Do you think "trust" is overrated

Do you think "trust" is overrated (Full Version)

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ohthat1percent -> Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/3/2016 5:33:47 PM)
HA, bet that caught your eye. I am more than likely going to mess up explaining this but we'll see where it goes. Do you think that the aspect of Trust in "all this" with regard to relationships has become on some level for many detrimental to their actually entering into a D/s offline relationship? Do you think that the "fear" concept of harm and the like many times have people overthinking the concept of trust? I am not saying there shouldn't be trust or that it doesn't matter, but in reading a lot of message boards, trust seems to be something people claim they need but can't really ever find enough of it to do what they claim they want to do Is trust over analyzed for many? Is it being used as an excuse for some people to hold D/s relationship out of their reality. HAs BDSM applied the "fear" concept to well and pretty much has scared people out of trusting themselves to make the right decision? Do you think some people have created the expectation of what is deemed trust so high that it is unreachable for them? Is trust the hammer people use to crash their potential relationships because they are too scare to take the leap into the relationship they claim they want. okay, let's see if this makes sense t anyone lol. If you believe people may be using trust as a detriment to their finding their relationship -- what advise would you give them to help them cross the trust hurdle where they common sense with it but don't create an obstacle with trust to reaching their relationship goals? EDITED TO ADD -- This is relationship based -- not play based question. Also to add, as trust is an ongoing growth in a relationship -- do you believe people negatively utilize the aspect of all or nothing with regard to trust too harshly instead of acknowledging its a growth and ongoing concept?

Greatlilbabygirl -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/3/2016 5:59:09 PM)
No, trust can never be over emphasized if certain types of play are involved. If you are dealing with physical restraint and if you don't trust them, you are an idiot if you give them permission to gag, bind, blindfold, etc you. Trust is paramount.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/3/2016 6:00:44 PM)
quote: Do you think that the aspect of Trust in "all this" with regard to relationships has become on some level for many detrimental to their actually entering into a D/s offline relationship? No, perhaps for a small number, but not for "mmy" quote: Do you think that the "fear" concept of harm and the like many times have people overthinking the concept of trust? Nope. quote: I am not saying there shouldn't be trust or that it doesn't matter, but in reading a lot of message boards, trust seems to be something people claim they need but can't really ever find enough of it to do what they claim they want to do I don't see that. quote: Is trust over analyzed for many? Nope. quote: Is it being used as an excuse for some people to hold D/s relationship out of their reality. I'm sure it has for a few. quote: HAs BDSM applied the "fear" concept to well and pretty much has scared people out of trusting themselves to make the right decision? Nope, not that I see. quote: Do you think some people have created the expectation of what is deemed trust so high that it is unreachable for them? Yup, there are some people that do anything imaginable. quote: Is trust the hammer people use to crash their potential relationships because they are too scare to take the leap into the relationship they claim they want. Not that I have noticed.

littleclip -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/3/2016 6:02:11 PM)
trust is the very basis of any relationship the more you trust the less you fear. for example when i first started playing with my former owner there were alot of unknowns and limits. as we progressed and learned to trust each other more new play was tried and limits surpassed. my biggest one was of needles, being a nurse all needle sticks were bad. at domcon there was some acupuncture needles. they have a solid shaft and very small diameter so with those i got past my limit of needles and now i love needle play. so as trust and experience builds the relationship grows.

OsideGirl -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/3/2016 6:06:17 PM)
I think some may use that "trust" as a reason to not jump in. (The may have trust issues) But, the majority of people that I've talked to over the years, it was more the fear of doing it actually makes me ______. They're afraid of people finding out, they're afraid that it's the entirety of a relationship, they're afraid that it makes them a bad person, they're afraid that it means they're sick, etc. So, yeah, while you need to trust your partner (from both sides of the kneel) - I think the actual reason the majority of those that don't do it is because of fear of "environmental red tapes", not fear of trust.

bamabbwsub -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/3/2016 6:20:47 PM)
quote: Do you think that the aspect of Trust in "all this" with regard to relationships has become on some level for many detrimental to their actually entering into a D/s offline relationship? If I interpreted your question correctly, then my answer is "no." My experience has been that people online expect trust too quickly. I'm a sub, and if I'm interested in a potential Dom, I'm not going to send him nude shots, nor will I let him tie me up the first time we meet. Why? I don't know him (ergo, I don't trust him) enough to do so. Because of this, I've been accused many times of not being "real." To those people, I say, "My safety is more important than your opinion." If you wouldn't want your daughter/sister/niece/whoever to do those things, then why would you expect me to?

LadyPact -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/3/2016 6:31:02 PM)
I thought you did pretty good. [:)] While I think I get what you are trying to convey, my problem is that I've seen too much of both sides of it. In ways, I sometimes wish people would think more about trust. I know you said D/s specifically, but I also think of this from the top/bottom angle. I've walked into plenty of kink clubs where, just because I happen to have boobs and a toy bag, you'd be amazed how many people automatically trust me on those two factors alone. Heck, I had one guy in a major city just because he saw me at the kink club, thought it would be a great idea if I would tie him up and engage in knife play. He ended up thanking me profusely at the end when I explained to him just exactly what I could do to him if he were placing his trust in the wrong person (me) and he realized the huge error he was making. From the relationship aspect, I hope folks have trust as one of their criteria whether they are doing vanilla or D/s. However, I think the fact of the matter is that most people are aware that not everybody is going to get it right. Nobody ever wants to think their current or former partner would do horrible thing X and yet, that's exactly what happens. Yet, what is the first thing they say? It's not actual horrible thing X. It's "I never thought that Person A would DO horrible thing X". (Check out things like people who get convicted for sexual assault. They aren't all single.) Do I think this holds people back? Not really a whole lot. I don't necessarily think people stay permanently single due to paranoia or fear. Sure, after they've experienced Person A doing horrible thing X, they might become more cautious with the next partner but it's not especially a formulated science. It's a good, thought provoking question. ETA - OK, I wrote my response before you added the edit. I think I'm going to keep my response the way it is, even including my opinions about play. quote: ORIGINAL: ohthat1percent EDITED TO ADD -- This is relationship based -- not play based question. Also to add, as trust is an ongoing growth in a relationship -- do you believe people negatively utilize the aspect of all or nothing with regard to trust too harshly instead of acknowledging its a growth and ongoing concept? When I started dating Engie, I put it on the table on our second date that a) one of the things he would have to think about before entering a relationship with me is the fact that I had a stalker for the better part of three years and b) this was going to be a factor in a slower trust element being formed. (I hadn't really had to do this with tk, because my stalker had saved me the trouble of showing 90% of the kink community where we lived just how much of a lunatic that he was and displayed just how crazy he was by directly emailing tk, himself.) On our third date, I went to the restaurant armed with a hundred and twenty printed documents of third party accounts to show just how bad it had become. Everything from confirmation from my husband's boss, to the statement from the post Chaplain where I used to live, my phone records, the person's own admission on his journals that he was following me in public, mailing me stuff (snail mail) to my house, and more stuff than you probably want to hear about. When I gave those to him, I told him right up front "this" is why you're not going to get my trust right away. It's also why you are going to get sick to death of me speaking out against consent violators, stalkers, harassers, outers, and pretty much the people I think are the scum buckets who happen to be in our kink communities. He said he could hack it and we've been dating ever since.

MariaB -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/4/2016 2:35:26 AM)
I meet overly expectant people every day, especially within my working environment. You know them for five minutes and they reveal their life story without stopping to check just how much they are revealing to you about their personal life. They just presume without even knowing me that their information is safe in my hands… in anyone’s hands. These are the same types who approach you in a club and ask if you will put needles in their body or to tie them up on a first date. There’s nothing wrong with expectations but we should never presume we can trust someone until we know with absolute certainty that we can and the only way we can do that is to keep our ears and eyes open.

LilJuly76 -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/4/2016 3:08:59 AM)
oh I gotta say yes people trust online way too quickly. I'm an old fashioned submissive. I have a list to weed people out. After I weed "Dominants" that contact me out, if I was looking online, talk talk talk even before I attempt to meet up with them. And than if and when I make the decision to meet up with them, no play until I get to know them more to make sure everything is legit and we are compatible. The only way I would tweak it is if someone was recommended to me by someone that the Dominant and myself know.

Bhruic -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/4/2016 4:05:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ohthat1percent If you believe people may be using trust as a detriment to their finding their relationship -- what advise would you give them to help them cross the trust hurdle where they common sense with it but don't create an obstacle with trust to reaching their relationship goals? I think some people use trust issues, and over analyze trust, as a smoke screen to hide their insecurity, low self esteem, and lack of courage for life and relationships. The most common form of this, in my opinion, is people who require others to "earn" their trust, and make them feel 100% secure before they are willing to make any move forward. They don't realize, or accept, that no one is 100% secure, and that trust is an informed leap of faith. Something that you GIVE to another, and that requires courage. Trust can be given, and it can be validated, or not, and it can be taken away... but no one can ever earn the trust of someone who is afraid to give it.

Greta75 -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/4/2016 4:44:36 AM)
I am not strong enough to survive rape, brutality and real abuse. This is BDSM. There are real predators who are genuinely doing this not for kink, but because they enjoy causing harm and hurting people and they are hiding in this community, because people seem to be doing the same things, except for others it's consensual. For them, they love the genuine non-consensual. So yes, I will admit that I am too weak to handle ever being raped or brutalised. Trust is important, feeling safe with someone is important. Some subs actually have experienced being raped and brutalised throughout their journey by hooking up with real predators. And they were strong enough to emerge as survivors and continue to keep trusting and take the risk. I am not that kind of woman. If something like that happened to me. I know I will end my life. So I am just protecting my own emotional health. Remember recently there was an Italian lady who commited suicide because her nude pictures or nude videos were scattered all over the internet? Totally possible situation in BDSM if a dominant takes your nudes while you are tied up and in total humiliating positions and spread it all over the internet. I would have done what she has done. Not everybody is mentally strong to handle such things.

LilJuly76 -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/4/2016 5:00:21 AM)
I was raped and I'm a survivor, it had nothing to do with BDSM in fact this happened way before I even knew what BDSM was, but I'm still alive and I survived and what happened to me I use that to make sure I'm in a good place with a Dominant in BDSM. Totally possible situation in BDSM if a dominant takes your nudes while you are tied up and in total humiliating positions and spread it all over the internet. um I wouldn't call that a Dominant of any kind, a good Dominant wouldn't put you in a bad predicament and take nude pictures of you and than post them online. That I would call a predator/abuser/user/blackmailer but no Dominant.

ohthat1percent -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/4/2016 5:59:55 PM)
Interesting responses. I am formulating my position but appreciate the responses. I had hoped it would start a discussion as people think about what trust actually means and means to them and whether it could become an obstacle to their or peoples goals.

Greta75 -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/4/2016 7:58:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LilJuly76 um I wouldn't call that a Dominant of any kind, a good Dominant wouldn't put you in a bad predicament and take nude pictures of you and than post them online. That I would call a predator/abuser/user/blackmailer but no Dominant. My point is, in the bdsm world. There is a real element of danger that is not as prevalent as in the vanilla world. To disregard it, is probably the same as, walking alone into the most dangerous neighbourhood at night alone, at 3am or something. Personally for me, my near raped incident definitely was from someone from this website. And he was deported. Police got involve. Whereas in my entire life playing around in casual vanilla sex, I never felt like I had to worry for my life, because I tend to choose very basic vanilla folks. I am happy with a simple man who is just all about missionary too. I feel safe with someone like that. As he doesn't have the creativity to try anything else. A man who only enjoys boring predictable sex, definitely feels very safe to me. It's dominant sadists who tells me stuffs like they have nailed woman's tits on the floor, and show me actual videos of themselves whipping a naked woman till she's bloodied up and seem to be, looks non-consensual and crying and begging for him to stop, that fucking scares the fuck out of me. I also hate it when guys show me naked pictures or videos of them playing bdsm things with other women, because I often wonder if the woman in those pictures or videos are consensual or not. And it doesn't help that I still seem to have been getting more crazies contacting me, than regular sane normal guys, who seem to be sane, in this site, or just the direction of their thoughts. Or how they form their conclusions. In the vanilla casual world, I always meet sane people who appear to be rational. Of course there are crazies too, but there are alot more sane regular people. And in this bdsm world. Many men call themselves dominant. But it takes awhile to get to know them before you can find out if they were genuine dominants, or genuine abusers. Some may not be so apparent upfront. My near rape dated me without sex for 7 months to earn my trust. We did normal things, movies, dinners. No sex or bdsm involve. All was setting me up for a genuine real non-consensual gang rape scene and probably alot of pain involve. End of the day, I learn that I need to trust my own intuition. He was flawless and was so nice. I felt like something is not quite right, but I couldn't tell why something was niggling at me. So as to OP asking, especially for woman, how do they relate to trust? I say, it's all intangible intuition. Just trust your sixth sense. I was in full bdsm play with my x-dom within 48 hours of talking to him. With full bondage, gags and blindfolds, and whipping involve. My intuition told me, I can trust this man with my life. He made me feel safe. And my intuition was right. I can always trust him with my life. Also, I reckon that if I am still questioning if I will be safe wtih someone after knowing him for 1 or 2 years and still on the fence about dabbling with him. I need to trust the gut that something is not right.

ohthat1percent -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/4/2016 8:13:13 PM)
Yet these same people exist outside the bdsm realm more so. And as you said- people are less "aware" or "recognizing" of it and D.V, Etc than people are within the bdsm realm. Women get date raped on an astronomical rate . I'm not trying to diminish your experience but I don't believe "bad stuff" happens more in the bdsm realm than it does outside of same. I think the community is just smaller but more concentrated so it seems like "more" happens when the ratio really is a lot less in the bdsm communities because they are policed so to speak by the members. As for the sadists- just because something looks no consensual doesn't mean it is and I get your fear but you are really disrespecting the very nature of consenuality and the people who are hardcore but consensual by implying that they are doing something wrong and need to be feared because you think something looks nonconsensual. If you aren't into S/m or extreme s/m why are you letting people who are show you videos? The begging to stop concept is why people have safe words in scenes- they can beg for it to stop but they only stop if someone safewords. I hope you reported your attempted rape to the police and are seeking counseling. In the end- stay away from dominant sadists it's really that simple.

Greta75 -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/4/2016 8:17:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ohthat1percent but I don't believe "bad stuff" happens more in the bdsm realm than it does outside of same. I think the community is just smaller but more concentrated so it seems like "more" happens when the ratio really is a lot less in the bdsm communities because they are policed so to speak by the members. Maybe you are talking about local munches and stuffs. But I am talking about online, and this person may be into bdsm but not involve in the local scene. So there is no community to red flag this person. quote: As for the sadists- just because something looks no consensual doesn't mean it is and I get your fear but you are really disrespecting the very nature of consenuality and the people who are hardcore but consensual by implying that they are doing something wrong and need to be feared because you think something looks nonconsensual. If you aren't into S/m or extreme s/m why are you letting people who are show you videos? The begging to stop concept is why people have safe words in scenes- they can beg for it to stop but they only stop if someone safewords. In this specific dominant sadist, he told me he does not believe in safe words. I wanted to see those videos because I want to understand what he is into and how extreme he could get. I was getting to know him. And his bdsm spectrum. These are all important information for me to consider. And there are quite a few dominants that don't believe in safe words too. Whether they are good dominants or bad dominants. You don't know. You just gotta go with your gut. There are also subs who don't want safe words. I mean I know rape occurs in vanilla too. Hell, your uncle could rape you. Your own father could rape you. Shit like this happen. But I feel like that, in bdsm, because of the sadistic elements. The rape could be more terrible than just normal rape. As it's not just penetrative sex they want. They want to torture you endlessly. So I'm just saying, if you feel you can't trust someone. That's your gut telling you, something is wrong. Trust it.

Greta75 -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/4/2016 8:20:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ohthat1percent I hope you reported your attempted rape to the police and are seeking counseling. In the end- stay away from dominant sadists it's really that simple. As I said, police got involved. He was a Brit, not a local, and he got deported. As he lost his job for his behaviour, and also without a job, your permit is cancelled, you can't remain in this country.

ohthat1percent -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/4/2016 8:25:00 PM)
I missed that. That's great! To bad he didn't get jail time. I hope the solution helps you in your recovery.

Greta75 -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/4/2016 8:30:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ohthat1percent I missed that. That's great! To bad he didn't get jail time. I hope the solution helps you in your recovery. Because the actual rape didn't happen and I was unharmed. I dodged a bullet.

YourSincereSlave -> RE: Do you think "trust" is overrated (10/4/2016 11:19:03 PM)
I don't think you can "overrate" trust, but at some point you have to make a choice whether you trust someone or not, and that might be where people hesitate. In other words, it's not about the importance of trust, it's about the individual(s).

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