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RE: Hjernevask - 10/26/2016 4:38:39 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Not sure if this sheds much light on humans, but it was interesting.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/04/160418-lions-mating-africa-animals-science/


The comments following the article confirms they both have male genitals.

True, this article seems fishy. But it is a documented phenomenon The following article appeared in PBS, Nat'l Geo, and this one
http://www.sciencealert.com/these-five-lionesses-have-grown-manes-and-now-they-re-starting-to-act-like-males


< Message edited by Wayward5oul -- 10/26/2016 4:45:41 PM >

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RE: Hjernevask - 10/26/2016 4:45:35 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

The comments following the article confirms they both have male genitals.

Thanks for the heads-up!

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RE: Hjernevask - 10/26/2016 5:43:27 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I do think Christian fundamentalists should relinquish their extremist views on this as well as other matters, the better to move the debate along in a moderate and sensible fashion.

Fair enough, but I think we also have to acknowledge that "gender studies" wonks who wave away the scientific research and promote instead their non-deterministic musings are one click away from practicing theology by other means and belong in the same category.

K.







< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/26/2016 5:52:57 PM >

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RE: Hjernevask - 10/26/2016 5:59:53 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I do think Christian fundamentalists should relinquish their extremist views on this as well as other matters, the better to move the debate along in a moderate and sensible fashion.

Fair enough, but I think we also have to acknowledge that "gender studies" wonks who dismiss the scientific research and offer us instead their non-deterministic musings are one click away from practicing theology by other means and belong in the same category.

K.








They aren't, K. We've already dealt with that here. Priestly types have a certainty (or at least claim to it) that social scientists do not. There's an argument that has it that scientists of the modern era- social scientists included - imported the certainties of pre-modernistic religion into what they falsely believed was 'scientific objectivity' ... but things have moved on since the 1960s.

Things have moved on for scientists - especially social scientists - but I don't think the same is true of religionists. They just do what they've done for hundreds of years. If anything, there's been a frenzied sort of revival of the ultra-certainty amongst those religionists. There's no neomodernism for religionists. I know this sort of epistemological equivalence is one of your most strongly-held theses, but I remain unpersuaded by it. But don't worry - I don't feel the need to convince you, just as you don't feel the need to convince me. ;)


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RE: Hjernevask - 10/26/2016 6:07:35 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Priestly types have a certainty (or at least claim to it) that social scientists do not.

Really? You seem very certain.

K.






< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/26/2016 6:52:50 PM >

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RE: Hjernevask - 10/26/2016 7:57:17 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
but I think we also have to acknowledge that "gender studies" wonks who wave away the scientific research and promote instead their non-deterministic musings are one click away from practicing theology by other means and belong in the same category.

K[/font]

The error here is all yours Mr K. You are still clinging to the delusion that there exists a 'science' of gender. There is no such thing nor can there be any such thing. I have already outlined some of the reasons why, Peon has listed others. There are many more not yet stated here.

There does exist a vast and occasionally interesting literature that purports to be a 'science of gender'. However if you were as familiar with it as I unfortunately am, you would make no scientific claims on its behalf. It is full of rampant sexism, cultural assumption dressed up as 'natural' fact, prejudice and bias, extraordinary claims on little or no evidential basis, and other serious flaws. Just one example, most of those writing this so-called 'science of gender' use a model of sexual behaviour that sees sexual desire as exclusively male and heterosexual. For these people female sexual desire/arousal only exists in reaction to male sexual advances. One wonders if any of them have ever heard of lesbians.

If you choose to cling to such gibberish and call it a 'science' of gender that's your choice but don't expect those of us who are actually familiar with the literature and all its faults to either agree or let your acts of irrational faith go unchallenged

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/26/2016 8:01:22 PM >


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RE: Hjernevask - 10/26/2016 8:15:41 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

There does exist a vast and occasionally interesting literature that purports to be a 'science of gender'. However if you were as familiar with it as I unfortunately am, you would make no scientific claims on its behalf. It is full of rampant sexism, cultural assumption dressed up as 'natural' fact, prejudice and bias, extraordinary claims on little or no evidential basis, and other serious flaws. Just one example, most of those writing this so-called 'science of gender' use a model of sexual behaviour that sees sexual desire as exclusively male and heterosexual. For these people female sexual desire/arousal only exists in reaction to male sexual advances. One wonders if any of them have ever heard of lesbians.

If you choose to cling to such gibberish and call it a 'science' of gender that's your choice but don't expect those of us who are actually familiar with the literature and all its faults to either agree or let your acts of irrational faith go unchallenged

I have made no claims on behalf of the nonsense you're reciting here. Crawl back under your rock.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/26/2016 8:23:38 PM >

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RE: Hjernevask - 10/26/2016 8:38:44 PM   
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ORIGINAL: bounty44

there are professional people out there, surgeons and psychiatrists, who are not "Christian fundamentalists" who believe men are men and women are women and they should stay that way; that its a mistake to have men "become" women.

that said, its not enough to dismiss a particular school of thought simply because it comes from a "Christian fundamentalist" without actually critiquing the argument or position.

the difficulty with that is, most lefties or atheists will not bother to understand it first without demonizing or mischaracterizing it.

for my part, yes----if a guy thinks he's a woman trapped in a man's body, he's in need of mental health help, not cross dressing, hormones and a surgeon.


You would do me a favor and point out those professionals who hold with the medical model (transgender identity is a mental illness) I am not aware of them.

Redemptive therapy has been practiced by Fundamentalists only as far as I know. If there is a body of thought in the psychiatric profession that supports what a few of those ministers have claimed I would certainly be pleased to address it.

The real problem with atheists and leftists in this area is that no one has presented a body of proof of successful theological redemption. Not even Nancy Reagan has said: Just say no. We are here having a discussion of the topic in good faith. I feel I am. So, I resent your political mud slinging. It is such a bizarre interjection.

After all the sorting we have done here with the back and forth it is particularly absurd to have you parachute in and claim we are not critiquing it. A very stupid and uncalled for interjection.

And for the last paragraph please do tell me what makes you such a smug and certain authority on the personal discord and suffering that these folks are going through. Neither you nor I have standing to dictate or suggest what sort of treatment is suitable for gender identity dysphoria.

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RE: Hjernevask - 10/26/2016 8:53:03 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

If this were true, it would suggest a type of treatment to help the person identify any resentment (for lack of a better word) against their birth biological sex and construct a healthy view of it.

Reads like . . . the sort of comments made by Christian fundamentalists about homosexuals, doesn't it? Not suggesting any malice on your part. Just noting the similar medical model.

Currently, I take it, treatment is given to help the individuals feel more comfortable with their discord and to alleviate any depression or anxiety, which apparently is considerable occurring in 71% of young people who are affected.


Yes i know it sounds like that but i'm not coming from that perspective at all. I would just think you are somewhat doing them a disservice to at least not offer that line of treatment as exploratory therapy.


Tam, it is my understanding that psychotherapy has long been offered as a medical treatment for "gender identity disorder" but that the Mental Health profession is moving away from that strategy for its inefficacy.

On Saturday, the American Psychiatric Association’s board of trustees approved changes to the latest version of The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-V) that will remove the term “Gender Identity Disorder” (GID) which has historically been used by mental health professionals to diagnose transgender individuals. Simultaneously, the term “Gender Dysphoria” will be used to describe emotional distress over “a marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned gender. Reported in 2012.

SOURCE


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RE: Hjernevask - 10/26/2016 9:22:01 PM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

If this were true, it would suggest a type of treatment to help the person identify any resentment (for lack of a better word) against their birth biological sex and construct a healthy view of it.

Reads like . . . the sort of comments made by Christian fundamentalists about homosexuals, doesn't it? Not suggesting any malice on your part. Just noting the similar medical model.

Currently, I take it, treatment is given to help the individuals feel more comfortable with their discord and to alleviate any depression or anxiety, which apparently is considerable occurring in 71% of young people who are affected.


Yes i know it sounds like that but i'm not coming from that perspective at all. I would just think you are somewhat doing them a disservice to at least not offer that line of treatment as exploratory therapy.


Tam, it is my understanding that psychotherapy has long been offered as a medical treatment for "gender identity disorder" but that the Mental Health profession is moving away from that strategy for its inefficacy.

On Saturday, the American Psychiatric Association’s board of trustees approved changes to the latest version of The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-V) that will remove the term “Gender Identity Disorder” (GID) which has historically been used by mental health professionals to diagnose transgender individuals. Simultaneously, the term “Gender Dysphoria” will be used to describe emotional distress over “a marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned gender. Reported in 2012.

SOURCE



Thanks for the information. That sounds like a move in the right direction. I think the key important issue is how to help alleviate the emotional turmoil and stress the person experiences. I am sure they probably already do this, but i would hope that somewhere in the therapy they would attempt to discover whether the individual holds any type of contempt towards the 'gender'/sex in which they were born. And if so, that should be addressed. I am in no way trying to imply that would be the cause in 100% of the cases, but perhaps it is sometimes the case and if so, that might be a much easier thing to resolve than having to go through all the changes that might otherwise be necessary.



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RE: Hjernevask - 10/26/2016 10:08:30 PM   
Lucylastic


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ORIGINAL: Awareness

The father is right. The mother has been experimenting with her child's gender identity because she's a fucking gender-fluidity loon.


I can see that pov
But I can also see several other possibilities as to how this particular one came about.
Its very likely the two fighting about it is what made her want to cut off her penis at SUCH a young age, such a terrible thing to have used against you. By anyone





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RE: Hjernevask - 10/26/2016 11:07:15 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

There does exist a vast and occasionally interesting literature that purports to be a 'science of gender'. However if you were as familiar with it as I unfortunately am, you would make no scientific claims on its behalf. It is full of rampant sexism, cultural assumption dressed up as 'natural' fact, prejudice and bias, extraordinary claims on little or no evidential basis, and other serious flaws. Just one example, most of those writing this so-called 'science of gender' use a model of sexual behaviour that sees sexual desire as exclusively male and heterosexual. For these people female sexual desire/arousal only exists in reaction to male sexual advances. One wonders if any of them have ever heard of lesbians.

If you choose to cling to such gibberish and call it a 'science' of gender that's your choice but don't expect those of us who are actually familiar with the literature and all its faults to either agree or let your acts of irrational faith go unchallenged

I have made no claims on behalf of the nonsense you're reciting here. Crawl back under your rock.

K.


You made the claim here:
" I think we also have to acknowledge that "gender studies" wonks who wave away the scientific research ..." in post #143.
That is an explicit reference to the "scientific research" that I criticised in my post and that you carried on to criticise those who rejected this so-called "scientific research". You called it "the scientific research" I called it "literature that purports to be a 'science of gender'". Same thing.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/26/2016 11:33:24 PM >


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RE: Hjernevask - 10/26/2016 11:15:36 PM   
tweakabelle


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ORIGINAL: vincentML

Then, what do we mean by "intermediate genders?" Does that mean there are three, four, or five genders? Or does it mean that the brain and body are not in agreement, ... [...]

For mine these are among the most incisive questions asked in this discussion.

What do we mean by intermediate genders? One thing that we do mean is that the gender of the person(s) in question varies significantly from the cultural ideals of masculinity and femininity that society does so much to promote.

If we lay out all the evidence on gender without imposing any value or cultural assumptions on that data, we find that no matter the criterion of gender (eg physical sexual characteristics, behaviour, appearance, etc) used to define the data, one finds that the data forms a spectrum or continuum not discrete categories of masculine and feminine. Granted the data is loaded into clusters of masculine and feminine at either end of the spectrum but there is no actual point of separation that works in all cases. The data will form an upside down bell curve in all cases.

Would people experience the discomfort they currently experience if we understood gender as happening along a spectrum or continuum? I am inclined to think they wouldn't. Certainly not to the same degree that is currently experienced.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/26/2016 11:29:50 PM >


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RE: Hjernevask - 10/27/2016 7:05:49 AM   
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I doubt it will really help. I've been a bit of a tom boy my whole life. I've always known i don't belong on the spectrum of girly girls. (I still roll my eyes when men expect because i'm a sub i should be wearing high heels and stockings). I hardly ever wear make up and my hair gets 5 minutes of my attention and that's it. I grew up on a 20 acre vegetable farm and learned to work in the dirt from a young age. But never once have i thought i should be living in a man's body. That is an entirely different issue that even an obvious spectrum won't solve.

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RE: Hjernevask - 10/27/2016 9:03:21 AM   
Awareness


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ORIGINAL: tamaka

I read this and i started thinking... what if the whole transgender thing is actually a form of dissociation... a form of identity disorder where you no longer identify with yourself. Perhaps some type of trauma happened (could be even as simple as a bad argument or something more severe) where the person decided that they didn't want to 'be' that. Do they disassociated with their gender... perhaps spent some time in a 'fog' (not really associating with male or female) and then chose the construct of the 'Other' gender as a survival strategy. If this were true, it could be difficult to diagnose because most likely the person wouldn't remember the trigger and they might not be self- aware enough to observe that process happening in themself.
Ironically, I think at least part of the issue here is that anyone who's questioning their gender identity is bombarded with positive reinforcement for expressing the idea that they might be trans.

I'd point some people to the words of the late Dani Bunten Berry who expressed significant remorse post-transition and highlighted the lack of checks and balances designed to ensure the decision to transition was actually real and not a consequence of - for example - a fetish.

quote:

Don't do it! That's my advice. This is the most awful, most expensive, most painful, most disruptive thing you could ever do. Don't do it unless there is no other alternative. You may think your life is tough but unless it's a choice between suicide and a sex-change it will only get worse. And the costs keep coming. You lose control over most aspects of your life, become a second class citizen and all so you can wear women's clothes and feel cuter than you do now. Don't do it is all I've got to say.

That's advice I wish someone had given me. I had the sex change, I "pass" fine, my career is good but you can't imagine the number of times I've wished I could go back and see if there was another way. Despite following the rules and being as honest as I could with the medical folks at each stage, nobody stopped me and said "Are you honest to God absolutely sure this is the ONLY path for you?!" To the contrary, the voices were all cheerfully supportive of my decision. I was fortunate that the web didn't exist then - there are too damn many cheerleaders ready to reassure themselves of their own decision by parading their "successful" surgeries and encouraging others.

I can speak the transgender party line that I was a female trapped in a male body and I remember feeling this way since I was 4. But, it's never that easy if you look at it sincerely and without preconception. There's little question that a mid-life crisis, a divorce and a cancer scare were involved in at least the timing of my sex-change decision. To be completely honest at this point (3 yrs post-op) is not easy, however, I'm not sure I would do it again. I'm now concerned that much of what I took as a gender dysfunction might have been nothing more than a neurotic sexual obsession. I was a cross-dresser for all of my sexual life and had always fantasized going fem as an ultimate turn-on. Ironically, when I began hormone treatment my libido went away. However, I mistook that relief from sexual obsession for validation of my gender change. Then in the final bit of irony, after surgery my new genitals were non-orgasmic (like 80% of my TG sisters).

So, needless to say, my life as a woman is not an ultimate turn-on. And what did it all cost? Over $30,000 and the loss of most of my relationships to family and friends. And the costs don't end. Every relationship I make now and in the future has to come to terms with the sex-change. And I'm not the only one who suffers. I hate the impact this will have on my kids and their future.

Anyway, I'm making it sound awful and it's not. There are some perks but the important things like being comfortable with myself and having a true love in my life don't seem like they were contingent on the change. Being my "real self" could have included having a penis and including more femininity in whatever forms made sense. I didn't know that until too late and now I have to make the best of the life I've stumbled into. I just wish I would have tried more options before I jumped off the precipice. I miss my easy access to my kids (unlike many TS's I didn't completely lose access to them though), I miss my family and old friends (I know they "shouldn't" have abandoned me but lots of folks aren't as open minded as they "should" be ... I still miss them) and finally, I hate the disconnect with my past (there's just no way to integrate the two unrelated lives). There's any number of ways to express your gender and sexuality and the only one I tried was the big one. I'll never know if I could have found a compromise that might have worked a lot better than the "one size fits all" sex-change. Please, check it out yourself before you do likewise."


And Dani Berry is not the only trans-woman to express significant regret. Of course, these days any teenager afflicted with hormones can find a read horde of genderfuck cunts on Tumblr who will teach them that they're genderqueer and lecture them on the importance of pronouns.

Basically, there's a lot of stupid people running around inflicting their own personal psychoses on impressionable teenagers. Calling yourself trans is another way of becoming part of the identity politics rainbow parade. It's stupid and dangerous.

quote:


If this were true, it would suggest a type of treatment to help the person identify any resentment (for lack of a better word) against their birth biological sex and construct a healthy view of it. But perhaps by this point the brain would be 'too far gone' in it's assimilation/accomodation self- identify reconstruction as would be observed in a strong refusal/denial to try to reassociate with their birth- sex gender attributes.
People are often at the mercy of their beliefs but deep change work is possible. The problem is that most trans-identifying people will never submit themselves to any kind of therapeutic intervention designed to address their mind because there's a ready army of what the literature refers to as "fucking morons" who will instinctively cheer-lead any non-white, non-male, non cis or non-heterosexual development in an otherwise nominal individual's life.

I don't give a fuck if someone is queer, I really don't. However there are a lot of very stupid people who are more invested in validating their own status than they are in the happiness of the lives of others. And those stupid people will assert fucking nonsense in their quest to fill up the world with reflections of themselves.




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RE: Hjernevask - 10/27/2016 9:13:42 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

If this were true, it would suggest a type of treatment to help the person identify any resentment (for lack of a better word) against their birth biological sex and construct a healthy view of it.

Reads like . . . the sort of comments made by Christian fundamentalists about homosexuals, doesn't it? Not suggesting any malice on your part. Just noting the similar medical model.

Currently, I take it, treatment is given to help the individuals feel more comfortable with their discord and to alleviate any depression or anxiety, which apparently is considerable occurring in 71% of young people who are affected.
Teens are unstable, subject to hormone-induced behavioural changes and a veritable cocktail of emotions. They need quiet guidance through a difficult period - not suggestions that they're gender-queer.

Nobody should be suggesting to a teen that they're gender-queer - that's manipulative and abusive.

The problem here is that - bar those individuals with chomosomal abnormalities - there's no evidence-based rationale for supporting someone's gender dysphoria. It's in their head. When you cut someone on the basis of what's in their head, that's a violation of the Hippocratic Oath at the very least. (And yes, i realise that includes plastic surgery - go read about Psychocybernetics to understand why plastic surgery is also a bad idea).





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RE: Hjernevask - 10/27/2016 9:27:28 AM   
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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

They aren't, K. We've already dealt with that here. Priestly types have a certainty (or at least claim to it) that social scientists do not.
I dunno, you and Tweak seem to believe you have the final lock on the truth about gender despite presenting no evidence to support your claims. I've written previously on how science has the hallmarks of religious belief, but I doubt you'd remember it.

quote:

There's an argument that has it that scientists of the modern era- social scientists included - imported the certainties of pre-modernistic religion into what they falsely believed was 'scientific objectivity' ... but things have moved on since the 1960s.
I'd say that argument is largely correct. Western natural philosphy as a discipline may hark back to Aristotle, but its Western roots are mostly found in the 16th century god-fearing Europeans such as Galileo and Newton. That belief has no doubt informed many of their underlying assumptions about the world - however despite this, those scientists still managed to practice science and advance human knowledge.


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RE: Hjernevask - 10/27/2016 9:32:55 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The error here is all yours Mr K.
*chortles* Oh, this outta be good.

quote:

You are still clinging to the delusion that there exists a 'science' of gender. There is no such thing nor can there be any such thing.
Well, WE know that... you're the one waving no evidence around and claiming "science" supports your whacky notions.l

quote:

I have already outlined some of the reasons why, Peon has listed others. There are many more not yet stated here.
Together you're about as convincing as a Nazi storm-trooper's good wishes at a Bar Mitzva.

quote:

There does exist a vast and occasionally interesting literature that purports to be a 'science of gender'. However if you were as familiar with it as I unfortunately am, you would make no scientific claims on its behalf. It is full of rampant sexism, cultural assumption dressed up as 'natural' fact, prejudice and bias, extraordinary claims on little or no evidential basis, and other serious flaws. Just one example, most of those writing this so-called 'science of gender' use a model of sexual behaviour that sees sexual desire as exclusively male and heterosexual. For these people female sexual desire/arousal only exists in reaction to male sexual advances. One wonders if any of them have ever heard of lesbians.
Translation: "I don't like these people, so their science is bad!!! And they're men!" - you have such a childish apprehension of reality.

quote:

If you choose to cling to such gibberish and call it a 'science' of gender that's your choice but don't expect those of us who are actually familiar with the literature and all its faults to either agree or let your acts of irrational faith go unchallenged
There are scientists whose work doesn't support your conclusions. They probably are a lot better at their job than you are at yours. (which is what, btw? Tumblr advocacy?)


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RE: Hjernevask - 10/27/2016 10:31:45 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

I'd point some people to the words of the late Dani Bunten Berry who expressed significant remorse post-transition and highlighted the lack of checks and balances designed to ensure the decision to transition was actually real and not a consequence of - for example - a fetish.

It is extremely difficult not to empathize with Dani Berry's remorse . . but it is disingenuous to take one or a few examples and generalize them. In this 2012 study of fifty years of gender reassignment surgery in Sweden the regret rate was only 2.2% for both natal sexes.

quote:

People are often at the mercy of their beliefs but deep change work is possible. The problem is that most trans-identifying people will never submit themselves to any kind of therapeutic intervention designed to address their mind because there's a ready army of what the literature refers to as "fucking morons" who will instinctively cheer-lead any non-white, non-male, non cis or non-heterosexual development in an otherwise nominal individual's life.


Another 2012 article describes an adaptation of group therapy in the UK and has the following comments about the literature:

There is scarce literature available on the provision of psychotherapy for individuals presenting with gender identity disorders. A National Library for Health literature search limited to papers on ‘transsexual’, ‘transgender’ and ‘psychotherapy’ of any modality yielded just 29 papers, most published over three decades ago.

A major limitation of the early literature, which was psychoanalytically based, is that the theoretical models were extrapolated from small numbers of case studies, and then applied to larger populations that may have varied from the individuals in the original studies (Greenson 1968; Stoller 1968: pp. 89–125; Stoller 1975: pp. 39–108)

[SNIP]

The literature on group psychotherapy for gender identity disorders yields only nine papers:

[SNIP]

Immediately apparent in the existing literature is the evaluative shift in focus over time. Earlier studies involved mostly born-males and were aimed at reducing ‘effeminacy’ or homosexuality, which were deemed undesirable features (Green 1973; Limentani 1989: pp. 133–154). Authors seemed to be confined to the limitations of a rigid repertoire of gender identities. This was in keeping with the narrow, binary experiences still prevalent in many transgendered patients, who feel that they have to be confined to one gender construct or switch to another. More recently, writers have conveyed a therapeutic attitude that is more accepting of uncertainty and ambiguity, rather than rigid adherence to both heterosexual and binary gender idealism (Wright 2006; Hakeem 2008).


So, maybe you can offer citations to the literature that calls people "fucking morons."

Thanks . . .

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Awareness)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Hjernevask - 10/27/2016 10:51:12 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

The problem here is that - bar those individuals with chomosomal abnormalities - there's no evidence-based rationale for supporting someone's gender dysphoria. It's in their head.

As I suggested to Tweak advances in Genomic science have come so far as to antiquate any discussion of phenotypes by referencing chromosomes.

Chromosomes are your daddy's genetics. Soooo yesterday. The best you can do at the chromosome level is refer to correlations. We will not get to the nitty gritty until we have affirmed or lay aside gene markers that lead to specific enzymes and hormones, even for narratives that are only in our minds.

If there is gender dysphoria there is a cause. We cannot say with any degree of certainty, in fact we are guessing either way I think until we affirm or eliminate or measure the degree of biological determiners (which we may never do) In the meantime, each person has only one life, so it is their decision how to lead it.

We should not be surprised if this uncertainty becomes politicized.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Awareness)
Profile   Post #: 160
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