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RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/8/2016 3:21:15 PM   
WickedsDesire


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I am led to believe only one man has reality on here and not women has mailed me

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/8/2016 4:36:12 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Some idiotic simplistic and overreaching proclamation about "limited government" as one of your apparently core values doesn't exactly convey 'context' in that proclamation, does it?


Actually, it's your interpretation of my core value that is idiotic and simplistic. So, rather than consider there may be more than one interpretation, you attempt to bash me with whatever one works best (or the only one you can think of).

A big key to context, isn't just the specific words used, but other words around them. Thus, a "Conservative interpretation of the Constitution" just might lend a little context to what's meant by "Limited Government," no?


Whether my interpretation was correct or not, it's probably not the best that I singled you out for it.

It's just that I get aggravated by the fact that the first people to complain about the government 'not doing its job' almost always seem to be from the "less government!" crowd.

As for government reports on the financial crisis, I might or might not have read the one you did. I've read so many articles and reports and books about it that between that and my uni classes I had to start using reading glasses. In any case, I don't recall from any of it that the Fed interest rates had any more than a minor contributory role.

Here's the Senate report that I did read;

http://www.hsgac.senate.gov//imo/media/doc/Financial_Crisis/FinancialCrisisReport.pdf?attempt=2

I skimmed through it again just now, didn't see anything about the Fed.

There was this, though;

In the mid 1990s, the United States initiated substantial changes to the banking industry, some of which relaxed the rules under which banks operated, while others imposed new regulations, and still others encouraged increased risk-taking. In 1994, for the first time, Congress explicitly authorized interstate banking, which allowed federally-chartered banks to open branches nationwide more easily than before. In 1999, Congress repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which had generally required banks, investment banks, securities firms, and insurance companies to operate separately, and instead allowed them to openly merge operations. The same law also eliminated the Glass-Steagall prohibition on banks engaging in proprietary trading and exempted investment bank holding companies from direct federal regulation.

In 2000, Congress enacted the Commodity Futures Modernization Act which barred federal regulation of swaps and the trillion-dollar swap markets, and which allowed U.S. banks, broker-dealers, and other financial institutions to develop, market, and trade these unregulated financial products, including credit default swaps, foreign currency swaps, interest rate swaps, energy swaps, total return swaps, and more.

[Emphasis above is mine.]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Even though blame certainly should fall mostly on the financial industry itself and their actions, every responsible account of the financial crisis I've come across points to massive and irresponsible deregulation as the prime mover. Nothing -of this magnitude- could have happened under the prior existing regulatory regime.

There were what heretofore regarded as 'financial disasters' that happened in the old days, no question. The S&L crisis (after the deregulation of thrifts), Continental Illinois, the Boesky-Milken-Drexel Burnham Lambert scandal, the Long-Term Capital Management fiasco, etc.

None of them affected home equity or jobs beyond their purview.




< Message edited by Edwird -- 10/8/2016 4:37:39 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/8/2016 5:33:46 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Some idiotic simplistic and overreaching proclamation about "limited government" as one of your apparently core values doesn't exactly convey 'context' in that proclamation, does it?

Actually, it's your interpretation of my core value that is idiotic and simplistic. So, rather than consider there may be more than one interpretation, you attempt to bash me with whatever one works best (or the only one you can think of).
A big key to context, isn't just the specific words used, but other words around them. Thus, a "Conservative interpretation of the Constitution" just might lend a little context to what's meant by "Limited Government," no?

Whether my interpretation was correct or not, it's probably not the best that I singled you out for it.
It's just that I get aggravated by the fact that the first people to complain about the government 'not doing its job' almost always seem to be from the "less government!" crowd.


There is a difference between "less government" and "limited government." The size of a limited government is whatever size it takes to effectively exercise it's duties and authorities in the most efficient manner possible. A "limited government" in my usage, is one that is limited in powers and authorities; as set forth by a conservative interpretation of the Constitution.

quote:

As for government reports on the financial crisis, I might or might not have read the one you did. I've read so many articles and reports and books about it that between that and my uni classes I had to start using reading glasses. In any case, I don't recall from any of it that the Fed interest rates had any more than a minor contributory role.
Here's the Senate report that I did read;
http://www.hsgac.senate.gov//imo/media/doc/Financial_Crisis/FinancialCrisisReport.pdf?attempt=2
I skimmed through it again just now, didn't see anything about the Fed.
There was this, though;
In the mid 1990s, the United States initiated substantial changes to the banking industry, some of which relaxed the rules under which banks operated, while others imposed new regulations, and still others encouraged increased risk-taking. In 1994, for the first time, Congress explicitly authorized interstate banking, which allowed federally-chartered banks to open branches nationwide more easily than before. In 1999, Congress repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which had generally required banks, investment banks, securities firms, and insurance companies to operate separately, and instead allowed them to openly merge operations. The same law also eliminated the Glass-Steagall prohibition on banks engaging in proprietary trading and exempted investment bank holding companies from direct federal regulation.
In 2000, Congress enacted the Commodity Futures Modernization Act which barred federal regulation of swaps and the trillion-dollar swap markets, and which allowed U.S. banks, broker-dealers, and other financial institutions to develop, market, and trade these unregulated financial products, including credit default swaps, foreign currency swaps, interest rate swaps, energy swaps, total return swaps, and more.
[Emphasis above is mine.]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even though blame certainly should fall mostly on the financial industry itself and their actions, every responsible account of the financial crisis I've come across points to massive and irresponsible deregulation as the prime mover. Nothing -of this magnitude- could have happened under the prior existing regulatory regime.
There were what heretofore regarded as 'financial disasters' that happened in the old days, no question. The S&L crisis (after the deregulation of thrifts), Continental Illinois, the Boesky-Milken-Drexel Burnham Lambert scandal, the Long-Term Capital Management fiasco, etc.
None of them affected home equity or jobs beyond their purview.


Nope, not the one that I read. I read the one from the FCIC.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GPO-FCIC/pdf/GPO-FCIC.pdf
    quote:

  • We conclude this financial crisis was avoidable. The crisis was the result of human action and inaction, not of Mother Nature or computer models gone haywire. The captains of finance and the public stewards of our financial system ignored warnings and failed to question, understand, and manage evolving risks within a system essential to the well-being of the American public. Theirs was a big miss, not a stumble.
    ...
    The prime example is the Federal Reserve’s pivotal failure to stem the flow of toxic mortgages, which it could have done by setting prudent mortgage-lending standards. The Federal Reserve was the one entity empowered to do so and it did not. The
    record of our examination is replete with evidence of other failures: financial institutions made, bought, and sold mortgage securities they never examined, did not care to examine, or knew to be defective; firms depended on tens of billions of dollars of borrowing that had to be renewed each and every night, secured by subprime mortgage securities; and major firms and investors blindly relied on credit rating agencies as their arbiters of risk. What else could one expect on a highway where there were neither speed limits nor neatly painted lines?


It goes on to also blame lending Wall Street, citizens, Fannie/Freddie, etc.

As far as the S&L crisis goes, government had a major hand in that one, too. By first capping the amount of interest the S&L's could offer on savings while limiting their loans to fixed rate mortgages, when interest rates started to rise above the rate they could offer, they lost their ability to get new savers. Congress lifted the cap, and also allowed them to offer more services, while also raising the amount covered by the FDIC. This S&L's an opportunity to "outgrow" their issues. However, it also opened up the opportunity for them to game the system (and Wall Street didn't shy away from taking part). For instance, when they increased FDIC coverage from $40k to $100k, that allowed for riskier lending, more risky lending, or more and riskier lending.

Congress tried to make changes, but every change, pretty much, made things worse. At the very beginning and core of the crisis, was the cap on savings account interest S&L's could offer.

http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2929&context=flr

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/8/2016 7:15:22 PM   
Edwird


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The "Levin-Coburn Report" I referred to above was much more comprehensive, more professionally done, and certainly less partisan than the FCIC report. No wonder I (and many others) scanned the former and tossed it aside.

So if the Fed had sole responsibility for the structure and and lending standards of all loans in the US, according to you and the FCIC, we can surmise from this that the former Office of Thrift Supervision, the FDIC, the former FSLIC, HUD, VHA, etc. , the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, etc. just sat around and twiddled their thumbs all these decades, everybody hoping for the best regarding loan standards from the Fed.

But here is the crux of the argument from the de-reg corner, and it's a classic:

"The prime example is the Federal Reserve’s pivotal failure to stem the flow of toxic mortgages, which it could have done by setting prudent mortgage-lending standards. The Federal Reserve was the one entity empowered to do so."

Right. So apparently, the bank CEOs, the loan officers, the mortgage brokers, etc. had no power whatsoever themselves to set mortgage lending standards. Not Countrywide, not WaMu, nobody. Powerless, all, in having any say at all over lending standards.

If anyone wants a better demonstration of a non-housetrained industry and their sycophant apologists bitching and moaning about the government not getting a diaper on them in time, it would be hard to surpass this example.






< Message edited by Edwird -- 10/8/2016 7:44:31 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/8/2016 9:07:05 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
But here is the crux of the argument from the de-reg corner, and it's a classic:
"The prime example is the Federal Reserve’s pivotal failure to stem the flow of toxic mortgages, which it could have done by setting prudent mortgage-lending standards. The Federal Reserve was the one entity empowered to do so."
Right. So apparently, the bank CEOs, the loan officers, the mortgage brokers, etc. had no power whatsoever themselves to set mortgage lending standards. Not Countrywide, not WaMu, nobody. Powerless, all, in having any say at all over lending standards.
If anyone wants a better demonstration of a non-housetrained industry and their sycophant apologists bitching and moaning about the government not getting a diaper on them in time, it would be hard to surpass this example.


The FCIC report was partisan?!?I suppose it could have been, but, Reid and Pelosi each chose 3 members, and McConnell and Boehner each chose 2, so, if anything, it would have been partisan towards the left.

Wall Street was blamed, too. The ratings agencies were also blamed. Lenders were blamed. Those who signed the loans were blamed.

Why are you so resistant to the idea that The Fed (and other regulators) are to blame (at least in part)?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/8/2016 9:46:41 PM   
Edwird


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The only thing I was 'resistant' to was your claim that the Fed was the 'primary responsible party' in the whole affair, especially the fatuous notion that the Fed was sole proprietor over any and all lending standards.

If you read even the introduction to the FCIC report you would have seen that the report itself was 'voted' upon, and as it turned out, strictly to party line as for/against the report and its conclusions.

I'm not the least 'resistant' to the fact that regulators had some good bit to do with it, because that was the inevitable and predictable consequence of all the deregulation and Laissez-faire instigated by Reagan and carried forward by Bush, Clinton, and the adjoining congresses. Not the easiest thing trying to do a job with hands tied behind the back by congress. Not to mention that the most ridiculous aspects of the episode were enabled by congressionally mandated non-regulation of the most financially dangerous elements.

All fine and well to blame the regulators. Hard to blame the congressionally mandated non-existent regulators, though, n'est–ce pas?








< Message edited by Edwird -- 10/8/2016 9:50:02 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/8/2016 10:18:23 PM   
Edwird


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While at it, those proclaiming that the private sector is 'more efficient' apparently aren't paying attention, have never been in a higher position than 'supervisor,' and more likely living in fantasy world of purpose-suited ideology.

And those spewing 'free market' crap understand little about Milton Friedman, and zilch about Adam Smith.



< Message edited by Edwird -- 10/8/2016 10:20:09 PM >

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/8/2016 11:42:14 PM   
Lordandmaster


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If you seriously believe that Europe could defend itself without NATO (which means the USAF), there's really no further discussion to be had. It's an uncomfortable fact, but pretending that it's not a fact isn't better than facing the uncomfortable fact.

There is plenty to read about Putin's geopolitical vision, if you'd care to educate yourself instead of constantly challenging everyone else to produce "evidence." If it weren't for NATO, the Baltic nations (and possibly even Poland) would be toast by now. It's one of many reasons why Putin has been salivating at the prospect of a Trump presidency. It might be his best opportunity to recreate the Soviet Empire.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

If it weren't for NATO, he wouldn't have stopped at Crimea.

What evidence do you have that would indicate that?


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/9/2016 2:37:06 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


I might have overstated things with the "even before Obamacare" part (though likely not by much), but the rest stands, whether you can grasp or not.

What is it about reducing costs in the future by whatever amount do you not understand? That would be presented in any publication as "How to reduce costs by 1/3", for example.

Yes, I claimed that costs would eventually go down 1/3 vs, staying on the system at present.

I didn't say that costs would drop by 1/3 from the previous week if we went to a single payer system.

What a fuckwit.





So far it's taken you 4 tries to get your story right and you are still spinning.

But I am the fuckwit?

poor little boy, perhaps you should go take a nap and try again tomorrow.

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/9/2016 2:40:41 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


~FR~

OK then.

Here's something for boi, Creative Dom, Desi, etc. ...

(hmm, somehow this seems reminiscent of calling the dogs to the bowl ... )

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/09/21/ceo-of-company-that-raised-the-price-of-old-pill-hundreds-of-dollars-overnight-calls-journalist-a-moron-for-asking-why/

From $13.50 per pill to $750 per pill, overnight.

That's, what, a 5,456 % increase?


Sing It With Me, Folks!;

That's The Way (I Like It)





I point out that you changed your story and all of a sudden I am for big pharm? Interesting logic you got going there eddi.

Pull that one out of your ass did ya? Only asking because like most of your posts, it's full of shit.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/9/2016 2:50:12 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I didn't say you said it would drop overnight. You said it US citizens would be paying 1/3 less and then when Desi said "So, the only thing that you can claim now, is that by moving to a Universal care model, US Health care costs will rise slower than if we don't" you claimed that was the whole point.
So is it going to drop 1/3 or is it just going to go up slower? You can't have it both ways.


It would be great if we could see a drop in actual costs and a slower rise. That would be epic, but there is just no proof that happens. It could happen, but I think the method for doing so would cause a problem that would make things very ugly, but, eventually, we'd have lower costs and then a lower rate of increase.




That would be nice, but from what I can tell the same folks who are currently running CMS would be the same ones running a single payer system for the whole country. And if they can't get their shit together with only part of the population under their control, how the hell are they going to do it when everyone is being covered? But I have noticed that those who keep saying we should go single payer never get to the part where they explain exactly how that would work over here. Maybe they have already worked all that out. If so I would love to hear some details. You know other than "you should do it because it works so well here"

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/9/2016 4:21:51 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

If it weren't for NATO, he wouldn't have stopped at Crimea.

What evidence do you have that would indicate that?


If you seriously believe that Europe could defend itself without NATO (which means the USAF), there's really no further discussion to be had.


This appears to say that nato is nothing more than the usaf with a paint job.
If that is so then why not just admit them to the union and they can vote in the upcomming election. if it is not so then why is it any of our business what they do?


It's an uncomfortable fact, but pretending that it's not a fact isn't better than facing the uncomfortable fact.


So far you have expressed only opinions and no facts.


There is plenty to read about Putin's geopolitical vision,


How does that compare to amerikan geopolitical vision? How many military basses does russia have outside of russia???how many militaryt basses does amerika have outside of conus?

if you'd care to educate yourself instead of constantly challenging everyone else to produce "evidence."

If I state an opinion as fact then it is incumbant on me to validate that opinion. The same goes for others.



If it weren't for NATO, the Baltic nations (and possibly even Poland) would be toast by now.


So what? Why is that an issue for amerika?


It's one of many reasons why Putin has been salivating at the prospect of a Trump presidency. It might be his best opportunity to recreate the Soviet Empire.


Which soviet empire are you referencing?




(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/9/2016 6:24:55 PM   
Lordandmaster


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If you don't know what I mean by the Soviet Empire, again, we're just not going to be able to have a conversation. I don't have time to explain the history of Russia in the 1990's to you, the disintegration of the Soviet Empire, the consolidation of Russia after Yeltsin, and Putin's current geopolitical aims. You can walk away from this exchange satisfied that you've defeated me, because I'm much too busy to teach you these things. But as far as I'm concerned it remains horrendously naïve to pretend that Europe could survive without NATO. It's probably No. 10 on the list of reasons why Trump would be a disastrous president, but it's on the list.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

It's one of many reasons why Putin has been salivating at the prospect of a Trump presidency. It might be his best opportunity to recreate the Soviet Empire.

Which soviet empire are you referencing?


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/9/2016 6:37:57 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

If you seriously believe that Europe could defend itself without NATO (which means the USAF), there's really no further discussion to be had. It's an uncomfortable fact, but pretending that it's not a fact isn't better than facing the uncomfortable fact.

There is plenty to read about Putin's geopolitical vision, if you'd care to educate yourself instead of constantly challenging everyone else to produce "evidence." If it weren't for NATO, the Baltic nations (and possibly even Poland) would be toast by now. It's one of many reasons why Putin has been salivating at the prospect of a Trump presidency. It might be his best opportunity to recreate the Soviet Empire.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

If it weren't for NATO, he wouldn't have stopped at Crimea.

What evidence do you have that would indicate that?




So, all you have is opinion.

Noted.

T^T

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/9/2016 6:41:52 PM   
Termyn8or


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You can't teach anyone any fucking thing when it comes to this shit.

T^T

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/9/2016 6:49:33 PM   
ohthat1percent


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He was spot on and his wife is now back pedaling because she knows its fucked up.

Its cost the people who have already been paying out the behind for health insurance -- i.e., the middle class, even more than ever with high premiums and deductibles.

a whole bunch of people are now covered by health insurance. Well good for them -- I have health insurance and can't afford to get sick or even basic office visits and god forbid I ever need to be hospitalized because my deductible is so high. It doesn't help that all these people have health insurance, when people who already do CAN'T AFFORD TO GET MEDICAL TREATMENT.

The system needs to be fixed and Obama, instead of worrying about his PRIDE, should have been fixing this damn thing since it was implemented. But instead he and now Hilary want to maintain something that is sucking money and causing MILLIONS not to be able to obtain health care because they can't afford it. so they have given health insurance to many, what about those who can't use it and have always had it?

I see this issue pop up all the time when clients call regarding medical treatment they need due to a car accident they were in They say they don't have the money to obtain treatment because their cases isn't over because for many they need to reach MMI, but they have a hard time doing that because their medical bills that don't go int subrogation come due.

If she felt this way about health care, she has had the ability to smack Obama in the head to work on these issues -- and now suddenly she claims she's going to have it changed?

The problem Hillary has and should be taken into account -- she has had ALL of these years in the political arena, she has HAD power - but she hasn't done a damn thing about the stuff she now claims she's going to fix.

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/9/2016 11:36:21 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Yes, I claimed that costs would eventually go down 1/3 vs, staying on the system at present.

I didn't say that costs would drop by 1/3 from the previous week if we went to a single payer system.


So far it's taken you 4 tries to get your story right and you are still spinning.



Not many people would openly admit to having read something four times through and still not understanding it.


(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/9/2016 11:57:37 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Why are you so resistant to the idea that The Fed (and other regulators) are to blame (at least in part)?


Oh, but for the good old days when we might hear something like this, one of my all time favorite quotes, from Robert Clive after his taking numerous millions out of the country, addressing a Royal Commission assigned to investigation of various and sundry perfidy in India;

"Gentlemen, at this moment I stand amazed at my own moderation."

Nobody from Goldman Sachs could have come up with such a classic.




< Message edited by Edwird -- 10/10/2016 12:24:00 AM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/10/2016 4:10:13 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

If you don't know what I mean by the Soviet Empire, again, we're just not going to be able to have a conversation.

If you are unable to define your terms how do you expect to have a discussion?


I don't have time to explain the history of Russia in the 1990's

If you are too busy to explain your position why are you posting here? Or do you feel that making rhetorical remarks is the same as having a discussion?

to you, the disintegration of the Soviet Empire,

That would have been the disintergration of the soviet union not empire. Empire is not a synonym for union in any dictionary I have seen but rather a rhetorical phrase used by "cold warriors"

the consolidation of Russia after Yeltsin, and Putin's current geopolitical aims.

What exactly are putin's geopolitical aims?

You can walk away from this exchange satisfied that you've defeated me,

Defeated??? I am interested in a discussion not a fight. I have thusfar noticed that you discuss in a rational fashion and have not resorted to uncivil rhetoric there is no reason we cannot continue in that vein.

because I'm much too busy to teach you these things.


I have not asked you to teach me anything. I have asked you to define your terms.

But as far as I'm concerned it remains horrendously naïve to pretend that Europe could survive without NATO.


Europe is far better armed than the afghanis who chucked the russians out with little more than the products of raetheon supplied by charlie wilson.


It's probably No. 10 on the list of reasons why Trump would be a disastrous president, but it's on the list.

Becoming president would most likely be the only way trump could get his finances into the black

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Bill Clinton criticising Obamacare - 10/10/2016 4:17:33 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: ohthat1percent

The problem Hillary has and should be taken into account -- she has had ALL of these years in the political arena, she has HAD power - but she hasn't done a damn thing about the stuff she now claims she's going to fix.

"All these years in the political arena" As far as I know she was a senator and sec of state. How many years is that?
What sort of power does the sos have on the actions of congress? What was her record as a senator?
How would that compare with the powers of a president?


(in reply to ohthat1percent)
Profile   Post #: 80
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