drowning in injustice," he said.
You can read more about Charlotte here

As I said, it easy for us to dismiss the protests from where we stand. White Americans in the suburbs rarely encounter the police. Maybe we should listen with willing empathy to the complaints of minority citizens instead of reacting automatically with condemnations of disrespecting the flag (Kaepernick) and condemnations of disrespecting the police (Charlotte)

I live in a minority (mostly) neighborhood, where I meet the police often.
Once a cop questioned me about standing on my own porch.
But I guess since I am white I am not allowed to have an opinion.




thompsonx -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 2:19:44 PM)


ORIGINAL: BamaD

But I guess since I am white I am not allowed to have an opinion.


Just as every asshole is entitled to fart you are entitled to your opinion no matter how ignorant,unsubstantiated or ill founded it is.




kdsub -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 2:23:46 PM)

I'm sorry Vince I am just not as distrustful as you when it comes to our law enforcement... My community has seen more of a siege than Charlotte and police have managed to enforce the law fairly.

The rest of your post just reinforces what I have been telling you all through this thread...The problems in many African American communities can only be solved when attitudes and life styles are changed. When jobs are created and institutionalized discrimination is rooted out.

These are social problems that need to be addressed and all of us, black white and any other shade of skin, need to concentrate on what are the real reasons of discontent. Right now these issues, the root causes, are being ignored while lashing out blindly at law enforcement.

I would like to see movements like Black Lives Matter celebrate their success in bringing more accountability to law enforcement... Then move on to the real problems facing African American communities. That would be a movement I would support and stand with.

Butch




bounty44 -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 3:14:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: BamaD

But I guess since I am white I am not allowed to have an opinion.


Just as every asshole is entitled to fart you are entitled to your opinion no matter how ignorant,unsubstantiated or ill founded it is.



I find myself wondering lately if your life is so utterly devoid of meaning, such that you have to come here all day long, and repeatedly attempt to puff yourself up by insulting others.

its the very definition of pathetic.

i find you intellectually, socially and morally loathsome, but in so much as i care about humanity in general, i can say i feel bad for you, and wholeheartedly believe youd be better off if you left the forums and got a life outside of them.




vincentML -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 3:53:43 PM)

quote:

The problems in many African American communities can only be solved when attitudes and life styles are changed. When jobs are created and institutionalized discrimination is rooted out.

Institutionalized discrimination! That is exactly why Charlotte citizens are in the streets protesting against police shooting of blacks. Which institution do you think they are bitching about, Butch?

Why do police forces target black communities? More violent crime there?

According to this article 93% of black victims are killed by other blacks. But . . . and this I did not know . . . 84% of white victims are killed by other whites.

Does that small difference of 9.0% justify way more police raids in black neighborhoods? Or is that evidence of systemic institutional police bias?

Attitudes and life styles need to be changed? That strikes me as "white talk" dismissing black grievances. Sorry I had to say that.




BamaD -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 4:01:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

The problems in many African American communities can only be solved when attitudes and life styles are changed. When jobs are created and institutionalized discrimination is rooted out.

Institutionalized discrimination! That is exactly why Charlotte citizens are in the streets protesting against police shooting of blacks. Which institution do you think they are bitching about, Butch?

Why do police forces target black communities? More violent crime there?

According to this article 93% of black victims are killed by other blacks. But . . . and this I did not know . . . 84% of white victims are killed by other whites.

Does that small difference of 9.0% justify way more police raids in black neighborhoods? Or is that evidence of systemic institutional police bias?

Attitudes and life styles need to be changed? That strikes me as "white talk" dismissing black grievances. Sorry I had to say that.

Because as many blacks are murdered as whites, but from a much smaller population and much more concentrated area, you are smart enough to know that.




vincentML -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 4:24:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

The problems in many African American communities can only be solved when attitudes and life styles are changed. When jobs are created and institutionalized discrimination is rooted out.

Institutionalized discrimination! That is exactly why Charlotte citizens are in the streets protesting against police shooting of blacks. Which institution do you think they are bitching about, Butch?

Why do police forces target black communities? More violent crime there?

According to this article 93% of black victims are killed by other blacks. But . . . and this I did not know . . . 84% of white victims are killed by other whites.

Does that small difference of 9.0% justify way more police raids in black neighborhoods? Or is that evidence of systemic institutional police bias?

Attitudes and life styles need to be changed? That strikes me as "white talk" dismissing black grievances. Sorry I had to say that.

Because as many blacks are murdered as whites, but from a much smaller population and much more concentrated area, you are smart enough to know that.

No, that's not true. More whites are murdered. Your mis-perception is why black communities are so easily targeted by police. But, I agree with you that black communities are more concentrated in smaller areas which also makes them more convenient to target.




BamaD -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 4:59:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

The problems in many African American communities can only be solved when attitudes and life styles are changed. When jobs are created and institutionalized discrimination is rooted out.

Institutionalized discrimination! That is exactly why Charlotte citizens are in the streets protesting against police shooting of blacks. Which institution do you think they are bitching about, Butch?

Why do police forces target black communities? More violent crime there?

According to this article 93% of black victims are killed by other blacks. But . . . and this I did not know . . . 84% of white victims are killed by other whites.

Does that small difference of 9.0% justify way more police raids in black neighborhoods? Or is that evidence of systemic institutional police bias?

Attitudes and life styles need to be changed? That strikes me as "white talk" dismissing black grievances. Sorry I had to say that.

Because as many blacks are murdered as whites, but from a much smaller population and much more concentrated area, you are smart enough to know that.

No, that's not true. More whites are murdered. Your mis-perception is why black communities are so easily targeted by police. But, I agree with you that black communities are more concentrated in smaller areas which also makes them more convenient to target.

Ok, 52% of murders are committed by blacks.
Blacks are almost always murdered by other blacks.
Even if the gross numbers are higher for whites, there would be a higher concentration of murders, and other crimes, in black neighborhoods thus a greater concentration of police attention.
You want the people at the greatest risk to have less protection?
That is your choice, more police to protect them, even if the residents are paranoid enough to think those cops are after them.
Or pull out and leave them defensless?




thompsonx -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 5:45:21 PM)

ORIGINAL: bounty44
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: BamaD

But I guess since I am white I am not allowed to have an opinion.


Just as every asshole is entitled to fart you are entitled to your opinion no matter how ignorant,unsubstantiated or ill founded it is.



I find myself wondering lately if your life is so utterly devoid of meaning, such that you have to come here all day long, and repeatedly attempt to puff yourself up by insulting others.

its the very definition of pathetic.

i find you intellectually, socially and morally loathsome, but in so much as i care about humanity in general, i can say i feel bad for you, and wholeheartedly believe youd be better off if you left the forums and got a life outside of them.

Poor sweet butthurt baby. stop crying and mommy will put some lotion on it for you




vincentML -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 6:03:31 PM)

quote:

Ok, 52% of murders are committed by blacks.
Blacks are almost always murdered by other blacks.
Even if the gross numbers are higher for whites, there would be a higher concentration of murders, and other crimes, in black neighborhoods thus a greater concentration of police attention.
You want the people at the greatest risk to have less protection?
That is your choice, more police to protect them, even if the residents are paranoid enough to think those cops are after them.
Or pull out and leave them defensless?

When NYC police ceased their two decades long stop and frisk tactics in minority neighborhoods . . . . . crime rates went down!

It is the quality of attention rather than the quantity that seems to matter.

The President's Commission on Community Policing (I think it is called but I'm not sure) tasks the Justice Department to support community policing strategies. Getting to know the members of the community seems to be more effective a strategy than flying rambo squads. Actually, community policing philosophy began decades ago. The Charlotte Mayor keeps referring to the "partners" but community policing requires commitment on both sides. The protests as well as the behavior of police don't speak well of the effort in that city.

The following issues have been found to assist
police departments engage in effective community policing efforts:

Form community partnerships with a wide-range of partners, above and beyond active resident groups

Increase the department’s accessibility to the residents it serves

Train personnel at every level of the department in best practices in community policing

Work towards increasing officer buy-in about the benefits of the community policing philosophy

Prioritize sustained and meaningful commitment by the department’s leadership to the community policing philosophy

Integrate community policing activities into performance evaluation systems

Continue to support systematic and standardized problem solving approaches

A 2010 summary of the ten most rigorous studies on the effectiveness of SARA-based problem-oriented policing between 1993 and 2006 concluded that these efforts achieved statistically-significant reductions in crime and disorder in their affected cities.


source

There is much more explanatory information in the linked article.

The problem I see with your comments is that they only reflect one strategy of policing . . . . a rather old and outdated strategy.




thompsonx -> RE: Arrogant, Entitled, Cry-Baby, and Coward (9/24/2016 6:13:13 PM)


ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just remember the vast majority of police shootings are necessary to protect the police and innocents. There are very few that are criminal.

If that were true why was the lapd put into recievership by the doj for being an ongoing criminal conspiracy? The doj has spent the last two years trying to teach the lapd how to be cops and not crooks.




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