quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

And Dani Berry is not the only trans-woman to express significant regret. Of course, these days any teenager afflicted with hormones can find a read horde of genderfuck cunts on Tumblr who will teach them that they're genderqueer and lecture them on the importance of pronouns.

Basically, there's a lot of stupid people running around inflicting their own personal psychoses on impressionable teenagers. Calling yourself trans is another way of becoming part of the identity politics rainbow parade. It's stupid and dangerous.

quote:

People are often at the mercy of their beliefs but deep change work is possible. The problem is that most trans-identifying people will never submit themselves to any kind of therapeutic intervention designed to address their mind because there's a ready army of what the literature refers to as "fucking morons" who will instinctively cheer-lead any non-white, non-male, non cis or non-heterosexual development in an otherwise nominal individual's life.

I don't give a fuck if someone is queer, I really don't. However there are a lot of very stupid people who are more invested in validating their own status than they are in the happiness of the lives of others. And those stupid people will assert fucking nonsense in their quest to fill up the world with reflections of themselves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

And Dani Berry is not the only trans-woman to express significant regret. Of course, these days any teenager afflicted with hormones can find a read horde of genderfuck cunts on Tumblr who will teach them that they're genderqueer and lecture them on the importance of pronouns.

Basically, there's a lot of stupid people running around inflicting their own personal psychoses on impressionable teenagers. Calling yourself trans is another way of becoming part of the identity politics rainbow parade. It's stupid and dangerous.

Very good point. There is a big danger of this happening. Teens are very susceptible to cultural trends. And all the hype surrounding this issue is almost encouraging kids to consider ideas for themselves that they would never consider before. Body modification becomes much more dangerous when you move from tattoos, piercings and crazy haircolors and clothes to tampering with your body's physical development with hormones and surgeries.

quote:

People are often at the mercy of their beliefs but deep change work is possible. The problem is that most trans-identifying people will never submit themselves to any kind of therapeutic intervention designed to address their mind because there's a ready army of what the literature refers to as "fucking morons" who will instinctively cheer-lead any non-white, non-male, non cis or non-heterosexual development in an otherwise nominal individual's life.

I don't give a fuck if someone is queer, I really don't. However there are a lot of very stupid people who are more invested in validating their own status than they are in the happiness of the lives of others. And those stupid people will assert fucking nonsense in their quest to fill up the world with reflections of themselves.

I agree... something along the lines of 'misery loves company'.
And alot of people are making money off of this trend. It seems to be embraced as a new profitable industry and as usual, to kick start the sales cycle requires a lot of marketing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

And Dani Berry is not the only trans-woman to express significant regret. Of course, these days any teenager afflicted with hormones can find a read horde of genderfuck cunts on Tumblr who will teach them that they're genderqueer and lecture them on the importance of pronouns.

Basically, there's a lot of stupid people running around inflicting their own personal psychoses on impressionable teenagers. Calling yourself trans is another way of becoming part of the identity politics rainbow parade. It's stupid and dangerous.

Very good point. There is a big danger of this happening. Teens are very susceptible to cultural trends. And all the hype surrounding this issue is almost encouraging kids to consider ideas for themselves that they would never consider before. Body modification becomes much more dangerous when you move from tattoos, piercings and crazy haircolors and clothes to tampering with your body's physical development with hormones and surgeries.

quote:

People are often at the mercy of their beliefs but deep change work is possible. The problem is that most trans-identifying people will never submit themselves to any kind of therapeutic intervention designed to address their mind because there's a ready army of what the literature refers to as "fucking morons" who will instinctively cheer-lead any non-white, non-male, non cis or non-heterosexual development in an otherwise nominal individual's life.

I don't give a fuck if someone is queer, I really don't. However there are a lot of very stupid people who are more invested in validating their own status than they are in the happiness of the lives of others. And those stupid people will assert fucking nonsense in their quest to fill up the world with reflections of themselves.

I agree... something along the lines of 'misery loves company'.
And alot of people are making money off of this trend. It seems to be embraced as a new profitable industry and as usual, to kick start the sales cycle requires a lot of marketing.

Awareness began this thread with "scientific based" evidence for biological determinism for gender identity but now you are both saying it can be socially induced. I am a tad confused.

Furthermore, he is now proposing "deep therapy." Seems a glaring contradiction to me. I have never heard of a talk therapy that could change a biologically determined personality trait (if there even is such a thing)

You see my point? Looks to me like he would have it both ways.

Couple other things . . surely there are laws and codes of ethics that safeguard teenagers from GRS. Furthermore, the cost and current procedure stand in the way as well. Let's not forget that Dani was an adult when the surgery took place. This talk about vulnerable teenagers seems like scare mongering.

quote:

It seems like you like to devalue other's valid thoughts, opinions and ideas by your 'Seems Like' sensationalistic labeling instead of discussing the actual thoughts presented. Whether this is intentional or not, i 'm not sure.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Then, what do we mean by "intermediate genders?" Does that mean there are three, four, or five genders? Or does it mean that the brain and body are not in agreement, ... [...]

What do we mean by intermediate genders? One thing that we do mean is that the gender of the person(s) in question varies significantly from the cultural ideals of masculinity and femininity that society does so much to promote.

If we lay out all the evidence on gender without imposing any value or cultural assumptions on that data, we find that no matter the criterion of gender (eg physical sexual characteristics, behaviour, appearance, etc) used to define the data, one finds that the data forms a spectrum or continuum not discrete categories of masculine and feminine. Granted the data is loaded into clusters of masculine and feminine at either end of the spectrum but there is no actual point of separation that works in all cases. The data will form an upside down bell curve in all cases.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

It seems like you like to devalue other's valid thoughts, opinions and ideas by your 'Seems Like' sensationalistic labeling instead of discussing the actual thoughts presented. Whether this is intentional or not, i 'm not sure.

You are reading me wrong, Tam. although I can see your concern.

You brought up two ideas to be discussed but without any supporting material. If you wish to discuss associative gender identity and at risk teens you ought to at least present some basis for your opinion . . . either before or after a response. Seriously, I am not in the business of denigrating other people or their ideas. However, those ideas should be defended, doncha think?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Then Awareness and I discuss another perfectly valid and reasonable concern for a vulnerable population and how it might be impacted by all the 'hype'... as a parent and a teacher and a background in psychology this is a very reasonable concern. Yet you raise the flag of scare mongering.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Okay, so I had to think about this for awhile. If a negative bell curve of identity distributions . . . I take negative to mean the number of discrete identities decrease toward the depth of the bell the further from either "abundant" maleness or femaleness. Do I have that correct? And doesn't the calculus of any curve require discrete events no matter how narrow the incidents may be? I guess I am wrestling with the notion of gender fluidity here, or at least the prevalence of it.

quote:


Awareness's position is not founded on knowledge or a familiarity with the issues. He is coming from a position of ignorance, which is one of the few consistencies in his posts. as other have noted. Like so much of Awareness' 'positions' it seems to rely on hate, ego aggrandisement and a need to denigrate anyone who has the temerity to disagree with this self proclaimed expert on all things. There is no reason for it to be taken seriously by anyone with a genuine concern for gender variant people

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Then Awareness and I discuss another perfectly valid and reasonable concern for a vulnerable population and how it might be impacted by all the 'hype'... as a parent and a teacher and a background in psychology this is a very reasonable concern. Yet you raise the flag of scare mongering.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

I'm one of those people who think 'Do No Harm' is a good standard to live by. Therefore i would think each individual case needs to be dealt with by loved ones, friends, and appropriate professionals. Along with concern and caring for the individuals who are gender variant, i think we also must equally be concerned for and care about the vulnerable population of individuals (toddlers, young children, through teens) to make sure we don't cause harm to those who otherwise wouldn't have a problem. That is the only point that i was trying to make and i feel it is a balanced and reasonable perspective.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


Awareness's position is not founded on knowledge or a familiarity with the issues. He is coming from a position of ignorance, which is one of the few consistencies in his posts. as other have noted. Like so much of Awareness' 'positions' it seems to rely on hate, ego aggrandisement and a need to denigrate anyone who has the temerity to disagree with this self proclaimed expert on all things. There is no reason for it to be taken seriously by anyone with a genuine concern for gender variant people

My own conclusion on Awareness's position on this, as in many other matters, is that Awareness is a fruitcake, Tweakabelle.

quote:

But that's life for many TGs - human rights is a distant and abstract concept for many TGs. When one looks at the entrenched hate and bias to be found in several posts on this thread, it's easy to understand why. If a minority of kinkroids are this abusive and intolerant, one can imagine the horrors dealt out by straight society to TGs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Awareness began this thread with "scientific based" evidence for biological determinism for gender identity but now you are both saying it can be socially induced. I am a tad confused.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
I hope that this helps the discussion at hand in some small way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Very good point. There is a big danger of this happening. Teens are very susceptible to cultural trends. And all the hype surrounding this issue is almost encouraging kids to consider ideas for themselves that they would never consider before. Body modification becomes much more dangerous when you move from tattoos, piercings and crazy haircolors and clothes to tampering with your body's physical development with hormones and surgeries.

quote:


I agree... something along the lines of 'misery loves company'.

quote:


And alot of people are making money off of this trend. It seems to be embraced as a new profitable industry and as usual, to kick start the sales cycle requires a lot of marketing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

But that's life for many TGs - human rights is a distant and abstract concept for many TGs. When one looks at the entrenched hate and bias to be found in several posts on this thread, it's easy to understand why. If a minority of kinkroids are this abusive and intolerant, one can imagine the horrors dealt out by straight society to TGs.

Excellent post, Tweakabelle