RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ?

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/1/2016 12:28:23 AM

PeonForHer

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FR

If submission is a gift, so is dominance. But, the bottom line is that you have to see that what you are is valuable.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/1/2016 2:55:54 AM

Kana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GBaxter

I know it's a popular platitude we hear in BDSM, but as some female subs can be rather arrogant and condescending about it,
is a female sub, or a female switch's submission really a gift ?

Sigh
A gift is defined as something freely given with no strings attached.
Submission is many things and can take many forms.
Very very rarely, do they come w/o strings like responsibility attached.

It's many things, but it ain't a gift.

Leers.

In fact, I think the opposite is closer to true.
Domination is a gift and ownership/structure/use/abuse are all gifts from the dominant to the sub in that they don't have to give the subs anything but choose too, snickers, out of nothing more than personal generosity and the kindness of their giving generous dominant hearts

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/1/2016 4:40:26 AM

longwayhome

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

If submission is a gift, so is dominance. But, the bottom line is that you have to see that what you are is valuable.

What he said.

I think people are forgetting that gift only means something you give. The special meaning of it as a present, like those you wrap up at Christmas, is partly based on God's gifts (for which if you are religious you are freely given and you should be grateful) and a commercial construction to encourage us to buy products as "gifts".

Someone who thinks he is "God's gift" might colloquially be a big headed person, but the translation from the original scripture means the same as "given by God" which is a slightly different thing.

The idea of "no strings attached" being part of a "gift" is a fairly modern one.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/1/2016 5:15:19 AM

longwayhome

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Apologies for being so literal.

The whole submission is a gift thing is fine if it reminds you that you should value yourself by engaging your brain and making sure that you are getting something you need when you are submitting.

It's just when it marks a feeling of entitlement or one-sidedness for which your dominant should be grateful, it can get a bit precious, sickly and unhealthy.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/1/2016 6:16:02 AM

kiwisub22

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

If submission is a gift, so is dominance. But, the bottom line is that you have to see that what you are is valuable.

Which is why I don't understand the "worm" mentality. I've raised worms, and I wouldn't want to dominate them- in fact, I wouldn't want them in the house!

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/1/2016 7:19:46 AM

longwayhome

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub22

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

If submission is a gift, so is dominance. But, the bottom line is that you have to see that what you are is valuable.

Which is why I don't understand the "worm" mentality. I've raised worms, and I wouldn't want to dominate them- in fact, I wouldn't want them in the house!

With you there 100%.

I don't personally do worm or worthless. Submitting is a deeply held need and a conscious decision I make in a personal relationship with someone, not a general life position for work, shopping and places where other roles are required.

Whatever the dynamic and whether it includes humiliation or the like, you both have to know that you are satisfying deeper needs within you and therefore both have value to each other.

Any Dom/me who says that a sub they are with is nothing to them and means it on every level is just an abuser. On the other hand really wanting and needing a "nothing" in your life, if that is the sincere need of your other, is someone exactly having value to you.

As a sub there has to be a fit and a care about your needs, even if you generally do what you're told and don't top from the bottom. You need to both understand the deal and openly consent to it.

Link to previous relevant thread

< Message edited by longwayhome -- 10/1/2016 7:22:12 AM >

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/1/2016 1:27:02 PM

tamaka

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quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub22

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

If submission is a gift, so is dominance. But, the bottom line is that you have to see that what you are is valuable.

Which is why I don't understand the "worm" mentality. I've raised worms, and I wouldn't want to dominate them- in fact, I wouldn't want them in the house!

With you there 100%.

I don't personally do worm or worthless. Submitting is a deeply held need and a conscious decision I make in a personal relationship with someone, not a general life position for work, shopping and places where other roles are required.

Whatever the dynamic and whether it includes humiliation or the like, you both have to know that you are satisfying deeper needs within you and therefore both have value to each other.

Any Dom/me who says that a sub they are with is nothing to them and means it on every level is just an abuser. On the other hand really wanting and needing a "nothing" in your life, if that is the sincere need of your other, is someone exactly having value to you.

As a sub there has to be a fit and a care about your needs, even if you generally do what you're told and don't top from the bottom. You need to both understand the deal and openly consent to it.

Link to previous relevant thread

I love what you wrote. Especially about the 'nothing' having value and also about the importance of actually 'caring' about each other. i think the greatest gift a dom can give a sub is the ability to bring the sub to a new level of what they will do/take for/from the dom because the dom so well has mastery over the sub and fulfills the subs needs so wonderfully that the sub truly cares about ensuring they do the same for their dom.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/1/2016 5:44:20 PM

Gauge

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To me, submission is not a gift, it is the spoils of war on the battlefield for her mind.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/1/2016 5:57:52 PM

Greatlilbabygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

To me, submission is not a gift, it is the spoils of war on the battlefield for her mind.

Beautiful. And I agree. Also, in my experience the Dom can't think the war is won ever. It's a continuous battle...lol

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

I love what you wrote. Especially about the 'nothing' having value and also about the importance of actually 'caring' about each other. i think the greatest gift a dom can give a sub is the ability to bring the sub to a new level of what they will do/take for/from the dom because the dom so well has mastery over the sub and fulfills the subs needs so wonderfully that the sub truly cares about ensuring they do the same for their dom.

Yes!!!

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/1/2016 6:00:34 PM

Gauge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

Beautiful. And I agree. Also, in my experience the Dom can't think the war is won ever. It's a continuous battle...lol

Not in my case. I won that battle over 3 years ago, I just keep reminding her of that.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/1/2016 8:41:34 PM

ThatDizzyChick

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quote:

To me, submission is not a gift, it is the spoils of war on the battlefield for her mind.

LOL
Not in my case, it was entirely my idea and if anything the battlefield was for the Fella's mind.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/2/2016 12:35:37 AM

Gauge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

LOL
Not in my case, it was entirely my idea and if anything the battlefield was for the Fella's mind.

So you get it.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/2/2016 1:53:20 AM

MzWhipplash

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No because a gift is given to a person at an alloted time.

A Power Exchange Relationship needs alot of time so both people know each other well. Where the there is mutual Trust, mutual understanding and mutual long term compatibilty so the Submissive or Slave feels their emotional needs are met and feel listened to and the mutual Trust is present so when they are ready to give up control to their Dominant, the Dominant takes control and the Framework the Dominant created for the subjucated person becomes active.

With Trust, Candor, Balance of mutual limits, Love all present it is a mutual Relationship. Neither Dominance or submission is a prize to be won, but it is where foundation cornerstones are developed carefully together to establish a loving, Trusting relationship where the Dominant is in control and the submissive feels safe and cherished and has given up control. And where the Slave has surrendered.

As a Dominant Woman this is how I Lead My relationship with My Precious Property. I am a Lifestyle Poly BDSM British Mistress and our relationship developed this way so I speak from experience.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/2/2016 2:50:28 AM

crazyml

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Some strange perspectives in this thread.

Unless at gun point or overwhelming threat of force, no one takes anything from anyone without a voluntary choice being made. I may not verbally ask for submission, but you can bet your ass the person I am interacting with has a choice. So no matter how you look at it, submission was granted not taken. That is the reality of it. Now in fantasy role play... that is another ballgame entirely.

As far as the stereotype that runs around spouting "submission is a gift"... I just don't see the world from their point of view. I don't think "respect should be earned" either. Respect and manners should be granted by the grace of your good character and retracted when someone shows they don't respond in kind.

QFT

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/2/2016 2:58:50 AM

HoneyBears

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quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

The idea of "no strings attached" being part of a "gift" is a fairly modern one.

^Exactly This^

Some people are mxing up "gift" with no-strings-attached "charity." Nobody presents himself or herself, bearing ... nothing, or bearing nothing of value to another.

Apart from alms-giving charity, when hospitality is given, the recipient is "indebted" to the host. Therefore, it has been customarily - if not historically - understood that it behooves a guest to come bearing welcoming and/or goodwill gifts to preempt a state of disadvantageous indebtedness.

Unless you are coasting along the banks of the river of DeNile, there is not much in the world which escapes the bargaining table.

What good is one-sided Love? Does anyone honestly want to be a giver of the *gift* of unreciprocated personal love? Of course it happens often enough, but only when there is a hidden agenda of some sort involving non-consensual manipulation, unfair game-playing, stacking the deck, etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
If submission is a gift, so is dominance. But, the bottom line is that you have to see that what you are is valuable.

^And This^

-- Lisa & Cub

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/2/2016 3:49:40 AM

PeonForHer

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quote:

Any Dom/me who says that a sub they are with is nothing to them and means it on every level is just an abuser.

Are there any like that, outside of the pay-advert profiles? I hear about them, but have never knowingly come across one.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/2/2016 4:51:58 AM

longwayhome

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Any Dom/me who says that a sub they are with is nothing to them and means it on every level is just an abuser.

Are there any like that, outside of the pay-advert profiles? I hear about them, but have never knowingly come across one.

I think some people talk tough about it and do all the "you are nothing" stuff, but are really just squishy little love puppies inside, who are devastated when their nothing pisses off with someone else.

Some people do get a bad rep for being predatory and taking advantage of subs but I'm sure I've met more people who are vanilla that have that attitude to their unsuspecting victims.

Nothing wrong with good old no strings attached fun/play/shagging if you both know that is what you are getting, but these people draw in others people they know are looking for relationships and then treat them with no respect whatsoever.

Making sure you have self respect when you get into anything however short or long term isn't just for subs. It's for Dom/mes, vanillas and the birds in the trees.

< Message edited by longwayhome -- 10/2/2016 4:52:04 AM >

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/2/2016 5:30:40 AM

PeonForHer

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quote:

Making sure you have self respect when you get into anything however short or long term isn't just for subs. It's for Dom/mes, vanillas and the birds in the trees.

... And the worms those birds pick up. ;)

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/2/2016 6:29:58 AM

longwayhome

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/2/2016 11:35:29 AM

YourSincereSlave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourSincereSlave

As a sub who won't sub for just anyone, yes I see it as a gift, of sorts.
To me, it involves power exchange, therefore I'm giving control so someone specific
The thing is I see domination as a gift as well.
Both sides should cherish and value what is given to them by their counterpart, I think.
That's what makes it a gift.

So, then friendship is a gift
any relationship is a gift
a job is a gift

by that criteria

Friendship is most certainly a gift.
Any relationship as well.

A job isn't.
The employer needs someone to do something.
The worker does the thing in return for pay.
There is nothing personal about it, no intention of "giving", which is what a gift is all about.

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