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ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

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ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

I understand what you're saying and what you are talking about is more of a bedroom submissive. I really can't relate because to me that is kinky sex play. When i say i'm submissive, i am talking alot more than the bedroom. I know i am very old- fashioned compared to most women these days. I am strong when under the leadership of a strong man. I don't want anymore responsibility than I have to have. I like to defer to the man in my life's authority... the buck stops with him so- to- speak. So perhaps we are talking apples and oranges here.

There are several women in this site who are not bedroom submissives, they are lifestyle submissives they live it day and night, and they have described themselves to be the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. You are describing a doormat, as needles said. And the lifestyle submissives I know would be offended by that.

Actually i described myself a little to you and you labelled me a doormat.

This is taken out of context, and is intentionally misleading. Go back and read it in the context of the conversation .

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ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

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ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

I understand what you're saying and what you are talking about is more of a bedroom submissive. I really can't relate because to me that is kinky sex play. When i say i'm submissive, i am talking alot more than the bedroom. I know i am very old- fashioned compared to most women these days. I am strong when under the leadership of a strong man. I don't want anymore responsibility than I have to have. I like to defer to the man in my life's authority... the buck stops with him so- to- speak. So perhaps we are talking apples and oranges here.

There are several women in this site who are not bedroom submissives, they are lifestyle submissives they live it day and night, and they have described themselves to be the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. You are describing a doormat, as needles said. And the lifestyle submissives I know would be offended by that.

Actually i described myself a little to you and you labelled me a doormat.

This is taken out of context, and is intentionally misleading. Go back and read it in the context of the conversation .

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

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ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

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ORIGINAL: tamaka
I think there is a difference between a powerful man who uses a dominatrix for some relief for a few hours vs. a boy who wants to submit to the rule of women as his paradigm of existence.

Anyone who submits to anyone as a paradigm of their existence is going to be different from most other members of their gender. I'm just not sure why you're trying to force traditional gender roles onto non-traditional relationships.

I'm not trying to force anything. I just have a concern for the long- term well- being of society when we don't hold any reasonable standards for the individuals that compose that society.

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I think it's strange how the open- minded crowd seems to have a rather hostile reaction and outright disdain to people who have open their minds to consider their ideas but ultimately determined to disagree with them. It's really the strangest thing.

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

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I think it's strange how the open- minded crowd seems to have a rather hostile reaction and outright disdain to people who have open their minds to consider their ideas but ultimately determined to disagree with them. It's really the strangest thing.

What on earth makes you think they are open-minded?

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

You want to play on technicalities, then by tamaka's own definition it's what she is calling every sub guy. I'm not seeing how that is right either. I'm not seeing how her calling sub men weak and pathetic gets a free pass in here with anyone. It doesn't have to be her turn on, but it's a really crappy way to talk about people.

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

Wayward5oul was calling her out in context of 'well by your own standards, if'. It's really not difficult to work that out, and it's a very valid point.

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

Life isn't fair. A man will never be the best version of himself on his knees.

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
I didn't say you did it.

But you asked Awareness "When have you ever seen it happen and the perpetrator getting a pass for it?" and I'm telling you: I've seen it a lot.

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

Life isn't fair. A man will never be the best version of himself on his knees.

I disagree, my fella is never a better person or a better man than when on his knees playing with his daughter.

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ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
No, being led around by the nose ring implies much more than just doing what someone else wants. It has a negative connotation to it, which actually goes with your earlier statement about submissive men being weak, not protective, they aren't leaders, they abdicate responsibility. Those are not things that a submissive does because they are ordered to, those are personality traits that are not accurate descriptions of any submissives I know, male or female.

I know a lot of submissive men AND women who are nothing like that. Including myself. You being submissive, you must apply this description to yourself as well. If this true? If not, why not?

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

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ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

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ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

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ORIGINAL: tamaka
I think there is a difference between a powerful man who uses a dominatrix for some relief for a few hours vs. a boy who wants to submit to the rule of women as his paradigm of existence.

Anyone who submits to anyone as a paradigm of their existence is going to be different from most other members of their gender. I'm just not sure why you're trying to force traditional gender roles onto non-traditional relationships.

I'm not trying to force anything. I just have a concern for the long- term well- being of society when we don't hold any reasonable standards for the individuals that compose that society.

YOU'RE ON A BDSM WEBSITE. You're concerned about society? Are you mental?

Being a submissive male does not begin and end in the BDSM world.

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

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ORIGINAL: tamaka

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ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

Clearly you are not prepared to back up your statement.

I'm sorry... i don't know exactly what you're getting at. Led around by a nosering is an expression. Basically it means that you follow along with what someone else wants.

Are you a weak little doormat? Are you a pathetic, sniveling little non entity?

So say for instance you do every last whim of your Dom, and he's happy with you, that makes you happy right. Now, Peon is with any number if the queuing hoards of women on here waiting to snap him up, he wants nothing more than to please them, they are pleased with his service just as your Dom is pleased with yours, and that, I'm assuming pleases him. The world here has not fallen apart, because outside in the everyday world there is nothing to say that Peon isn't exactly the man you assume a man is supposed to be. Because walking down the street as a complete stranger would you know what his kink is. Do you scream walking doormat as you walk down the street? or are you just a woman, assuming you're not someone's dodgy sock here, that is the 'same' as any other strong woman, but has a slant for the sub side?

I haven't met Peon in person, but as the world hasn't gone tits up over his preference I'm going to assume that his macho levels are just dandy.

Needles

Just to remind EVERYONE here, NO-ONE called ANYONE a doormat actually. I ASKED a question. In fact I asked several questions throughout this thread several times and was NEVER answered. You see I was asking if the same crap logic being applied to a penis applied to a vagina, but like I said, I never got the answer.

So anyone throwing an accusation of tamaka being called a doormat by me can kindly get their facts straight.

Thanks, and all that.

Needles

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ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

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ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
No, being led around by the nose ring implies much more than just doing what someone else wants. It has a negative connotation to it, which actually goes with your earlier statement about submissive men being weak, not protective, they aren't leaders, they abdicate responsibility. Those are not things that a submissive does because they are ordered to, those are personality traits that are not accurate descriptions of any submissives I know, male or female.

I know a lot of submissive men AND women who are nothing like that. Including myself. You being submissive, you must apply this description to yourself as well. If this true? If not, why not?

The context which i was referring to includes this conversation, which is the one tamaka was responding to when I responded with the post that includes doormat.

When I said that the description was of a doormat, I was referencing this, where I had actually asked her if this description she made actually applied to her. Note that the whole time I am openly questioning her description of female subs as well, inclung how she is applying it to herself. Even In the post where I used doormat, I said she was suggesting these things. I think the totality of the posts I made indicate that I disagree with the negative descriptions, and that I had a hard time believing that it actually applied to her, hence the questioning and requests for clarification.

As needles pointed out, lots of questions went unanswered, or were answered in a vague manner that prompted more questions.

I still state that, when taken in the context of the conversation, I did not call her a doormat. I argued against the idea and repeatedly questioned that the idea applied to anyone, including her.

If you disagree with that, so be it. But I stand by it. And I stand by my statement that I disagree with the sub as doirmat comparison and have argued against it on these boards.

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ORIGINAL: tamaka
Life isn't fair. A man will never be the best version of himself on his knees.

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ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

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ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
No, being led around by the nose ring implies much more than just doing what someone else wants. It has a negative connotation to it, which actually goes with your earlier statement about submissive men being weak, not protective, they aren't leaders, they abdicate responsibility. Those are not things that a submissive does because they are ordered to, those are personality traits that are not accurate descriptions of any submissives I know, male or female.

I know a lot of submissive men AND women who are nothing like that. Including myself. You being submissive, you must apply this description to yourself as well. If this true? If not, why not?

The context which i was referring to includes this conversation, which is the one tamaka was responding to when I responded with the post that includes doormat.

When I said that the description was of a doormat, I was referencing this, where I had actually asked her if this description she made actually applied to her. Note that the whole time I am openly questioning her description of female subs as well, inclung how she is applying it to herself. Even In the post where I used doormat, I said she was suggesting these things. I think the totality of the posts I made indicate that I disagree with the negative descriptions, and that I had a hard time believing that it actually applied to her, hence the questioning and requests for clarification.

As needles pointed out, lots of questions went unanswered, or were answered in a vague manner that prompted more questions.

I still state that, when taken in the context of the conversation, I did not call her a doormat. I argued against the idea and repeatedly questioned that the idea applied to anyone, including her.

If you disagree with that, so be it. But I stand by it. And I stand by my statement that I disagree with the sub as doirmat comparison and have argued against it on these boards.

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

You want to play on technicalities, then by tamaka's own definition it's what she is calling every sub guy. I'm not seeing how that is right either. I'm not seeing how her calling sub men weak and pathetic gets a free pass in here with anyone. It doesn't have to be her turn on, but it's a really crappy way to talk about people.

Absolutely. She totally called all male submissives doormats.
I didn't see her get a free pass for it either.

LP asked Awareness when he's seen people get a free pass for calling female submissives "weak and pathetic"/doormats, and so I felt the need to point out to her that I've seen that a lot... hell, it's happened to me personally quite a bit... apparently again in this very thread (which I didn't know at the time because I missed a bunch when I was gone from the boards for a few days and didn't bother reading every single post before replying to LPs post).

My point to LP stands: people get a free pass all the time for calling female submissives "weak and pathetic" they just do it by means of calling the female submissive a "doormat", and thereby try to shame her for submitting in a different way than they do.

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

Wayward5oul was calling her out in context of 'well by your own standards, if'. It's really not difficult to work that out, and it's a very valid point.

Yeah, Wayward5oul said 'well, by our standards if you submit like [tamaka just described herself submitting] then you're a doormat, and the [twue] lifestyle submissives on this board would take offense at you calling that lifestyle submission'.

Well it so happens that I, my slave, and a number of my close friends submit EXACTLY the way tamaka was describing (although I hope I could have described it a bit more eloquent than she did) so apparently that makes us all doormats.

Sadly that is nothing new to me though... I've been called "weak and pathetic"/doormat for as long as I've posted here.
And before that I got call it offline.

And you know what? Apparently it worked out really well for everybody too! Because I don't post about how I submit nearly as often anymore as I once used to, so ya'll don't need to be bother anymore by how pathetic I really am...