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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 6:35:18 AM   
ohthat1percent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

FR

I think Awareness would probably say my submission is not so much a gift as it is a pain in the ass sometimes.



Haha ^this! I am sure many a dom feels this. Just as many subs have felt the same re His dominance.

(in reply to Kaliko)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 7:28:13 AM   
Greta75


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FR

No matter how you guys wanna put it. Submission is a big deal to me. Not easily given. Infact, almost never given. As I said, only been given once in my life time so far. Thus yes, it should be treasured and appreciated when I give it.

Some dominants have no problem treating it as a precious gift. I guess end of the day, it's finding the dominant that fits the way you process things.

This is different from having a BDSM top for play where I pretty much order him what to do. That's not a gift and that's not submission.

Trusting someone 100% and giving your life over to someone is a tremendous life altering decision. It's basically trusting someone enough to give up total control. I trust nobody with my life. So for me to hand that over, is just the biggest thing I could ever do in my life.

And a dominant who trivalises this because he has been casually dominating too many subs on a casual basis, that dominating is just like casual sex to him, one night stands ya know, is probably not a dom for me. As he is jaded.

You know, when a man trusts me enough to be open about all his deepest and darkest skeletons to me. To me, that's a gift too. He is gifting me with the most vulnerable parts of himself. That is the way I process it. And I treasure and guard his secrets to my grave.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 10/3/2016 7:35:16 AM >

(in reply to ohthat1percent)
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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 7:57:49 AM   
Greatlilbabygirl


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I'm 100% with you Greta
It's a big reason why my ex Daddy and I dissolved. I felt my submission was earned by him over time and his Dominance was important and special to him and I treasured that . Then he meets another girl and 48 hrs after meeting they are hooking up and playing. I never got over it. Our bond was special to me, and I thought his Dominance was special to him and I respected that, it was part of what I loved about him. But then he casually gives it away to a relative stranger and it not only devalued his Dominance in my eyes, it devalued the submission I gave him slowly and purposefully because he obviously didn't value submission like I did if he could just jump into it with some girl he didn't even really know. So I found I misjudged him terribly and he wanted to just play Dom, not be an actual Dom, and I broke it off after 6 months. Feels like wasted time.

< Message edited by Greatlilbabygirl -- 10/3/2016 7:58:22 AM >

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 12:37:03 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears


quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

The idea of "no strings attached" being part of a "gift" is a fairly modern one.

^Exactly This^

Some people are mxing up "gift" with no-strings-attached "charity." Nobody presents himself or herself, bearing ... nothing, or bearing nothing of value to another.

Apart from alms-giving charity, when hospitality is given, the recipient is "indebted" to the host. Therefore, it has been customarily - if not historically - understood that it behooves a guest to come bearing welcoming and/or goodwill gifts to preempt a state of disadvantageous indebtedness.




I disagree.

Let's submission was a sweater.

When I give someone a sweater, my only hope is that they like it and enjoy wearing it.

If submission was a sweater - You'd be telling the receiver - You can only wear it with the grey slacks, you can only dry clean it, you can only wear it as long as you don't wear a sweater that was given to you by someone else and you have to give me a sweater in return. If you don't do all of those things, I will take the sweater away from you.

Is that how you give gifts?


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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 3:06:07 PM   
Bhruic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GBaxter

I know it's a popular platitude we hear in BDSM, but as some female subs can be rather arrogant and condescending about it,
is a female sub, or a female switch's submission really a gift ?


Yes, since if they chose not to give it, you could not have it... legally.

That they are arrogant and condescending about it just means they are rubbing your nose in their gift. That is a perfect opportunity to politely decline the gift.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 3:11:18 PM   
Bhruic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR

No matter how you guys wanna put it. Submission is a big deal to me. Not easily given. Infact, almost never given. As I said, only been given once in my life time so far. Thus yes, it should be treasured and appreciated when I give it.



Playing devils advocate here, but... just because you are giving something YOU consider of great value, does not obligate the intended recipient to value it as you do. The same is true of all gifts... especially art.

The recipient IS obligated to be polite and respectful, especially if they have an inescapable obligation to accept the gift. And they really should drag it out of the attic and hang it on the wall when you come to visit :)

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 3:32:16 PM   
PeonForHer


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FR

Wow. The average femsub is *so* different to the average malesub, isn't she? In all the time I've been using CS, I've barely ever seen anyone give the remotest toss about the gentler and more sensitive feelings of malesubs. Such a different world, ain't it?

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 3:40:45 PM   
Greatlilbabygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Wow. The average femsub is *so* different to the average malesub, isn't she? In all the time I've been using CS, I've barely ever seen anyone give the remotest toss about the gentler and more sensitive feelings of malesubs. Such a different world, ain't it?


If the majority of them didn't spam randos online begging for us to be their fetish delivery systems then we'd have more sympathy.

I'm sure the ones who are sincere and serious get the empathy they deserve.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 3:48:42 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I've barely ever seen anyone give the remotest toss about the gentler and more sensitive feelings of malesubs.


I have a ton of inappropriate, sexual innuendo comments roaming through my brain...and I'm sitting on my hands to keep from typing them.


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The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 4:20:33 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

I'm 100% with you Greta
It's a big reason why my ex Daddy and I dissolved. I felt my submission was earned by him over time and his Dominance was important and special to him and I treasured that . Then he meets another girl and 48 hrs after meeting they are hooking up and playing. I never got over it. Our bond was special to me, and I thought his Dominance was special to him and I respected that, it was part of what I loved about him. But then he casually gives it away to a relative stranger and it not only devalued his Dominance in my eyes, it devalued the submission I gave him slowly and purposefully because he obviously didn't value submission like I did if he could just jump into it with some girl he didn't even really know. So I found I misjudged him terribly and he wanted to just play Dom, not be an actual Dom, and I broke it off after 6 months. Feels like wasted time.


To me it sounds like he was a good dominant. If a dom has 2 or more subs, it says a lot that he recognizes and respects what each sub needs, where each sub's "head" is and therefore handles each sub as a unique individual. Which means his dominance would probably be different for each. If he has one sub that needs time to build trust and needs to be trained slowly, and he takes his time to fulfill her needs... he did what he needed to dominate her. If the second sub is in a whole different place, and needs the dom to dominate her quickly, she's ready for it and needs it, and he responds to that... good for him. Everyone needs different things. If she had come first, instead of you, she could say "wow... i can't believe how patient you were with her... spending 6 months to get where we got almost right away!" So it sounds like there is potential that you just totally undervalued what he did for you... maybe he is the one who wasted 6 months. Just another POV to consider.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 4:37:39 PM   
tamaka


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I think before you can ask whether submission is a gift or not, you have to ask yourself... what exactly is submission. For example, if someone loves to be bound, and 'tortured' with a vibrator... are they really 'submitting' to someone who will do this for them? To go a step further, what if after they 'gave you' what you want/need, they then wanted you to 'give them' (submit?) to their want/need with something you didn't necessarily enjoy? Where does getting what you need/want end and true 'submission' really begin?


(in reply to GBaxter)
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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 4:38:00 PM   
Greatlilbabygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

I'm 100% with you Greta
It's a big reason why my ex Daddy and I dissolved. I felt my submission was earned by him over time and his Dominance was important and special to him and I treasured that . Then he meets another girl and 48 hrs after meeting they are hooking up and playing. I never got over it. Our bond was special to me, and I thought his Dominance was special to him and I respected that, it was part of what I loved about him. But then he casually gives it away to a relative stranger and it not only devalued his Dominance in my eyes, it devalued the submission I gave him slowly and purposefully because he obviously didn't value submission like I did if he could just jump into it with some girl he didn't even really know. So I found I misjudged him terribly and he wanted to just play Dom, not be an actual Dom, and I broke it off after 6 months. Feels like wasted time.


To me it sounds like he was a good dominant. If a dom has 2 or more subs, it says a lot that he recognizes and respects what each sub needs, where each sub's "head" is and therefore handles each sub as a unique individual. Which means his dominance would probably be different for each. If he has one sub that needs time to build trust and needs to be trained slowly, and he takes his time to fulfill her needs... he did what he needed to dominate her. If the second sub is in a whole different place, and needs the dom to dominate her quickly, she's ready for it and needs it, and he responds to that... good for him. Everyone needs different things. If she had come first, instead of you, she could say "wow... i can't believe how patient you were with her... spending 6 months to get where we got almost right away!" So it sounds like there is potential that you just totally undervalued what he did for you... maybe he is the one who wasted 6 months. Just another POV to consider.


Maybe. Though he admits he treated me poorly and was reckless in how he took on the second girl. She had no experience and he didn't consider her sub frenzy, he just ate up the attention and ended up pushing her to do things she later regretted, and ended up pushing me away in the process because he didn't do what we had negotiated he'd do before taking on a second person. Now a month later she moved back home and I'm not his anymore.

I've always blamed myself for the end of my relationships, except this time. He took a risk taking on a girl with no experience and risked our dynamic and relationship in the process and lost both of us in the end. His choice, but I feel if he had valued his Dominance more and had the idea that his Dominance was worth the wait, he wouldn't be dating a vanilla girl who won't even have sex with him. But he's a great looking guy with a good personality so he'll move on, no doubt. He says he still loves me and wants to keep seeing me, but I told him all I can offer is friendship right now. I no longer trust him or his decision making.

< Message edited by Greatlilbabygirl -- 10/3/2016 4:41:05 PM >

(in reply to tamaka)
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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 4:55:23 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Wow. The average femsub is *so* different to the average malesub, isn't she? In all the time I've been using CS, I've barely ever seen anyone give the remotest toss about the gentler and more sensitive feelings of malesubs. Such a different world, ain't it?

Ummmm... That is not entirely correct.


_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 5:20:30 PM   
ohthat1percent


Posts: 167
Joined: 9/24/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR

No matter how you guys wanna put it. Submission is a big deal to me. Not easily given. Infact, almost never given. As I said, only been given once in my life time so far. Thus yes, it should be treasured and appreciated when I give it.

Some dominants have no problem treating it as a precious gift. I guess end of the day, it's finding the dominant that fits the way you process things.

This is different from having a BDSM top for play where I pretty much order him what to do. That's not a gift and that's not submission.

Trusting someone 100% and giving your life over to someone is a tremendous life altering decision. It's basically trusting someone enough to give up total control. I trust nobody with my life. So for me to hand that over, is just the biggest thing I could ever do in my life.

And a dominant who trivalises this because he has been casually dominating too many subs on a casual basis, that dominating is just like casual sex to him, one night stands ya know, is probably not a dom for me. As he is jaded.

You know, when a man trusts me enough to be open about all his deepest and darkest skeletons to me. To me, that's a gift too. He is gifting me with the most vulnerable parts of himself. That is the way I process it. And I treasure and guard his secrets to my grave.


Honestly, for me, what you have posted sounds utterly exhausting. I don't think I am diligent enough (i'm kinda lazy lol) to constantly have to hold my expression of submission over a guys head to make sure he's treating it all precious and the like. Also that to me is way to much control for me lol. I'd constantly be say nope, not yet, well that put him back two steps.
Just an odd question, but how are you giving him total control and all this deep trusting someone 100% etc, if you hold your submission hostage and constantly evaluate whether or not he is worthy of maintaining your gift to him?

This isn't about trusting a man with your expression of submission -- its trusting him with YOU, and that he will not harm you.

Too many people -- to me -- isolate this submissive part of them - as if its a prize to be won, and they exhaustingly have this check off list as what is needed to win it and that its all this and a box of chip, etc. i'm tired just thinking abou that effort.
When do you get to just be?

Seriously, this is the second time I've seen people utter submission to someone and life altering decision. I don't get that honestly. Entering ANY kind of permanent relationship is life altering, D/s doesn't make it more so, it simply makes it a decision.

To me, by the time you get to permanent, you should already have a fair idea and have been living the life you will be once the "submissive" decision has been made. It should already be existing even if it hasn't been put into words and outlined.

Just because people aren't holding their submission to a man they want to be with hostage, doesn't mean that the D/s isn't a big deal to them. For many its a need rather than a want as you are describing and because of the need -- they don't have the luxury of analyzing and evaluating to see if they can provide their gift to the person. Its something many find they can't hold back.



It seems to me you are using your submission as a tool rather than existing in your submission.

(in reply to Greta75)
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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 7:27:36 PM   
UllrsIshtar


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Submission isn't a gift, because it cannot be given to somebody who doesn't inspire it.

Submissives couldn't manage to submit to somebody who doesn't have an ounce of dominance in their body. When somebody lacks all dominant traits, and is a spineless weakling, a submissive couldn't 'gift' them with the submission. They might ACT submissive by their choosing (for whatever reason) for a while. And might try to force themselves to feel submissive (if for whatever reason they wanted to submit to this non-dominant). But in the end it wouldn't stick.
They wouldn't feel submissive.
It would feel like a role they were playing.
It would feel fake, and hollow, and empty.

Because submissive isn't something you 'have', that you can choose to 'gift' away to any person of your choosing.

Submissive is something that you can be inspired to BE. Something you can be inspired to feel. Something you can be inspired to experience.

By somebody else.

And in order to provoke those feeling in you... it's essential the other person is actual dominant.
Without their dominance, the 'gift' of submission wouldn't even exist, seeing that it would never be inspired into existence.

Submission isn't a gift, because you cannot gift away something you don't have. And submission isn't something you have, it's something you are... after you've been inspired to be it.

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 10/3/2016 7:28:16 PM >


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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 8:55:35 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

after you've been inspired to be it.

Maybe for you

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/3/2016 11:07:22 PM   
Charles6682


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From: Saint Pete,FL
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No, submission isn't a gift. I use to believe that "feel good" motto. It simply is who someone is. I don't see it as a gift anymore. Maybe a more of a curse. Ok, its not a curse but its not a gift either. It just is what it is.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/4/2016 1:11:50 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Wow. The average femsub is *so* different to the average malesub, isn't she? In all the time I've been using CS, I've barely ever seen anyone give the remotest toss about the gentler and more sensitive feelings of malesubs. Such a different world, ain't it?

Ummmm... That is not entirely correct.



No, it's not. Comment retracted.

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/4/2016 3:47:45 AM   
Bhruic


Posts: 985
Joined: 4/11/2012
From: Toronto, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

Submission isn't a gift, because it cannot be given to somebody who doesn't inspire it.

Submissives couldn't manage to submit to somebody who doesn't have an ounce of dominance in their body. When somebody lacks all dominant traits, and is a spineless weakling, a submissive couldn't 'gift' them with the submission. They might ACT submissive by their choosing (for whatever reason) for a while. And might try to force themselves to feel submissive (if for whatever reason they wanted to submit to this non-dominant). But in the end it wouldn't stick.
They wouldn't feel submissive.
It would feel like a role they were playing.
It would feel fake, and hollow, and empty.

Because submissive isn't something you 'have', that you can choose to 'gift' away to any person of your choosing.

Submissive is something that you can be inspired to BE. Something you can be inspired to feel. Something you can be inspired to experience.

By somebody else.

And in order to provoke those feeling in you... it's essential the other person is actual dominant.
Without their dominance, the 'gift' of submission wouldn't even exist, seeing that it would never be inspired into existence.

Submission isn't a gift, because you cannot gift away something you don't have. And submission isn't something you have, it's something you are... after you've been inspired to be it.


There is a logical fallacy there. Submissive may be something that you are... but not everyone who is submissive desires to be dominated.

If you are submissive, and you give yourself over to the control of another, then you are, indeed, giving something... yourself.

And when you give something you value to someone else, who wants it, THAT is a gift.

The same is true for the Dominant. Both parties exchange the gift of themselves to the other.

Some submissives express dissatisfaction with their Dominants, which seems to me to support the idea that quality Domination is as much a gift as quality submission.

And as an aside... Submission CAN, indeed, be given to those who don't inspire it. People give hopeful gifts to the unworthy all the time. If this were not true, every D/s relationship would be perfect, and forums would be unnecessary.

< Message edited by Bhruic -- 10/4/2016 3:54:14 AM >


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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/4/2016 11:04:14 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
No, it's not. Comment retracted.

Please don't take it back. I think it's a cool way to make a point.

(I might be hitting serious thread drift here, but I think it's good.)

Let's say, hypothetically that you have a friend, Dominant woman A. You've known Dominant woman A for several years. Since she's your friend, the two of you talk about things that happen in life and things that interest you.

Over the course of your friendship, Dominant woman A dissolves power dynamic B. Like normal friends do, you check up on Dominant woman A to see how she's doing. Dominant woman A tells you she is doing fine, happier now that the other person is out of her life, etc, etc. "Oh, that's good," you say. "I'm glad you are doing well about it. How are other things going?"

Same Dominant woman A enters the next arrangement in power dynamic C. Again, like friends do, you check up on Dominant woman A to see how she's doing. This time, Dominant woman A tells you THIS SUCKS. I'm emotionally upset. Other person is pretty torn up, too. I'm having his (local) friends make sure he's got support. He and I still talk daily because we both feel like crap, etc, etc. "Oh, I'm sorry," you say. "Do you want to vent a bit?"

Which is kind of the point. Both situations are PE, but they don't mean the same thing. She looked at the two situations in a completely different light. The so-called 'gift of submission' wasn't a factor.


PS. Personal note. Less than three weeks to Walking Dead!



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 100
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