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RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/28/2016 8:49:35 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

They are the largest market in the United States. So you aren't for letting the market decide?

And of course there is a law that says you have to pay income tax. Constitution proper and the 16th amendment.


There is no law that you have to pay income tax. Look it up. Everything you find will be IRS code and the IRS is a private corporation based in Delaware.

When pressed, officials will say that there needs to be no specific law because it is in the Constitution but that is bullshit. For example the Bill Of Rights say you cannot be deprived of life without due process, but they wrote laws against murder. Why ? Because "congress" shall enact laws to make it happen.

I know people who have beaten them into the fucking dirt, you have NOTHING to say here. You can come up with any cite, any code any anything and it will not be actual law. I am not under the jurisdiction of that private corporation in Delaware known as the IRS. I have a copy of their incorporation papers, care to see them ? I can dropbox them. A friend of mine had the actual certified copies from that state, notarized and everything. He got old and died but he paid nothing and they knew right where he was. Another friend made about $300,000 a year in the construction business and paid nothing. I saw the form they sent him after the banter declaring him a non-taxpayer. I was like WTF, he said it is like being an international arms dealer. I was not easy to convince.

But the fact remains that anything you can quote about who has to pay taxes is IRS code and they are not part of the government and that code was not legislated. The rates are, but not who has to pay.

Look it up.

T^T

Read the 16th amendment and go away.


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/28/2016 8:57:56 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Ron, you have just proven yourself totally devoid of any knowledge of manufacturing.

The technology it takes to do this will price guns out of the range of the people who need them the most.

Are you for that ? Old people who cannot run or fight, n_____s climbing in the windows. They should just give up the nice shit in their house they worked for and earned, to thugs who would rape them ?

You go live in that world. To my last breath I am against that bullshit.

You do what you want when I am gone. My little second cousins will learn to work the world just like I did, and I was pretty good at it for a time. That ended. Now they will have their time. And theirs after them.

And each one of them, that means girls too, will be taken into the basement and be taught how to shoot. And they will learn to drive on a manual transmission.

In other words this family eagerly awaits California falling into the ocean. Wish we could get rid of New York the same way. Too bad global warming won't do enough...

T^T




Go away you untutored fool. microstamping the pin at manufacture is trivial. it is an automated and quick operation. just before it goes to heat. Look, they engrave guns, they put crosshatch on the stocks and forearms, even many cheap ass guns, lose that shit. Don't pretend you have some insight into cutting parts, you do not.


Another fucking idiot I see. So OK, YOU design the tool that does this and makes a distinct microscopic pattern on each and every firing pin. And then YOU build the machine that does it.

YOU have just proven you know nothing about manufacturing. No wonder you have so much time on your hands.

I have been in the business and know engineers, one of whom made dies for the impellers for jet engines that had like 18 pulls to get the piece out. Know what pulls are when it comes to a die or casting ?

So you got these firing pins and they go into a big bin, they are NOT going to take and record the number off of each one, they will then have to do a test fire and then read the imprint.

Guns are no longer made in a barn out in the hills, they use modern manufacturing techniques and the manufacturers have damn good reason for not wanting to do this. It is stupid and useless. They have had ballistics testing for decades and it solved maybe a dozen murders. Out of how many ?

Plus the fact, another one you don't know, more than half of the murders in this country are unsolved and will remain that way. And many are not even investigated. They don't give a shit unless you are a person of interest or have alot of clout. You think homicide is detecting about all the people shot in Chicago ? Do you think all those bodies in the landfills in Cleveland in the 1960s had a full forensics examination ?

All they are doing is trying to raise the price of guns to keep them out of the hands of the poor, read Black. But also the White poor. The rich don't want a revolt or any upset because they got it good and like the status quo. Well a growing portion of the population is fucking sick of the status quo.

Are you going to give up your gun at the pawn shop ? Just let everyone know you have a bunch of money there and no gun ? Well if you want other people not to have guns you give up your own.

You can't make guns cost ten grand, not with stupid regulations like this. It is against the Constitution. Just like when you get into a court case, you don't have to pay any fees for getting public documents. They have already made it so you can get an ID free so that people who don't even have the twelve bucks can vote.

Have you ever worked in a machine shop or even studied the field ? Or metallurgy ? Well I have. Something engraved or whatever you want to call it that is that small will wear off before the buyer leaves the shooting range after practice with it. Even if it is titanium. It is a matter of PSI and pressure and inertia and whatever else. If you are such an expert on all this, tell us how many shots can be fired out of such a gun before the unique pattern is worn off to the point that is was a waste of time. You implement this stupid plan if you are so smart, and go to the range ike ten times, shoot like five or six clips every time and then see if the imprint is readable.

Stick to making up words like nutsucker and felchwhatever instead of talking adult things with people who actually know what the fuck they're talking about.

T^T

No, you are the shitbreather here. The machines already exist. Dude, the riflings of each barrel are unique, thats how they match bullets fired to a gun. Look at letter stamps, how long to wear?

https://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-6610-32-Inch-Letter-36-Piece/dp/B000NPUKY8

Now, to laser engrave the stamp head in miniature, well, been done for a century probably.

http://microstamp.us/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=23&products_id=85&zenid=n4qtrjpqjv6t1c34f6b17t95q5

case harden and there you go.

You should learn machining.

insofar as wear.....

well, you have case hardened steel (with or without a microstamp), and with the use of a spring denting brass or the new throwaway aluminum.

Yeah, no big deal for wear.

You should learn metallurgy.


Alright brainiac, how the fuck much do you think this bullshit will cost ?

What's more, what good will it do ? If I shoot someone it is because I was threatened and I do not carry when out in pubic. (maybe I should)

And are you trying to tell me that that primer that ignites the charge does not experience any of the pressure from that charge ?

And, are they going to test fire every gun at the factory and give out a sheet with the pattern these firing pins produce ?

And, is there going to be a database maintained by law enforcement that doesn't even process rape kits for two fucking years that will be up to date and be able to find out from whom the gun was stolen ?

It may have slipped your mind but most gun owners are law abiding Citizens, and if they buy a new one they have to pass a background check already. The only reason for this imprint on the firing pin shit is because in the city people do, and should, use hollow points or whatever that will not go through the target and into the next room, or apartment, or house.

Or actually make it so only the better off can afford guns, have you even thought of the cost of this ? I bet not.

Go back to making up adjectives, the only other thing you can do apparently is to buy $100 guitars off people down on their luck for $10.

T^T


And you are able to wipe your own as occasionally, beyond that hopeless.

By example you could use a 4 leaf clover for a glock 21 a diamond for a glock 30.....ad nauseam...

And with that information when the ATF calls me, and says you have to deliver me all the 45s you have pawned or sold transactions in the last 20 years within 24 hours, because someone was trying to take america back and cakked termy, (and I am obliged to do so) and all that was on the scene was casings but no guns, and we are sure it is suicide, but just to be safe...................

Instead they say, give me all the glock 21s ............a much smaller universe............helps law enforcement, helps ATF helps track down killers. Helps everybody.

you tell me what it cost to stamp those pins, you are so full of facts *snicker* that you must know that. What does it cost to brass plate the trigger on a gun?

What does it cost to produce the spring for the firing pin on a gun?


< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/28/2016 9:01:05 AM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/28/2016 9:49:22 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or




You can't make guns cost ten grand, not with stupid regulations like this. It is against the Constitution. Just like when you get into a court case, you don't have to pay any fees for getting public documents. They have already made it so you can get an ID free so that people who don't even have the twelve bucks can vote.




Not quite like this, but aren't guns property? Governments do tax that. Is there really not any way to tax $10,000/year as a property tax on firearms? Seems reasonable. I hope someone proposes it...I'd personally go $10 million/year, but $10,000 is a good start.


So you want a ban on gunseven if it means an end around on the Constitution?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/28/2016 9:53:27 PM   
LadyDemura


Posts: 141
Joined: 2/12/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or




You can't make guns cost ten grand, not with stupid regulations like this. It is against the Constitution. Just like when you get into a court case, you don't have to pay any fees for getting public documents. They have already made it so you can get an ID free so that people who don't even have the twelve bucks can vote.




Not quite like this, but aren't guns property? Governments do tax that. Is there really not any way to tax $10,000/year as a property tax on firearms? Seems reasonable. I hope someone proposes it...I'd personally go $10 million/year, but $10,000 is a good start.


So you want a ban on gunseven if it means an end around on the Constitution?


Really, I'd much rather see the well regulated militia clause used. But if there aren't going to be background checks that any militia would use to weed out the mentally ill and the Islamists, than yeah, ban guns for all but the ultra wealthy. This issue has unfortunately, like most issues become a D vs R issue, rather than people acting sensibly. Almost no American really wants the mentally ill or Islamists to have guns, but the politicians on both sides have became so entrenched in their positions, that maybe no one being allowed to have guns is better than the mentally ill and Islamists to having guns.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/28/2016 10:02:34 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or




You can't make guns cost ten grand, not with stupid regulations like this. It is against the Constitution. Just like when you get into a court case, you don't have to pay any fees for getting public documents. They have already made it so you can get an ID free so that people who don't even have the twelve bucks can vote.




Not quite like this, but aren't guns property? Governments do tax that. Is there really not any way to tax $10,000/year as a property tax on firearms? Seems reasonable. I hope someone proposes it...I'd personally go $10 million/year, but $10,000 is a good start.


So you want a ban on gunseven if it means an end around on the Constitution?


Really, I'd much rather see the well regulated militia clause used. But if there aren't going to be background checks that any militia would use to weed out the mentally ill and the Islamists, than yeah, ban guns for all but the ultra wealthy. This issue has unfortunately, like most issues become a D vs R issue, rather than people acting sensibly. Almost no American really wants the mentally ill or Islamists to have guns, but the politicians on both sides have became so entrenched in their positions, that maybe no one being allowed to have guns is better than the mentally ill and Islamists to having guns.

First not only pro gun rights people but the NRA also wants to keep guns from Islamists and the mentally ill. The anti gun crowd fights including the mentally ill from background checks on privacy grounds but wants to declare people to be Islamists on the basis of a list that requires no proof of a persons actions to get on it and which the person has no way of knowing if he is.

Do you want people on the no fly list to be bared from voting? Makes as much sense as using it to prevent people from getting guns.

Read the Constitution. It says we need a militia, but it doesn't say the militia has the right to bear arms, is says the people do.

Finally only the elites should have guns? What happened to everyone is equal under the law.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/28/2016 10:20:07 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/28/2016 10:24:37 PM   
LadyDemura


Posts: 141
Joined: 2/12/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or




You can't make guns cost ten grand, not with stupid regulations like this. It is against the Constitution. Just like when you get into a court case, you don't have to pay any fees for getting public documents. They have already made it so you can get an ID free so that people who don't even have the twelve bucks can vote.




Not quite like this, but aren't guns property? Governments do tax that. Is there really not any way to tax $10,000/year as a property tax on firearms? Seems reasonable. I hope someone proposes it...I'd personally go $10 million/year, but $10,000 is a good start.


So you want a ban on gunseven if it means an end around on the Constitution?


Really, I'd much rather see the well regulated militia clause used. But if there aren't going to be background checks that any militia would use to weed out the mentally ill and the Islamists, than yeah, ban guns for all but the ultra wealthy. This issue has unfortunately, like most issues become a D vs R issue, rather than people acting sensibly. Almost no American really wants the mentally ill or Islamists to have guns, but the politicians on both sides have became so entrenched in their positions, that maybe no one being allowed to have guns is better than the mentally ill and Islamists to having guns.

First not only pro gun rights people but the NRA also wants to keep guns from Islamists and the mentally ill. The anti gun crowd fights including the mentally ill from background checks on privacy grounds but wants to declare people to be Islamists on the basis of a list that requires no proof of a persons actions to get on it and which the person has no way of knowing if he is.

Do you want people on the no fly list to be bared from voting? Makes as much sense as using it to prevent people from getting guns.

Read the Constitution. It says we need a militia, but it doesn't say the militia has the right to bear arms, is says the people do.

Finally only the elites should have guns, what happened to everyone is equal under the law.


The Constitution, and specifically the 2nd Amendment can be interpreted in multiple ways. What point does the well regulated militia have if it isn't about the right to bear arms?

I'd rather err on the side caution being that if someone might be an Islamist or mentally ill, they shouldn't have a gun. While some people might see that as losing a right, people die when Islamists and mentally ill people have guns. People don't generally die based on election results.

I know the NRA sides on the err of caution the other way, it is horrible that both sides can't come together in the middle on this or any issue these days. Compromise is not a bad thing, but it is considered so in this political climate.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/28/2016 10:37:18 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or




You can't make guns cost ten grand, not with stupid regulations like this. It is against the Constitution. Just like when you get into a court case, you don't have to pay any fees for getting public documents. They have already made it so you can get an ID free so that people who don't even have the twelve bucks can vote.




Not quite like this, but aren't guns property? Governments do tax that. Is there really not any way to tax $10,000/year as a property tax on firearms? Seems reasonable. I hope someone proposes it...I'd personally go $10 million/year, but $10,000 is a good start.


So you want a ban on gunseven if it means an end around on the Constitution?


Really, I'd much rather see the well regulated militia clause used. But if there aren't going to be background checks that any militia would use to weed out the mentally ill and the Islamists, than yeah, ban guns for all but the ultra wealthy. This issue has unfortunately, like most issues become a D vs R issue, rather than people acting sensibly. Almost no American really wants the mentally ill or Islamists to have guns, but the politicians on both sides have became so entrenched in their positions, that maybe no one being allowed to have guns is better than the mentally ill and Islamists to having guns.

First not only pro gun rights people but the NRA also wants to keep guns from Islamists and the mentally ill. The anti gun crowd fights including the mentally ill from background checks on privacy grounds but wants to declare people to be Islamists on the basis of a list that requires no proof of a persons actions to get on it and which the person has no way of knowing if he is.

Do you want people on the no fly list to be bared from voting? Makes as much sense as using it to prevent people from getting guns.

Read the Constitution. It says we need a militia, but it doesn't say the militia has the right to bear arms, is says the people do.

Finally only the elites should have guns, what happened to everyone is equal under the law.


The Constitution, and specifically the 2nd Amendment can be interpreted in multiple ways. What point does the well regulated militia have if it isn't about the right to bear arms?

I'd rather err on the side caution being that if someone might be an Islamist or mentally ill, they shouldn't have a gun. While some people might see that as losing a right, people die when Islamists and mentally ill people have guns. People don't generally die based on election results.

I know the NRA sides on the err of caution the other way, it is horrible that both sides can't come together in the middle on this or any issue these days. Compromise is not a bad thing, but it is considered so in this political climate.

People don't die because of elections?
Of course they do.
Elections can and do decide the course of the nation.
Using the do not fly list is as it is currently put together is a violation of due process, no proof, or even solid evidence is needed to put people on it, you can get onto it if someone suspicious has the same name as you. If it is good enough to destroy one right it is good enough to take them all.
If they have evidence why don't they prosecute them?
What is the point of having a militia full of people who don't know how to use guns?
Keep in mind that when I interrupt someone trying to break into my neighbors house I am the militia.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/28/2016 11:00:47 PM   
LadyDemura


Posts: 141
Joined: 2/12/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or




You can't make guns cost ten grand, not with stupid regulations like this. It is against the Constitution. Just like when you get into a court case, you don't have to pay any fees for getting public documents. They have already made it so you can get an ID free so that people who don't even have the twelve bucks can vote.




Not quite like this, but aren't guns property? Governments do tax that. Is there really not any way to tax $10,000/year as a property tax on firearms? Seems reasonable. I hope someone proposes it...I'd personally go $10 million/year, but $10,000 is a good start.


So you want a ban on gunseven if it means an end around on the Constitution?


Really, I'd much rather see the well regulated militia clause used. But if there aren't going to be background checks that any militia would use to weed out the mentally ill and the Islamists, than yeah, ban guns for all but the ultra wealthy. This issue has unfortunately, like most issues become a D vs R issue, rather than people acting sensibly. Almost no American really wants the mentally ill or Islamists to have guns, but the politicians on both sides have became so entrenched in their positions, that maybe no one being allowed to have guns is better than the mentally ill and Islamists to having guns.

First not only pro gun rights people but the NRA also wants to keep guns from Islamists and the mentally ill. The anti gun crowd fights including the mentally ill from background checks on privacy grounds but wants to declare people to be Islamists on the basis of a list that requires no proof of a persons actions to get on it and which the person has no way of knowing if he is.

Do you want people on the no fly list to be bared from voting? Makes as much sense as using it to prevent people from getting guns.

Read the Constitution. It says we need a militia, but it doesn't say the militia has the right to bear arms, is says the people do.

Finally only the elites should have guns, what happened to everyone is equal under the law.


The Constitution, and specifically the 2nd Amendment can be interpreted in multiple ways. What point does the well regulated militia have if it isn't about the right to bear arms?

I'd rather err on the side caution being that if someone might be an Islamist or mentally ill, they shouldn't have a gun. While some people might see that as losing a right, people die when Islamists and mentally ill people have guns. People don't generally die based on election results.

I know the NRA sides on the err of caution the other way, it is horrible that both sides can't come together in the middle on this or any issue these days. Compromise is not a bad thing, but it is considered so in this political climate.

People don't die because of elections?
Of course they do.
Elections can and do decide the course of the nation.
Using the do not fly list is as it is currently put together is a violation of due process, no proof, or even solid evidence is needed to put people on it, you can get onto it if someone suspicious has the same name as you. If it is good enough to destroy one right it is good enough to take them all.
If they have evidence why don't they prosecute them?
What is the point of having a militia full of people who don't know how to use guns?
Keep in mind that when I interrupt someone trying to break into my neighbors house I am the militia.



You are assuming I'm suggesting policies that are totally inline with what some Democrats have suggested. That's not quite what I'm suggesting. I'm really more of a moderate on most issues and a radical on others.

I'd like to see a militia full of sane, non-Islamists, ready to protect our nation in the case we have a real threat to our sovereignty. While that is unlikely with our current status, if perhaps Russia, China, Mexico, and Canada teamed up, it could be and our current military might not be enough. I'd like to see the militia have regular psych evaluations, as a fitness to serve. Some occasional training wouldn't be a bad idea either.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/29/2016 9:40:34 AM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

They are the largest market in the United States. So you aren't for letting the market decide?

And of course there is a law that says you have to pay income tax. Constitution proper and the 16th amendment.


There is no law that you have to pay income tax. Look it up. Everything you find will be IRS code and the IRS is a private corporation based in Delaware.
No, that's bullshit put forward by purveyors of tax evasion schemes. Liability for Federal income tax is defined in US Code 26. The IRS is part of the Department of the Treasury. Congress has the constitutional power to levy taxes and exactly how they choose to do it is fucking irrelevant. Making wild claims about its legality is pointless as all your arguments are smashed to pieces by the sixteenth amendment.

quote:


When pressed, officials will say that there needs to be no specific law because it is in the Constitution but that is bullshit. For example the Bill Of Rights say you cannot be deprived of life without due process, but they wrote laws against murder. Why ? Because "congress" shall enact laws to make it happen.
This paragraph doesn't even begin to make sense. Really. You're not making a contention here, you're just stringing together nonsensical sentences.

quote:

I am not under the jurisdiction of that private corporation in Delaware known as the IRS.
No, you're under the jurisdiction of the United States government and they can choose whatever mechanism they need to get you to pay the tax you lawfully owe. If you're not paying tax, then you're a tax evader - a parasite.

Your ludicrous fictional legal basis for tax evasion is directly addressed by the IRS here: https://www.irs.gov/tax-professionals/the-truth-about-frivolous-tax-arguments-section-i-d-to-e#_Toc350157908

I trust you will note the five examples of case law which validate this.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/29/2016 12:40:18 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or




You can't make guns cost ten grand, not with stupid regulations like this. It is against the Constitution. Just like when you get into a court case, you don't have to pay any fees for getting public documents. They have already made it so you can get an ID free so that people who don't even have the twelve bucks can vote.




Not quite like this, but aren't guns property? Governments do tax that. Is there really not any way to tax $10,000/year as a property tax on firearms? Seems reasonable. I hope someone proposes it...I'd personally go $10 million/year, but $10,000 is a good start.


So you want a ban on gunseven if it means an end around on the Constitution?


Really, I'd much rather see the well regulated militia clause used. But if there aren't going to be background checks that any militia would use to weed out the mentally ill and the Islamists, than yeah, ban guns for all but the ultra wealthy. This issue has unfortunately, like most issues become a D vs R issue, rather than people acting sensibly. Almost no American really wants the mentally ill or Islamists to have guns, but the politicians on both sides have became so entrenched in their positions, that maybe no one being allowed to have guns is better than the mentally ill and Islamists to having guns.

First not only pro gun rights people but the NRA also wants to keep guns from Islamists and the mentally ill. The anti gun crowd fights including the mentally ill from background checks on privacy grounds but wants to declare people to be Islamists on the basis of a list that requires no proof of a persons actions to get on it and which the person has no way of knowing if he is.

Do you want people on the no fly list to be bared from voting? Makes as much sense as using it to prevent people from getting guns.

Read the Constitution. It says we need a militia, but it doesn't say the militia has the right to bear arms, is says the people do.

Finally only the elites should have guns, what happened to everyone is equal under the law.


The Constitution, and specifically the 2nd Amendment can be interpreted in multiple ways. What point does the well regulated militia have if it isn't about the right to bear arms?

I'd rather err on the side caution being that if someone might be an Islamist or mentally ill, they shouldn't have a gun. While some people might see that as losing a right, people die when Islamists and mentally ill people have guns. People don't generally die based on election results.

I know the NRA sides on the err of caution the other way, it is horrible that both sides can't come together in the middle on this or any issue these days. Compromise is not a bad thing, but it is considered so in this political climate.

People don't die because of elections?
Of course they do.
Elections can and do decide the course of the nation.
Using the do not fly list is as it is currently put together is a violation of due process, no proof, or even solid evidence is needed to put people on it, you can get onto it if someone suspicious has the same name as you. If it is good enough to destroy one right it is good enough to take them all.
If they have evidence why don't they prosecute them?
What is the point of having a militia full of people who don't know how to use guns?
Keep in mind that when I interrupt someone trying to break into my neighbors house I am the militia.



You are assuming I'm suggesting policies that are totally inline with what some Democrats have suggested. That's not quite what I'm suggesting. I'm really more of a moderate on most issues and a radical on others.

I'd like to see a militia full of sane, non-Islamists, ready to protect our nation in the case we have a real threat to our sovereignty. While that is unlikely with our current status, if perhaps Russia, China, Mexico, and Canada teamed up, it could be and our current military might not be enough. I'd like to see the militia have regular psych evaluations, as a fitness to serve. Some occasional training wouldn't be a bad idea either.

You want to make guns so expensive that only the "elites" can afford them.
While you may not follow exactly the path the Dems want to your goal is the same.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/29/2016 9:26:12 PM   
LadyDemura


Posts: 141
Joined: 2/12/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or




You can't make guns cost ten grand, not with stupid regulations like this. It is against the Constitution. Just like when you get into a court case, you don't have to pay any fees for getting public documents. They have already made it so you can get an ID free so that people who don't even have the twelve bucks can vote.




Not quite like this, but aren't guns property? Governments do tax that. Is there really not any way to tax $10,000/year as a property tax on firearms? Seems reasonable. I hope someone proposes it...I'd personally go $10 million/year, but $10,000 is a good start.


So you want a ban on gunseven if it means an end around on the Constitution?


Really, I'd much rather see the well regulated militia clause used. But if there aren't going to be background checks that any militia would use to weed out the mentally ill and the Islamists, than yeah, ban guns for all but the ultra wealthy. This issue has unfortunately, like most issues become a D vs R issue, rather than people acting sensibly. Almost no American really wants the mentally ill or Islamists to have guns, but the politicians on both sides have became so entrenched in their positions, that maybe no one being allowed to have guns is better than the mentally ill and Islamists to having guns.

First not only pro gun rights people but the NRA also wants to keep guns from Islamists and the mentally ill. The anti gun crowd fights including the mentally ill from background checks on privacy grounds but wants to declare people to be Islamists on the basis of a list that requires no proof of a persons actions to get on it and which the person has no way of knowing if he is.

Do you want people on the no fly list to be bared from voting? Makes as much sense as using it to prevent people from getting guns.

Read the Constitution. It says we need a militia, but it doesn't say the militia has the right to bear arms, is says the people do.

Finally only the elites should have guns, what happened to everyone is equal under the law.


The Constitution, and specifically the 2nd Amendment can be interpreted in multiple ways. What point does the well regulated militia have if it isn't about the right to bear arms?

I'd rather err on the side caution being that if someone might be an Islamist or mentally ill, they shouldn't have a gun. While some people might see that as losing a right, people die when Islamists and mentally ill people have guns. People don't generally die based on election results.

I know the NRA sides on the err of caution the other way, it is horrible that both sides can't come together in the middle on this or any issue these days. Compromise is not a bad thing, but it is considered so in this political climate.

People don't die because of elections?
Of course they do.
Elections can and do decide the course of the nation.
Using the do not fly list is as it is currently put together is a violation of due process, no proof, or even solid evidence is needed to put people on it, you can get onto it if someone suspicious has the same name as you. If it is good enough to destroy one right it is good enough to take them all.
If they have evidence why don't they prosecute them?
What is the point of having a militia full of people who don't know how to use guns?
Keep in mind that when I interrupt someone trying to break into my neighbors house I am the militia.



You are assuming I'm suggesting policies that are totally inline with what some Democrats have suggested. That's not quite what I'm suggesting. I'm really more of a moderate on most issues and a radical on others.

I'd like to see a militia full of sane, non-Islamists, ready to protect our nation in the case we have a real threat to our sovereignty. While that is unlikely with our current status, if perhaps Russia, China, Mexico, and Canada teamed up, it could be and our current military might not be enough. I'd like to see the militia have regular psych evaluations, as a fitness to serve. Some occasional training wouldn't be a bad idea either.

You want to make guns so expensive that only the "elites" can afford them.
While you may not follow exactly the path the Dems want to your goal is the same.

I'd rather it not come to that, but since most Islamists and mentally ill people are not "elites", that might be the only way to weed them out. Or we could just have truly comprehensive background checks for all gun owners...

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/29/2016 9:47:36 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
I'd rather it not come to that, but since most Islamists and mentally ill people are not "elites", that might be the only way to weed them out. Or we could just have truly comprehensive background checks for all gun owners...


To say that the no fly list is a reasonable guide for taking away a persons gun rights is like saying that the Salem trials followed a sane, reasonable, and just system.
As done now, someone can call a government agency up make an anonymous accusation get you on the list and you never know it (let alone get to rebut it) till you try to get on a plane and can't. When you do find out it can take years, and thousands of dollars to get off it. The list as currently formed is a violation of due process, this is not just the NRA, it is also the position of the ACLU. Before it can be used effectively it has to be restructured so that it actually means something.
Lets make the background system work with the workload they have now, they need more people and entering relevant information is not mandatory so things that disqualify people don't get into the system, one of the most notorious cases was VA Tech were the shooter was only able to buy a gun because VA refused to put the fact that he had been involuntarily committed to a mental institution claiming privacy concerns.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/29/2016 11:37:39 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


I'd like to see a militia full of sane, non-Islamists, ready to protect our nation in the case we have a real threat to our sovereignty.


When in the history of amerika has that ever happened?


While that is unlikely with our current status, if perhaps Russia, China, Mexico, and Canada teamed up, it could be and our current military might not be enough.


"If" bullfrogs had springs on their asses perhaps they would not bump it everytime they landed.


I'd like to see the militia have regular psych evaluations, as a fitness to serve. Some occasional training wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Read the dick act. The militia is not what you think it is.

(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/30/2016 8:42:25 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
I'd rather it not come to that, but since most Islamists and mentally ill people are not "elites", that might be the only way to weed them out.

I have already explained that many states refuse to put mental health information, would you be happy with a law that required states to put all relevant information into the system.

Define Islamists, do you mean terrorists or just every Muslim?

Do you actually think that any law will keep a terrorist from getting guns, I refer you to France. Terrorists have access to money to get around that.
They can sneak guns into the country, or they can get enough money to get a straw purchase, and before you say we should outlaw them we all ready have.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/30/2016 11:18:33 AM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline
Sigh...

The "well regulated militia" is an enabling clause stating why the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
___________________________________________
The cost of $150.00 per firearm to implement micro-stamping is due to the record keeping, labor for back fitting, and certification to show a given micro-stamp is tied to a given firearm serial number. Since it takes about 5 minutes to grind off the micro-stamp on a firing pin and even less time to strip down and replace a firing pin; the added cost to a firearm is totally ineffectual in gaining any benefit to criminal justice prosecution. Micro-stamping is just more onerous bureaucratic requirement with no benefit to anyone.
_________________________________________________

There are already background check requirements in place to purchase a firearm. Alluding that there are none is fantasy based inflammatory rhetoric. We don't need more legislation we just need the administration to enforce the laws already on the books. But, enforcing the laws already in effect doesn't make political brownie points like screaming things like "gun show loophole". BTW, the "gun show loophole" is a total fantasy fabrication to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/30/2016 4:09:19 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Sigh...

The "well regulated militia" is an enabling clause stating why the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
___________________________________________
The cost of $150.00 per firearm to implement micro-stamping is due to the record keeping, labor for back fitting, and certification to show a given micro-stamp is tied to a given firearm serial number. Since it takes about 5 minutes to grind off the micro-stamp on a firing pin and even less time to strip down and replace a firing pin; the added cost to a firearm is totally ineffectual in gaining any benefit to criminal justice prosecution. Micro-stamping is just more onerous bureaucratic requirement with no benefit to anyone.
_________________________________________________

There are already background check requirements in place to purchase a firearm. Alluding that there are none is fantasy based inflammatory rhetoric. We don't need more legislation we just need the administration to enforce the laws already on the books. But, enforcing the laws already in effect doesn't make political brownie points like screaming things like "gun show loophole". BTW, the "gun show loophole" is a total fantasy fabrication to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Forget changing firing pins, how many shots will it take for the repeated impact to distort the microstamping to the point that it is useless, it is just excuse to make it harder to afford firearms. It is at its heart racist, because since blacks have a higher poverty rate than any other group they will be more heavily penalized.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/30/2016 6:42:19 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: MercTech


The cost of $150.00 per firearm to implement micro-stamping is due to the record keeping,

Record keeping is computerised = pennies

labor for back fitting,

The law affects new production so no backfitting cost.


and certification to show a given micro-stamp is tied to a given firearm serial number.

Also computerised so = pennies.


Since it takes about 5 minutes to grind off the micro-stamp on a firing pin and even less time to strip down and replace a firing pin;

Why would a criminal do that to a stolen gun? The micro-stamp ties the shell casing to the person the gun was stolen from.(most criminals use stolen guns).


the added cost to a firearm is totally ineffectual in gaining any benefit to criminal justice prosecution. Micro-stamping is just more onerous bureaucratic requirement with no benefit to anyone.


Pretty obvious that the benifit is to the bureaucrats weekly welfare/pay check.

There are already background check requirements in place to purchase a firearm. Alluding that there are none is fantasy based inflammatory rhetoric. We don't need more legislation we just need the administration to enforce the laws already on the books.

How, exactly, would that enhance their welfare/pay check?



(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/30/2016 6:48:46 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

ORIGINAL: BamaD


Forget changing firing pins, how many shots will it take for the repeated impact to distort the microstamping to the point that it is useless,

That issue has already been pointed out to be untrue. Pay attention dumbass.


it is just excuse to make it harder to afford firearms.

No shit sherlock


It is at its heart racist, because since blacks have a higher poverty rate than any other group they will be more heavily penalized.

Wrong...native amerikans have a higher poverty rate, blacks have the second highest poverty rate.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 10/31/2016 8:05:09 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Sigh...

The "well regulated militia" is an enabling clause stating why the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
___________________________________________
The cost of $150.00 per firearm to implement micro-stamping is due to the record keeping, labor for back fitting, and certification to show a given micro-stamp is tied to a given firearm serial number. Since it takes about 5 minutes to grind off the micro-stamp on a firing pin and even less time to strip down and replace a firing pin; the added cost to a firearm is totally ineffectual in gaining any benefit to criminal justice prosecution. Micro-stamping is just more onerous bureaucratic requirement with no benefit to anyone.
_________________________________________________

There are already background check requirements in place to purchase a firearm. Alluding that there are none is fantasy based inflammatory rhetoric. We don't need more legislation we just need the administration to enforce the laws already on the books. But, enforcing the laws already in effect doesn't make political brownie points like screaming things like "gun show loophole". BTW, the "gun show loophole" is a total fantasy fabrication to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Oh, no that is untrue. private sales require no background check, some states require no check at gunshows. and if you grind off the microstamp, the stamp would be female, the gun dont fire. Uh, you can grind serial numbers off of guns even now. Those absent laws are not enforceable.

The fabrication fantasy is what?
Only six states (California, Colorado, Illinois, New York, Oregon and Rhode Island) require universal background checks on allfirearm sales at gun shows, including sales by unlicensed dealers. Three more states (Connecticut, Maryland and Pennsylvania) require background checks on all handgun sales made at gun shows. Eight other states (Hawaii, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, New Jersey, Nebraska and North Carolina) require purchasers to obtain a permit and undergo a background check before buying a handgun. 33 states have taken no action whatsoever to close the gun show loophole.

In two states, voters themselves closed the loophole when their legislatures refused to do so. On November 7, 2000, the citizens of Colorado overwhelmingly voted 70% – 30% in favor of Amendment 22, closing the gun show loophole in their state. The referendum followed the tragic shooting at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999 (the guns used in the shooting were purchased from private sellers at Denver gun shows). In Oregon, voters also voted overwhelmingly, 62% – 38%, in favor of Measure 5, effectively closing the gun show loophole in their state.

Does anyone think that criminals go to licensed dealers to get their guns?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: CA attempts backdoor gun ban - 11/1/2016 12:10:35 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
"Does anyone think that criminals go to licensed dealers to get their guns? "

Apparently the dumb motherfuckers do.

And to the tax issue, I have already seen all the government shit about that and I have seen people beat them. You go to the social security website ad it says participation is mandatory and that is also a lie.

Do people really think the government does not lie ? Well I guess those are the ones who think criminals go to licensed gun dealers for their weapons. How much stupider can they get ? I think time will tell actually.

T^T

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 60
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