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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/4/2016 2:29:07 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
No, it's not. Comment retracted.

quote:

Please don't take it back. I think it's a cool way to make a point.

In light of what you say now - I won't retract it, then. ;)

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/4/2016 3:53:11 PM

ohthat1percent

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18 days if you want to get specific lol. I just posted the same idea to my facebook lol. I'm just afraid it is going to be anti climatic but I lurb me some Jeffrey dean Morgan. /TWD tangent

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/4/2016 5:35:32 PM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

Submission isn't a gift, because it cannot be given to somebody who doesn't inspire it.

Submissives couldn't manage to submit to somebody who doesn't have an ounce of dominance in their body. When somebody lacks all dominant traits, and is a spineless weakling, a submissive couldn't 'gift' them with the submission. They might ACT submissive by their choosing (for whatever reason) for a while. And might try to force themselves to feel submissive (if for whatever reason they wanted to submit to this non-dominant). But in the end it wouldn't stick.
They wouldn't feel submissive.
It would feel like a role they were playing.
It would feel fake, and hollow, and empty.

Because submissive isn't something you 'have', that you can choose to 'gift' away to any person of your choosing.

Submissive is something that you can be inspired to BE. Something you can be inspired to feel. Something you can be inspired to experience.

By somebody else.

And in order to provoke those feeling in you... it's essential the other person is actual dominant.
Without their dominance, the 'gift' of submission wouldn't even exist, seeing that it would never be inspired into existence.

Submission isn't a gift, because you cannot gift away something you don't have. And submission isn't something you have, it's something you are... after you've been inspired to be it.

Ishtar always seems to find a way to express my thoughts better than I could have.

For ME, the women that talk about their submission being a gift just scream high maintenance and not really submissive at all. But more "I'll give you this present but in return you have to be, do, act.....as my idea of a one true dominant." In my experience they have a very set agenda and it's usually more about finding someone to serve their kink.

I don't care of that type of woman is another dominant person's ideal. They are not mine. To ME, their mindset is not a submissive one. When I see relationships like that, I have to smile and think something like "that woman has got that guy/woman by a very sneaky ring through the nose"

Now don't get me wrong, if it works for them, yay. But it's not going to be concept I am going to tolerate in my world. If a woman is going to submit to me, it's going to be on my terms. They are going to have to be interested in the dynamic that suites me. They won't be gifting me with their submission, they will be serving me and submitting as I determine. On the flip side, the woman, and dominant person that I am, is going to have to suit them as well.

Like any other relationship, any person that generically fits the ideal, isn't going to be 'the one'. Some sort of wonderful chemistry has to happen to make it work.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/4/2016 6:14:30 PM

ohthat1percent

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I think you hit on a very interesting point -- "more about finding someone to serve their kink." their kink = submission or acting submissive.

Ironically, yes I know I am on a BDSM site, but I have never thought about D/s as kink. So seeing someone suggest it in terms of being a kink, was interesting. I really don't get the whole kink thing - I mean don't get me wrong, I understand what they are -- I just don't get why things are seen as kink instead of just normal lol.

Just to clarify, D/s simply is what it is and its life -- for me, how some men and women exist in a relationship or how some people exist in a relationship. Its not abnormal or kinky or whatever other non-average adjective people apply to it. It incorporates a life of control and controlled.

But thinking of it in terms of being a kink -- yeah, I can see where it being a gift can come into play. It will be interesting viewing discussions and responses of people with this new way of seeing submission or someone speaking about being a submissive. Serving their kink. That is a really interesting view.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/4/2016 6:24:54 PM

tamaka

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ohthat1percent

I think you hit on a very interesting point -- "more about finding someone to serve their kink." their kink = submission or acting submissive.

Ironically, yes I know I am on a BDSM site, but I have never thought about D/s as kink. So seeing someone suggest it in terms of being a kink, was interesting. I really don't get the whole kink thing - I mean don't get me wrong, I understand what they are -- I just don't get why things are seen as kink instead of just normal lol.

Just to clarify, D/s simply is what it is and its life -- for me, how some men and women exist in a relationship or how some people exist in a relationship. Its not abnormal or kinky or whatever other non-average adjective people apply to it. It incorporates a life of control and controlled.

But thinking of it in terms of being a kink -- yeah, I can see where it being a gift can come into play. It will be interesting viewing discussions and responses of people with this new way of seeing submission or someone speaking about being a submissive. Serving their kink. That is a really interesting view.

I feel the same as you regarding this. You can actually have a very vanilla relationship and be D/s. You can also engage in various activities as part of a D/s relationship that aren't vanilla, but for me i don't think of it as kink... i view it as normal activities in my relationship.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/4/2016 6:42:44 PM

ohthat1percent

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see I don't even use vanilla. To me, D/s is life for many relationships and it isn't any different than what others deem an average relationship. The personalities are deemed kinky and that completely flabbergasts me lol

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/4/2016 8:51:23 PM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ohthat1percent

I think you hit on a very interesting point -- "more about finding someone to serve their kink." their kink = submission or acting submissive.

Ironically, yes I know I am on a BDSM site, but I have never thought about D/s as kink. So seeing someone suggest it in terms of being a kink, was interesting. I really don't get the whole kink thing - I mean don't get me wrong, I understand what they are -- I just don't get why things are seen as kink instead of just normal lol.

Just to clarify, D/s simply is what it is and its life -- for me, how some men and women exist in a relationship or how some people exist in a relationship. Its not abnormal or kinky or whatever other non-average adjective people apply to it. It incorporates a life of control and controlled.

But thinking of it in terms of being a kink -- yeah, I can see where it being a gift can come into play. It will be interesting viewing discussions and responses of people with this new way of seeing submission or someone speaking about being a submissive. Serving their kink. That is a really interesting view.

It's how you process kink. I knew I was into bdsm since a child. Since I had memories. I had barbies tied upside down naked, and whipped, and I already had all the full imagination of things in bdsm that I enjoy.

So to me, my kinks are like being gay. I didn't choose them. They are there when I was born. And they will be there for life. It's not a passing fancy. It's a part of me. I have never changed, my preferences, what I love. Has been exactly the same since I was 5 yr old, since I had memories.

In terms of a traditional relationship, where a man is the leader, and I am his support system. Again, I grew up and was taught equality. The real world teaches you as a woman to be independent, be your own woman, take charge, basically, alot of things I feel inside contradicts what the world is promoting for woman these days. But I was groomed to be that strong independent woman. As that is the world I grew up in. My own mother is the breadwinner of my family. She makes twice as much money as my dad, still cooks, does everything, like seriously...., she is super woman, in terms of her capabilities, my dad does absolutely nothing, she takes care of everything, like the man in the house. Except for her mothering skills, she might be the embodiment of what's expected of a modern woman these days. To just be incredible and capable of everything and anything that a man seriously becomes irrelevant in her life, except if she wants sex. So I still call it kink, because it's not what is in today's times and world and the direction the world is moving towards, normal at all.

But whether vanilla or BDSM, I prefer to be with someone who sees me as a gift. I want to be with a man, whom I see him as a precious gift to me! Because, I want to be with someone who I will treasure. And not be with someone I would take for granted.

If I don't think someone's friendship to me, or someone's love for me is a precious gift. Then clearly in my opinion, I probably don't care about this person.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 10/4/2016 9:00:00 PM >

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/4/2016 9:00:07 PM

ohthat1percent

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There is a difference between seeing you as a gift and seeing your submission as a gift.

People take people for granted. If you are with someone long enough- you will take them for granted. It doesn't mean you don't treasure them. Its pretty much trusting them and that they will be there. That what is done regularly- you'll expect and take it for granted. It's how you deal with the taking for granted that matters. If your an ass and don't show appreciation for someone then it's negative if you do then it's not.

< Message edited by ohthat1percent -- 10/4/2016 9:01:14 PM >

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/4/2016 9:01:15 PM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ohthat1percent

There is a difference between seeing you as a gift and seeing your submission as a gift.

There is no difference between me and my submission. We are one.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/4/2016 9:05:36 PM

ohthat1percent

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As you say- you pick and choose where to apply your submission. So it's a part of you- yes but the very aspect that you give it or not means it's not all of you - hence they are not one in the same. Otherwise when you don't Give it - then what you aren't you?

Didn't you give you in your non bdsm relationships? But you didn't give your submission- so you never were part of the relationship? You obviously gave part of yourself and held a part of yourself. So again they are not one in the same. Your submission is part if you - it's not you in and of yourself.

< Message edited by ohthat1percent -- 10/4/2016 9:07:37 PM >

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/4/2016 9:24:15 PM

Greta75

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Submission and love, are gifts. Submission is love to me. And I do view love as a gift.
So in vanilla relationships, no submission, but the gift is love.
In bdsm, you show love through your submission.

And another person was using this example like, "People should not have to feel grateful for receiving submission."

I think I should feel grateful for receiving love. And I do feel grateful, when someone extends his genuine love and care to me.

So I feel the same about submission. Because I couldn't submit to anybody I do not love. It's impossible.

And in vanilla relationships, the only reason there is no submission, is that, because the man you are inlove with does not want your submission. He is not into that. He may even want you to be the decision maker. Whatever in that situation is. It is a gift he does not want.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 10/4/2016 9:30:15 PM >

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/5/2016 3:17:33 AM

Bhruic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: ohthat1percent

There is a difference between seeing you as a gift and seeing your submission as a gift.

There is no difference between me and my submission. We are one.

I agree. Giving your submission is giving yourself... ergo, placing an extreme value on your submission is placing an extreme value on yourself.

I think that is why some people react a bit negatively to the idea that submission is a gift of extreme value, that the recipient has an obligation to cherish. That may be true between a particular submissive and their particular Dominant, and probably should be... but in general, people consider it up to them to judge the value of something.

After all... some Dominants, desirous of a submissive, may not be interested in you... for them, the value of submission, and the value of you are two different things.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/5/2016 5:13:07 AM

Greatlilbabygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ohthat1percent

As you say- you pick and choose where to apply your submission. So it's a part of you- yes but the very aspect that you give it or not means it's not all of you - hence they are not one in the same. Otherwise when you don't Give it - then what you aren't you?

Didn't you give you in your non bdsm relationships? But you didn't give your submission- so you never were part of the relationship? You obviously gave part of yourself and held a part of yourself. So again they are not one in the same. Your submission is part if you - it's not you in and of yourself.

I don't think you are understanding her correctly. Why would you or her or anyone just submit without assessing the situation first? Do you submit to everyone?

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/5/2016 6:25:02 AM

ohthat1percent

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i understand her fine, I don't agree with her rationale that her submission is some supreme gift to someone. Who said anything about not assessing a situation? And who said anything about submitting to everyone? Good grief its not that complex or dramatic.

Natural reactions are not something you gift to people because if you are honest with yourself - you can't control your natural reactions such as submissive, love, hate, etc. You do control whether or not you allow a person to see what has occurred as a natural reaction in you.

He doesn't wait for you to gift him with your submission, he -- if he understands the natural connection of D/s with a woman he is interested in -- Man and woman can be interchanged for whatever your preference - if provided knowledge of same by you.

Now before you start crying but non-consent -- non-consent. Its not that deep and its more simply complex. That is why I am saying you and your submission is not one in the same because there are different factors involved in the whole. People want to make submission a thinking thing when in reality its not, its a natural reaction thing a reaction within you. You either have it or you don't.

A submissive can choose to keep it a secret from the dominant who has caused that reaction or the submissive can let him see it has occurred and let him determine how its going to be expressed. When the latter occurs, a submissive isn't gifting the dominant with anything -- you are simply providing him knowledge of what IS occurring. You either are submissive to someone or you aren't.

UllrsIshtar explained it better than I ever could -- A person can't gift a natural reaction to something. grins, a submissive can see your natural reaction as a gift from a dominant, because it does feel good, even if it may be terrifying. Another natural reaction -- do you gift a dominant with terror that the submissive feels?

Think of it like fear -- when you feel fear -- do you gift the thing causing the fear because you acknowledge or show same?

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/5/2016 6:39:06 AM

Alecta

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
in vanilla relationships, the only reason there is no submission, is that, because the man you are inlove with does not want your submission.

This is just not true. In vanilla relationships (I would replace "man" with person", for gender neutrality), people submit to one another all the time. They voluntarily submit (give in and put up with) to each other and serve (take care of) each other all the time.
The difference from a D/s relationship is that they don't call it submission, if they talk about it at all, and the power dynamic(who submits to whom) is organically achieved rather than pre-negotiated and has the potential to change from moment to moment.
And when the person you love doesn't want your submission, it's because they want your Dominance.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/5/2016 10:44:21 AM

Greatlilbabygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
in vanilla relationships, the only reason there is no submission, is that, because the man you are inlove with does not want your submission.

This is just not true. In vanilla relationships (I would replace "man" with person", for gender neutrality), people submit to one another all the time. They voluntarily submit (give in and put up with) to each other and serve (take care of) each other all the time.
The difference from a D/s relationship is that they don't call it submission, if they talk about it at all, and the power dynamic(who submits to whom) is organically achieved rather than pre-negotiated and has the potential to change from moment to moment.
And when the person you love doesn't want your submission, it's because they want your Dominance.

Now I'm throughly confused.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/5/2016 11:39:05 AM

Alecta

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

That in vanilla relationships, the submission happens in little scattered pieces instead of an organised negotiated structure.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/5/2016 11:40:43 AM

Greatlilbabygirl

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I guess, for some that's true. It's more give and take for hubs and me, though his friends all joke I wear the pants and other such quips. I don't see it, he can put his foot down and made decisions outside the bedroom as well as I can.

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/5/2016 11:48:10 AM

Alecta

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl
It's more give and take

You submit to his demands for you to sexually dominate him.
He submits to your demands to have a Dom outside the marriage.
He submits to your leadershi (dominance) in some things, you submit to his on others. And when he doesn't want you to just give in to what he wants, that's because he wants you to decide instead.
Don't you see?

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RE: Is submission really a 'gift' ? - 10/5/2016 11:49:32 AM

Greatlilbabygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl
It's more give and take

You submit to his demands for you to sexually dominate him.
He submits to your demands to have a Dom outside the marriage.
He submits to your leadershi (dominance) in some things, you submit to his on others. And when he doesn't want you to just give in to what he wants, that's because he wants you to decide instead.
Don't you see?