quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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ORIGINAL: Chaska

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: BamaD

Maybe the army should take over law enforcement, would that make you happy.


Another graduate of the university of dumb ass pukes shit out of his mouth once again.
How can you be this phoquing ignorant? How is it that you do not know that the military cannot be used for civil law enforcement without a declaration of martial law?
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

please tell us who the stupid one is here:

the one who uses obvious sarcasm in an attempt to either make a point, or take a jab at the other person in the conversation.

or the person who completely misses that the point was sarcastic and acts as if it was a serious consideration? and to make it even worse (that is, more stupid), assumes that the poster doesn't know something that he has actually demonstrated knowledge of in the past here on the forums.

in other words, again, look in the mirror and apply your favorite saying.

Can we get the poster who claimed "The average amount of training to become a police office is 19 to 21 weeks lets say 3 months, while to become a certified auto mechanic it is 51 weeks rounded equals 2 years." into that as an honorable mention?

I stand respectfully corrected,insomnia can make one daft There is still more training for a mechanic.

So, they are two different jobs with totally different skill sets. Of course the amount of time to learn them is going to be different. Doesn't prove jack.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Chaska
ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Apparently you think you are the know it all when it comes to police work and have all the answers, which is utterly absurd.


But he was a sgt in the air farce and an mp in the national fraud and he has only had one of his guns taken away from by a mugger who also took his lunch money???that must count for something???



You're so blind you can't see your one sided bias when it comes to discussing this subject. As far as interacting with people, you overlooked I mention dealing with human beings is more complex, also conveniently overlook the vast difference in training time of an auto mechanic compared to a police officer.

Well there is the fact that an honest mechanic will make about three to four times what an honest cop (sorry for the contradiction in terms) would make.


That could account for why he lives in fear, carry's a gun and is so bias.

Honesty aside. The average salary for an auto mechanic was $39,980 in 2014, which is higher than what many comparable workers earn. For instance, landscapers and groundskeepers rake in $26,720 annually. With yearly earnings of $38,390, maintenance and repair workers also make less than auto techs. Fabricators and security guards also earn less, with annual salaries of $28,730 and $28,040, respectively. Patrol officers, however, out earn mechanics, claiming an average salary of $59,560 in 2014.

Of course, in two years that may have changed somewhat and vary by source and location. This

If we disregard the "shade tree" and "fly by night" mechanics and deal with the places where "real" mechanics work we find that shop labor in an agency garage is in the $150@hr range. If perchance you work in a high end shop like mercedes,bmw porsche etc. you can expect to see the shop rate double. The mechanic typically has a 60/40 relationship with the agency getting the 60%. That puts the mechanic at the $60@hr which is @$120k per year range. Every operation performed is listed in the "flat rate manual" which list the time alloted for each operation. The job is charged by the flat rate manual multiplied by the hourly rate. Any good mechanic can typically beat the "book" by 50%-100% which allow him/her to clock 60-80 hours in a 40 hour week. The only exception would be factory recalls in which the factory will have their best mechanics do a specific job over and over until they have shaved the time down to the absolute minimum and that is the time the line mechanic has to work to. If a mechanic manages to piss off the service writer all they will get is recall work and thus be limited to 40 billable hours a week.
For the individual who strikes out on their own and opens up their own shop they of course get the full shop ratre minus thier overhead.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

So sorry, I had thought it was one of those foriegners who made that post
I was a German who claim over 2 years training for those cops.
Lets see you have to be forgiven for being tired and making stupid math statement but you claim I am stupid because when you backed up the German I associated it with her post? Looks to me like to are still being irrational.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

So sorry, I had thought it was one of those foriegners who made that post
I was a German who claim over 2 years training for those cops.
Lets see you have to be forgiven for being tired and making stupid math statement but you claim I am stupid because when you backed up the German I associated it with her post? Looks to me like to are still being irrational.

From your standard of English in this your post I could only guess you are only certain of 2 things namely that any foreigners should not post about anything any way but you consider yourself the peak of wisdom worldwide.

That aside: I posted above (long ago) you should get proper information; obviously you didn't. So here it is:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polizeiausbildung_in_Deutschland

Since it is in German only I 'll tell you where to look for the duration of police training. At the end of about the first third of the article you 'll find a grid "Regelungen beim Bund und bei den Ländern" (Regulations for federal and country police forces) and in the second column right with the header "Ausbildungsdauer in Monaten" (Duration of training in months; indeed months, not weeks or days ...) you 'll find figures ranging between 24 and 45 ...

I feel confident you should be able to do that.

Figures are different for various countries of Germany, as well as for Austria, Switzerland, and other EU countries but that range is the standard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Nnanji
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: BamaD


I use full powered hornady critical defense.
And when I shoot at twenty paces, an etreme range for a gunfight, I don't miss.

Not a good enough shot to use fmj[8|]
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.


I hate to get into this because it's a stupid OP and a stupid debate, but, I'd like to point out its phoquing stupid to take FMJ or TMJ to any place but the range.

I took .45 fmj to cuba,columbia,viet nam,cambodia,laos and a few other places. No one I ever shot with it ever got up to tell me that it was only for use at the range.

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ORIGINAL: Chaska

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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

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ORIGINAL: Chaska

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Chaska

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Chaska

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: blnymph

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: blnymph

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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
...
Shoot them in the leg my ass, no gun training ever teaches that.

T^T

Obviously not where you are.

That is one of the differences between some countries with short term training periods of a handful of weeks and other countries with minimum training of 2-3 years for police forces.

Effective use of weapons without killing as well as de-escalation of potentially dangerous situations requires brains and long training.

2-3 YEARS to train a cop? Where does the money come from?
Pay a man for three year to not help on the streets?
I find that hard to believe.
How long do they have to sign up for?
Friends of mine tell stories of seeing people being beaten to a pulp for saying agreesive threatening things like what when dealing with German cops.

The money is well paid for training cops that are able to do a proper job. It is a job for lifetime possibly so the money is well invested. They get trained in units called Bereitschaftspolizei which during training periods are used to support regular police units at sports events, demonstrations asf. and regular police units at intervals. It is not a matter of "belief" - get informed.

I guess your "friends" with bad manners did not stop at saying aggressive threatening things ...

Our cops train from the day they join up till they retire.

What you're saying is, you see no benefit in extensive training for police officers and that on the job training is the best and only option.
Would you let someone work on your car with minimal training as an auto mechanic, that is expected to learn primarily on the job?
The average amount of training to become a police office is 19 to 21 weeks lets say 3 months, while to become a certified auto mechanic it is 51 weeks rounded equals 2 years. So it takes 8 times more training to be an auto mechanic than to be a police officer. Are cars more important and of greater value than human beings? Not to mention dealing with human beings is a more complicated issue.

No, I said that the 4 months traning before going on duty is hardly the end of their training.
When possible they ride with another cop for a year or so. This means they have constant supervision over that period of time.
To follow your example it isn't as if a novice mechanic is let loose on your car, it is as if he works under the guidence of a master mechanic.

Incorrect, you had not mention anything about the length of training in this thread until now. You did make the unsubstantiated claim they train until they retire. Until you can back that up with facts it stands as on the job training other than the initial 3 months training. Which leads to yet another question "if" they are supervised, how much training does the supervisor have? As far as auto mechanic trainees being supervised its in a class room environment not the auto repair shop that hires certified mechanics to do the actual work, you also failed
to answer questions asked.

Niether did anyone else so that is just blowing hot air.
You don't know much about police work do you?
Most police work is interacting with people.
Not only is that hard to teach in the classroom(the student knows nothing there it real) but you don't see how they react untill they are in the field.
I have known people who said and did all the right things in the class but when they got into the field they were afraid every minute they are out there or push to hard.
They ride with proven, experienced officers with good records.
These officers have, of course, gone through the academy. They have served several years without problems, and have done well in the periodic traing ugrades trough thier service.
Yes ojt is part of thier training but police work is the sort of thing were OJT is the only test that matters.

So you admit to not saying anything about training as I stated? Yes, someone did mention training of 2 to 3 years in other country's read the quote from "binymph" ^ and your comment to it, (speaking of blowing hot air). Apparently you think you are the know it all when it comes to police work and have all the answers, which is utterly absurd. You're so blind you can't see your one sided bias when it comes to discussing this subject. As far as interacting with people, you overlooked I mention dealing with human beings is more complex, also conveniently overlook the vast difference in training time of an auto mechanic compared to a police officer.

Why is to hard to teach in a class room sitting and why not have additional field training exercises ( not necessarily with the general public) as well? Nobody can predict how they will react in all situations, although more training can be helpful. If a police officer is
afraid or can't handle the pressure of the job than he/she has no business being one. You have shown no proof that a trainee officer rides with a supervisor or does so for any specific time frame or any training the supervisor has or to train. Your word is not sufficient or even creditable based on your post history. You apparently advocate turning novice police loose for the bulk of their "on the job training" as their testing grounds on the general populous.

At the end of the day you miss the point that extensive training for police officers would not only benefit the populous, the system, but the police as well.

TO (Training Officer) is a slot on every police force that is, generally, a competitive position based on Time in Grade, class room testing and experience in the field. Pretty much all police departments send people to be trained at places like the FBI academy whose training is then deciminated into the field. Those American training academies generally take people from all over the world and are the source for training in many European countries.

Thanks, that's all I wanted was to answer my question. Next, the time spent with the TO (Training Officer) vary's by location, wouldn't be advantageous to have a standard time frame across the board?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: BamaD

Maybe the army should take over law enforcement, would that make you happy.


Another graduate of the university of dumb ass pukes shit out of his mouth once again.
How can you be this phoquing ignorant? How is it that you do not know that the military cannot be used for civil law enforcement without a declaration of martial law?
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

please tell us who the stupid one is here:

the one who uses obvious sarcasm in an attempt to either make a point, or take a jab at the other person in the conversation.

or the person who completely misses that the point was sarcastic and acts as if it was a serious consideration? and to make it even worse (that is, more stupid), assumes that the poster doesn't know something that he has actually demonstrated knowledge of in the past here on the forums.

in other words, again, look in the mirror and apply your favorite saying.

Can we get the poster who claimed "The average amount of training to become a police office is 19 to 21 weeks lets say 3 months, while to become a certified auto mechanic it is 51 weeks rounded equals 2 years." into that as an honorable mention?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaska

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Obviously, you think making excuses is the best solution , not to try and consider other alternatives. Like more education and training that would be beneficial to all concerned. Go ahead, keep your head in the sand and see how that works out.


It would be nice if you had actually read and understood what I said.
OJT is just one part of the training.
There is the academy.
There are inhouse training sessions.
The are as pointed out FBI classes, afterwhich the attendes go back to their departments and share any new information.
There are constant evaluations.
And there is OJT, or mentoring of younger officers by the more experienced offices.

We have already covered the academy and OJT. Are you saying all police officers also attend the FBI academy?
How well is the current system working? From all accounts its not working very well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: BamaD

Maybe the army should take over law enforcement, would that make you happy.


Another graduate of the university of dumb ass pukes shit out of his mouth once again.
How can you be this phoquing ignorant? How is it that you do not know that the military cannot be used for civil law enforcement without a declaration of martial law?
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

please tell us who the stupid one is here:

the one who uses obvious sarcasm in an attempt to either make a point, or take a jab at the other person in the conversation.

or the person who completely misses that the point was sarcastic and acts as if it was a serious consideration? and to make it even worse (that is, more stupid), assumes that the poster doesn't know something that he has actually demonstrated knowledge of in the past here on the forums.

in other words, again, look in the mirror and apply your favorite saying.

Can we get the poster who claimed "The average amount of training to become a police office is 19 to 21 weeks lets say 3 months, while to become a certified auto mechanic it is 51 weeks rounded equals 2 years." into that as an honorable mention?

Even after a comment on that, the poster didn't pick the idiocy up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaska

What I said was he told me to get a permit, and to start carrying.

And you were an obedient boy.

I have been shooting for about 55 years.

Who cares.

Tell be something, do you consider it wise to ignore the advise of people with more expertese in a subject than you have?

Being told what to do is not the same as advised.

If not why to you accuse me of being wrong for doing exactly that?
Again you are wrong.

You need to be told what to do because you can't think on your own.

I have told you what is being done.

No. You keep making excuses.

If you read carefully you will see that at no point have I told you the current situation is perfect.

No. You keep making excuses.

I look at more than you do.

Really. [8|]

I see that cities and counties have to do the best they can with the resourses they have availiable.

Are they? Or are they incompetent at managing money?

Cops sharing the information an officer gets at an FBI school is not as good as sending every officer to the school

No shit Sherlock. [8|]

51 week school is great, if you can afford it.
If you can't you teach all you can in 21 weeks.

Another excuse.

Then you pair the new cop with an experienced one so he can learn everything he can from that source.

The blind leading the blind.


When did I say we had a perfect system, I didn't.

When have you said anything about improvements?

I did try to explain to you that it is far better than a quicky course

19 weeks isn't a quick course.[8|]

You don't want to see where we are and make sugestions for improvement.

I see where we are you're blind. More education is a suggestion.

You sure don't want to pay any attention to finacial reality, you demand utopia now.

Financial responsibility is reality. You're mind is utopia.

Anyone who doesn't agree with you is unwilling to try to change or improve in any way.

I could care less if anyone agrees with me. You are unwilling to try to change or improve in any way.

Do you use your seat belt?

Who the fuck cares?

Isn't that because you have been told you are safer?

I don't follow orders.

Does that mean that you live in constant fear of an accident

I don't live in constant fear, unlike you.

Does that mean that you aren't a grown man able to make your own decisions or that you have been told by experts that it is safer and heeded their advise?

Grown men make their own decisions and don't need to be told what to do.

You never said you didn't believe what the media tells you about cops you said I was stupid for believing everything I was told.

You need to learn how to comprehend. Believing everything you're told is stupid.