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Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/4/2016 9:15:37 PM   
Greta75


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"So you've got this crazy system where all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care and then the people who are out there busting it, sometimes 60 hours a week, wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world," Clinton said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/04/politics/bill-clinton-obamacare-craziest-thing/index.html

Preach Bill! Glad a Dem can admit the truth!

But is he trying to jeopardize his wife's campaign since she is pro-Obamacare.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 10/4/2016 9:16:40 PM >
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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/4/2016 10:09:50 PM   
DaddySatyr


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Only a complete dunderhead (especially, at this point) wouldn't criticize Obummercare.



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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/4/2016 10:25:32 PM   
bamabbwsub


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I wonder if he said that to try to show that Hillary won't be an extension of the Obama presidency, especially for middle class voters who seem to have been hit the hardest with premium increases.

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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/4/2016 11:15:43 PM   
JVoV


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Fun soundbite, with absolutely no context to it at all. Somehow I doubt that was the entire transcript from his speech.

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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/4/2016 11:20:48 PM   
JVoV


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"The current system works fine if you’re eligible for Medicaid, if you’re a lower-income working person, if you’re already on Medicare, or if you get enough subsidies on a modest income that you can afford your health care.

But the people that are getting killed in this deal are small businesspeople and individuals who make just a little too much to get any of these subsidies.

So you’ve got this crazy system where all of a sudden, 25 million more people have health care and then the people that are out there busting it ― sometimes 60 hours a week ― wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It’s the craziest thing in the world."

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_57f3bceae4b0d0e1a9a9b334

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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/4/2016 11:34:42 PM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bamabbwsub
I wonder if he said that to try to show that Hillary won't be an extension of the Obama presidency, especially for middle class voters who seem to have been hit the hardest with premium increases.

If there's a reason for the comment besides making Hillary look better than Obama, my guess is they're laying the groundwork for another run at single payer. Remember the line from the movie The Hunt For Red October..."Russians don't take a dump without a plan, son". Well, the Clinton's are exactly the same. They're the most premeditated SOBs I've ever seen.

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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/4/2016 11:41:22 PM   
Lucylastic


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From CNn
Washington (CNN)Bill Clinton criticized President Barack Obama's signature policy reform Monday while on the stump for his wife, Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton, calling Obamacare "the craziest thing in the world." But he attempted to temper his criticism at a Tuesday rally.

Speaking at a Democratic rally in Flint, Michigan, the former president ripped into the Affordable Care Act (ACA) for flooding the health care insurance market and causing premiums to rise for middle-class Americans who do not qualify for subsidies.
"So you've got this crazy system where all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care and then the people who are out there busting it, sometimes 60 hours a week, wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world," Clinton said.
On Tuesday, he tried to clean up his criticism.
"Look, the Affordable Health Care Act did a world of good, and the 50-something efforts to repeal it that the Republicans have staged were a terrible mistake," Clinton said at a rally in Athens, Ohio. "We, for the first time in our history, at least are providing insurance to more than 90% of our people."
"But there is a group of people -- mostly small business owners and employees -- who make just a little too much money to qualify for Medicaid expansion or for the tax incentives who can't get affordable health insurance premiums in a lot of places. And the reason is they're not in big pools," Clinton said. "So they have no bargaining power."
Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump said Tuesday he bet Clinton "went through hell last night" with his wife, then added: "Honestly, there have been many nights when he's gone through hell with Hillary."
Bill Clinton, whose efforts with his wife to overhaul health care in the 1990s were stymied by a recalcitrant Congress and the insurance lobby, told the crowd the insurance model "doesn't make sense" and "doesn't work here."

Touting his wife's proposal to allow people without access to subsidies to buy into Medicare and Medicaid, he also acknowledged that market-based solutions would not solve the country's problems with insurance costs and coverage.
"On the other hand, the current system works fine if you're eligible for Medicaid, if you're a lower-income working person; if you're already on Medicare, or if you get enough subsidies on a modest income that you can afford your health care," Clinton said. "But the people that are getting killed in this deal are small business people and individuals who make just a little too much to get any of these subsidies."
Post debate, Clinton takes the lead
Angel Urena, Clinton's press secretary, defended the former president's stance on Obamacare on Tuesday, saying he had consistently supported the legislation since it was enacted in 2010.
"President Clinton spoke about the importance of the ACA and the good it has done to expand coverage for millions of Americans. And while he was slightly short-handed, it's clear to everyone, including President Obama, that improvements are needed," Urena said in a statement.
The White House said again Tuesday there were changes they would like to see made to the ACA.
"President Obama has of course acknowledged that with cooperation from Democrats and Republicans in Congress, there are some things that could be done to further strengthen the law. That's something that Sec. Clinton has vowed to pursue if she is elected President of the United States," press secretary Josh Earnest said in a briefing.
But he insisted Obamacare remains a top accomplishment of the president's tenure.
"The Affordable Care Act continues to be a source of pride for people who work here in the administration in terms of that significant legislative accomplishment. That's essentially our position," Earnest said. "You'd have to talk to President Clinton about exactly what message he was trying to send."
When asked whether the former president went too far in his criticism against the ACA, Earnest responded he's "not sure what argument (Clinton) was making."
And when asked if he wished Clinton hadn't used "crazy" or "craziest" to describe Obamacare, Earnest said, "Of course."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/04/politics/bill-clinton-obamacare-craziest-thing/

Oh, the Video is there too....
Single payer...the only way forward.been saying it for over a decade...

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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/5/2016 5:15:20 AM   
Termyn8or


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FR

You want single payer ? Then do it right. It gets paid for by an increase in income tax, and gasoline taxes. Nobody pays anything anymore, no deductible no prescription costs, nothing. In fact you don't even have to show ID when going to the doctor but it behooves you to give them the right name so they have the right medical history.

Side effects ? Cheaper car insurance. You no longer have to pay $6,000 for a broken arm. No more workman's comp, it is all paid for.

What's more it will impel the government to not allow the sale of poison foods and drugs. While there are still tort laws and wrongful death will be actionable, these things kill slowly. This shit they allow sold here makes people fat, gives them diabetes, heart attacks and strokes, and these things don't always kill. That means continuous care for life which costs money. So they will have an economic incentive to close the revolving door between the food and drug industries and regulatory agencies like the FDA and USDA.

I am not really for alot of regulation but someone has to do it. Do something about these big companies poisoning everyone. so I am against regulation, but let's take a hypothetical example from the old west. A guy rides into town selling some sort of snake oil. Tells some little old Lady that it will cure her rheumatism. She drinks some and drops dead. Well in a case like that I think it is perfectly appropriate for the sheriff to arrest the guy, at least for negligent homicide. His only defense would be to drink the shit himself and then claim that she was allergic too some ingredient in there and he had no way of knowing it. But today, supposedly drugs sold go under extensive testing. Well then how come all the class action lawsuits ?

Anyway, I too wonder about his intent with that statement. Is he is trying to distance himself from her that is a mistake because she is more disliked than he. And someone said they don't do things without a plan ? I would tend to agree.

And where did this 90 % come from ? About 20 million have gained coverage and I bet most of them could not get insurance because of a pre-existing condition. And actually diabetics could get coverage before but there were exclusions for glandular conditions etc., it pretty much amounted to injury insurance.

The system was broken. Now, the ACA is like putting sawdust in the the rear end of a car to quiet the gear noise to mask the fact that it is very worn out. The act of an unscrupulous used car dealer. That's the ACA.

T^T

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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/5/2016 7:20:44 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
You want single payer ? Then do it right.

Something we over here have been saying all along.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
It gets paid for by an increase in income tax,

Really??
What's your income tax in the US? 30-35%??
Ours is 20% - after you've earned the first £11,000 (which is tax free).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
and gasoline taxes.

Can't argue that one.
But there again, those taxes go towards paying for the upkeep of our roads.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Nobody pays anything anymore, no deductible no prescription costs, nothing.

We do have comparable prescription costs to the US.
But, the only people that actually pay these charges are those that are in full time employment and earning more than £11,000pa.
For an awful lot of people (OAP's, under 18's, those on benefits etc) there is no charge at all - the meds are issued free of charge.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
In fact you don't even have to show ID when going to the doctor but it behooves you to give them the right name so they have the right medical history.

You have to provide ID when you register with a doctor for the first time.
After that, your records follow you around whenever you change location and register to a new doctor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Side effects ? Cheaper car insurance.

Dunno about that.
Pretty much all insurance companies are out to make big profits.
Whether that's car insurance, health insurance, house insurance etc.
Doesn't seem to make any difference what insurance it is - they are all for profit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
You no longer have to pay $6,000 for a broken arm. No more workman's comp, it is all paid for.

Yep. That's pretty much what socialized healthcare is all about.
But we still have compensation claims - just not to the same extortionate level as in the US.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
What's more it will impel the government to not allow the sale of poison foods and drugs.

Yep.
There are an awful lot of foods (particularly GM crops and certain additives etc) that are not allowed in our food chain which are commonplace in the US.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
While there are still tort laws and wrongful death will be actionable, these things kill slowly. This shit they allow sold here makes people fat, gives them diabetes, heart attacks and strokes, and these things don't always kill. That means continuous care for life which costs money. So they will have an economic incentive to close the revolving door between the food and drug industries and regulatory agencies like the FDA and USDA.

I am not really for alot of regulation but someone has to do it. Do something about these big companies poisoning everyone. so I am against regulation, but let's take a hypothetical example from the old west. A guy rides into town selling some sort of snake oil. Tells some little old Lady that it will cure her rheumatism. She drinks some and drops dead. Well in a case like that I think it is perfectly appropriate for the sheriff to arrest the guy, at least for negligent homicide. His only defense would be to drink the shit himself and then claim that she was allergic too some ingredient in there and he had no way of knowing it. But today, supposedly drugs sold go under extensive testing. Well then how come all the class action lawsuits ?

Because they aren't tested for long enough on a big enough sample of people.
We learnt our lesson (I hope) with the thalidomide cases here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Anyway, I too wonder about his intent with that statement. Is he is trying to distance himself from her that is a mistake because she is more disliked than he. And someone said they don't do things without a plan ? I would tend to agree.

And where did this 90 % come from ? About 20 million have gained coverage and I bet most of them could not get insurance because of a pre-existing condition. And actually diabetics could get coverage before but there were exclusions for glandular conditions etc., it pretty much amounted to injury insurance.

And that's why social healthcare is infinitely better than private insurance-based systems.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
The system was broken. Now, the ACA is like putting sawdust in the the rear end of a car to quiet the gear noise to mask the fact that it is very worn out. The act of an unscrupulous used car dealer. That's the ACA.

T^T

Yep. Said that all along.
From memory, the original ACA was very much like social healthcare.
By the time the Repubs diluted it down with an additional 11,000+ pages of waffle, you ended up with something virtually unworkable and a farce.


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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/5/2016 2:48:54 PM   
MercTech


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Meh, three times in my lifetime a Democratic initiative has bulled through a measure to provide "health care reform". Each time, the health care reform ended up costing the taxpayers more money and cut the amount of health care affordable to the working stiff.

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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/5/2016 3:07:22 PM   
Edwird


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The Republicans shooting down everything that might have benefited society at all having nothing to do with it, of course. Just like they did with financial reform.

BTW, you're welcome the list of Dem healthcare initiatives that actually got passed into law before 'Obama care.'

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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/5/2016 3:10:23 PM   
MasterBrentC


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copied from freedomdwarf,

Yep. Said that all along.
From memory, the original ACA was very much like social healthcare.
By the time the Repubs diluted it down with an additional 11,000+ pages of waffle, you ended up with something virtually unworkable and a farce.

You forget what really happened. Let me refresh your memory.

The Democrats rammed this through on Christmas eve without a single Republican vote in favor. The Democrats didn't allow for ANY amendments to be added. There was very little debate. The failure that you call the "Affordable Health care Act" is all the responsibility of the Democrats. Don't blame the Republicans for your sides fuck up.

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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/5/2016 3:37:13 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

If there's a reason for the comment besides making Hillary look better than Obama, my guess is they're laying the groundwork for another run at single payer.


Holy crap!

Can't have that!

Next thing you know, US citizens would be paying 1/3 or more less for healthcare than what was paid even before Obamacare.

Our entire national structure would be dissolved in a day if paying actual cost of goods or services plus naturally defined value-added market price in this country.

Oligarchy, which absolutely defines the US economically and politically, would have none of it, any more than the mega-conglomerate media would even tell us about it in the first place.

Trump is a frickwhat wimp, TBH.

I'm writing in Kim Kardashian for prez. (even though I still don't know who the frick she is)

If people can't see that TMZ is the best third party option in the US, then ....



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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/5/2016 3:55:07 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

copied from freedomdwarf,

Yep. Said that all along.
From memory, the original ACA was very much like social healthcare.
By the time the Repubs diluted it down with an additional 11,000+ pages of waffle, you ended up with something virtually unworkable and a farce.

You forget what really happened. Let me refresh your memory.

The Democrats rammed this through on Christmas eve without a single Republican vote in favor. The Democrats didn't allow for ANY amendments to be added. There was very little debate.



Yes, just like Phil Gramm presented his Commodity Futures Modernization Act to an empty congress who were on vacation at the time. And the last dibbs for the banks in the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act after congress was away.

Eight-nine yeas later, and more than 12 million jobs eliminated later, and billions of home equity destroyed later, and 12 schools in my area alone shuttled later, ...

Republican mantra has done nothing but make every effort to destroy the middle class,

Not to say that the 'modern' Democrats themselves have done much any better in that regard.






< Message edited by Edwird -- 10/5/2016 3:58:19 PM >

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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/5/2016 6:54:39 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

The Republicans shooting down everything that might have benefited society at all having nothing to do with it, of course. Just like they did with financial reform.

BTW, you're welcome the list of Dem healthcare initiatives that actually got passed into law before 'Obama care.'


Well the ACA is modeled after what Romney did in Massachusetts. those people got fucked up the ass. Note he did not even carry his home state.

T^T

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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/6/2016 4:20:11 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
"So you've got this crazy system where all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care and then the people who are out there busting it, sometimes 60 hours a week, wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world," Clinton said.
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/04/politics/bill-clinton-obamacare-craziest-thing/index.html
Preach Bill! Glad a Dem can admit the truth!
But is he trying to jeopardize his wife's campaign since she is pro-Obamacare.


As much as I don't think Obamacare is Constitutional, I don't think Clinton was using 'crazy' or 'craziest' in as negative a light as is being painted.

For instance, we might say, "I was running around like crazy." It doesn't mean we were running around like we were insane. It means we were extremely busy and it was chaotic. Anyone who looks at Obamacare and proclaims it to not be chaotic is lying their ass off.


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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/6/2016 5:00:08 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
You want single payer ? Then do it right.

Something we over here have been saying all along.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
It gets paid for by an increase in income tax,

Really??
What's your income tax in the US? 30-35%??
Ours is 20% - after you've earned the first £11,000 (which is tax free).


You're assuming that costs will drop once we adopt single payer. No one has been able to show proof that single payer will drop costs. No one has shown that costs have dropped in a country where they went from not universal care to universal care. Claiming that your costs today are proof of the savings is disingenuous. All that you can actually show is that costs have risen slower than in the US. So, the only thing that you can claim now, is that by moving to a Universal care model, US Health care costs will rise slower than if we don't.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/us-health-spending-breaks-from-the-pack/
[Link is from 2009]




quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Nobody pays anything anymore, no deductible no prescription costs, nothing.

We do have comparable prescription costs to the US.
But, the only people that actually pay these charges are those that are in full time employment and earning more than £11,000pa.
For an awful lot of people (OAP's, under 18's, those on benefits etc) there is no charge at all - the meds are issued free of charge.


I believe Termy was saying if the US changed over, nobody should have to pay anything out of pocket. The bit about the ID wasn't that it would never be required, but that it was only required to make sure your health history traveled with you. It wouldn't be required to get care, but it definitely could be lifesaving if you have some sort of allergy to certain medications.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/6/2016 5:09:00 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC
copied from freedomdwarf,
Yep. Said that all along.
From memory, the original ACA was very much like social healthcare.
By the time the Repubs diluted it down with an additional 11,000+ pages of waffle, you ended up with something virtually unworkable and a farce.
You forget what really happened. Let me refresh your memory.
The Democrats rammed this through on Christmas eve without a single Republican vote in favor. The Democrats didn't allow for ANY amendments to be added. There was very little debate.

Yes, just like Phil Gramm presented his Commodity Futures Modernization Act to an empty congress who were on vacation at the time. And the last dibbs for the banks in the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act after congress was away.
Eight-nine yeas later, and more than 12 million jobs eliminated later, and billions of home equity destroyed later, and 12 schools in my area alone shuttled later, ...
Republican mantra has done nothing but make every effort to destroy the middle class,
Not to say that the 'modern' Democrats themselves have done much any better in that regard.


Billions of home equity destroyed?!? That's billions of home equity that was artificially inflated in the first place (brought to you by your friends in The Fed since at least 1987 (Greenspan))!

The busts (of boom/bust cycles) suck, but are necessary. It's really the booms that should be feared. No booms, no busts. It's not rocket surgery.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/6/2016 5:20:26 PM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The busts (of boom/bust cycles) suck, but are necessary.

Necessary? No. Inevitable? Yes.

_____________________________

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"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/6/2016 6:22:06 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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FR
Really, what the fuck did you expect when you let the health insurance lobbyists write the law?

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