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RE: How will the US heal itself? - 11/9/2016 10:02:35 AM   
OsideGirl


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RE: How will the US heal itself? - 11/9/2016 10:16:33 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji
Honestly, let's be really honest. The people causing riots at political events were leftists. Not once did you hear Hillary or Bernie tell them to stop. Trump didn't campaign on hate, stupidity and ignorance, Hillary, along with the MSM said he did so the ignorant accepted that twist. Obama had absolutely no credentials to be president, at the time of his first election he flat out said Hillary was incompetent and if Trump agreed, who can blame him. Not once did you hear Hillary complain that her operatives were providing her debate questions.

You're projecting.


Is it really so inconceivable that someone could simply listen to Trump speak and walk away convinced of his hate, stupidity or ignorance? Why must everyone who doesn't like Trump be incapable of forming their own opinions?

There were leftists antagonizing the crowds at Trump rallies... and there were Trump supporters spreading racism all over America as soon as he got the GOP nomination. The election was divisive... but it's not like the right is owning up to their nastiness any time soon.

Obama had a 10 year career in politics before he became president.

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RE: How will the US heal itself? - 11/9/2016 10:18:57 AM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech
I have to disagree. The best way to heal the manufactured divide in race, gender, and ethnic groups is to toss out the Democrats that have been fanning the fire for decades to woo minority votes. We need to return to the ideal where race doesn't matter, sex doesn't matter, only performance and integrity matter.

If you actually look at the actions and not the rampant accusations; the Clinton supporters were the ones fueling actual violence. The Trump campaign voiced concerns and intentions on controlling illegal actions. If one ethnic group (not race - ethnic group as in common cultural attitudes) is causing the majority of the problems; it needs to be addressed. We need to stop screaming "racist" when someone is trying to have a dialog about why one ethnic group is having problems far higher than their numbers should account for.


Nobody has ever said it's racist to examine the problems facing a certain ethnic group. What's racist is when you use those problems as an excuse to exclude them from your society, say, by hunting them down and kicking them out, aggressively policing their communities, refusing them entry to your country or simply tolerating or in some cases actively supporting racist attitudes towards them.


Quote the statistic that Afro-American (an ethnic group in the U.S. and not inclusive of all people of color) constitutes less than 15% of the population but accounts for over 50% of criminal convictions and see how fast you are branded "RACIST".
Express support for the idea of a moratorium on Muslim immigration until a protocol for verifying they have no terrorist ties and see how fast you are branded a "RACIST". (Even though Muslim is a religion and not a race or ethnic group.)
Express a concern that the U.S. southern border needs to be secured against illegal border crossings to prevent criminals from entering and cut out the major source of bodies for human trafficking and you will be branded "RACIST". (Even though "Hispanic" is an ethnic group of mostly Caucasian racial types.)

The first step in healing is listening and not screaming epithets at anyone who disagrees with you. i.e. the fringe that thinks "white male" automatically means they are an evil rapist just waiting for opportunity.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
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RE: How will the US heal itself? - 11/9/2016 10:21:40 AM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji
Honestly, let's be really honest. The people causing riots at political events were leftists. Not once did you hear Hillary or Bernie tell them to stop. Trump didn't campaign on hate, stupidity and ignorance, Hillary, along with the MSM said he did so the ignorant accepted that twist. Obama had absolutely no credentials to be president, at the time of his first election he flat out said Hillary was incompetent and if Trump agreed, who can blame him. Not once did you hear Hillary complain that her operatives were providing her debate questions.

You're projecting.


Is it really so inconceivable that someone could simply listen to Trump speak and walk away convinced of his hate, stupidity or ignorance? Why must everyone who doesn't like Trump be incapable of forming their own opinions?

There were leftists antagonizing the crowds at Trump rallies... and there were Trump supporters spreading racism all over America as soon as he got the GOP nomination. The election was divisive... but it's not like the right is owning up to their nastiness any time soon.

Obama had a 10 year career in politics before he became president.



You obviously don't live here. The racism was rampant before Trump even stepped onto the scene. That bad cop thing...

< Message edited by tamaka -- 11/9/2016 10:24:11 AM >

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: How will the US heal itself? - 11/9/2016 10:30:54 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Quote the statistic that Afro-American (an ethnic group in the U.S. and not inclusive of all people of color) constitutes less than 15% of the population but accounts for over 50% of criminal convictions and see how fast you are branded "RACIST".


What's the context?

If you're using that statistic to 'prove' that blacks are inherently more violent than whites then yes, you're going to be branded a racist.

If you're simply stating it as a fact and legitimately looking for answers (instead of say, telling someone that the only way to solve this is by sending heavily-armed policemen into the neighborhoods and 'cleaning up all the trash'), then you might be able to get a discussion going.

quote:

Express support for the idea of a moratorium on Muslim immigration until a protocol for verifying they have no terrorist ties and see how fast you are branded a "RACIST". (Even though Muslim is a religion and not a race or ethnic group.)


Who exactly did you have this argument with?
There are already protocols in place for verifying terrorist ties.

quote:

Express a concern that the U.S. southern border needs to be secured against illegal border crossings to prevent criminals from entering and cut out the major source of bodies for human trafficking and you will be branded "RACIST". (Even though "Hispanic" is an ethnic group of mostly Caucasian racial types.)


It's really hard to argue against straw men like this, but I really can't imagine people actively defending illegal immigration, especially if the illegals are wanted for other crimes or human trafficking.

quote:

The first step in healing is listening and not screaming epithets at anyone who disagrees with you. i.e. the fringe that thinks "white male" automatically means they are an evil rapist just waiting for opportunity.


I would say that before that, you need to stop building straw men and actually listen to what the other side is saying. But all that this little list of perceived flaws shows me is that you're more comfortable hating an empty stereotype while ignoring what people are actually saying.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: How will the US heal itself? - 11/9/2016 10:33:46 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
You obviously don't live here. The racism was rampant before Trump even stepped onto the scene. That bad cop thing...


The election of a black president undoubtedly stirred it up (I would also say that the situation in Europe also helped legitimize fascism all over the world through the internet), but Trump tapped into it and helped it to grow.

Racism never really goes away... it just becomes more or less socially acceptable to act on it.

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: How will the US heal itself? - 12/21/2016 9:13:21 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I haven't seen much that would indicate America WANTS to be healed.

So for now, we suffer.

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: How will the US heal itself? - 12/21/2016 10:26:49 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji
Honestly, let's be really honest. The people causing riots at political events were leftists. Not once did you hear Hillary or Bernie tell them to stop. Trump didn't campaign on hate, stupidity and ignorance, Hillary, along with the MSM said he did so the ignorant accepted that twist. Obama had absolutely no credentials to be president, at the time of his first election he flat out said Hillary was incompetent and if Trump agreed, who can blame him. Not once did you hear Hillary complain that her operatives were providing her debate questions.

You're projecting.


Is it really so inconceivable that someone could simply listen to Trump speak and walk away convinced of his hate, stupidity or ignorance? Why must everyone who doesn't like Trump be incapable of forming their own opinions?

There were leftists antagonizing the crowds at Trump rallies... and there were Trump supporters spreading racism all over America as soon as he got the GOP nomination. The election was divisive... but it's not like the right is owning up to their nastiness any time soon.

Obama had a 10 year career in politics before he became president.

You do know that most of those "racist acts" committed right after the election turned out to be hoaxes. Death threats against Trump, riots in numerous cities for a week after the election. Yep we on the right have so much to own up to.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: How will the US heal itself? - 12/21/2016 10:41:59 AM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I haven't seen much that would indicate America WANTS to be healed.

So for now, we suffer.


You're absolutely right. We don't because we're not ready for it as things stand now. Too many fundamental differences of principles, opinions, etc.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: How will the US heal itself? - 12/21/2016 12:53:12 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
You obviously don't live here. The racism was rampant before Trump even stepped onto the scene. That bad cop thing...


The election of a black president undoubtedly stirred it up (I would also say that the situation in Europe also helped legitimize fascism all over the world through the internet), but Trump tapped into it and helped it to grow.

Racism never really goes away... it just becomes more or less socially acceptable to act on it.

Yep, because then racism was defined as disagreeing with Obama.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: How will the US heal itself? - 12/21/2016 12:56:57 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I haven't seen much that would indicate America WANTS to be healed.

So for now, we suffer.


You're absolutely right. We don't because we're not ready for it as things stand now. Too many fundamental differences of principles, opinions, etc.


Actually I disagree, America wants to be healed, but nobody wants to just surrender.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: How will the US heal itself? - 12/21/2016 1:25:05 PM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji
Honestly, let's be really honest. The people causing riots at political events were leftists. Not once did you hear Hillary or Bernie tell them to stop. Trump didn't campaign on hate, stupidity and ignorance, Hillary, along with the MSM said he did so the ignorant accepted that twist. Obama had absolutely no credentials to be president, at the time of his first election he flat out said Hillary was incompetent and if Trump agreed, who can blame him. Not once did you hear Hillary complain that her operatives were providing her debate questions.

You're projecting.


Is it really so inconceivable that someone could simply listen to Trump speak and walk away convinced of his hate, stupidity or ignorance? Why must everyone who doesn't like Trump be incapable of forming their own opinions?

There were leftists antagonizing the crowds at Trump rallies... and there were Trump supporters spreading racism all over America as soon as he got the GOP nomination. The election was divisive... but it's not like the right is owning up to their nastiness any time soon.

Obama had a 10 year career in politics before he became president.

You do know that most of those "racist acts" committed right after the election turned out to be hoaxes. Death threats against Trump, riots in numerous cities for a week after the election. Yep we on the right have so much to own up to.


It must be really wonderful to not just miss the point every single time, but also feel free to make up whatever crazy stories make you feel good about yourself and then assume that anyone who doesn't know what you're talking about is simply uninformed.

Most people wouldn't be so dishonest or at least feel compelled to provide sources to back up such wild claims, but you don't have any reservations.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: How will the US heal itself? - 12/21/2016 1:28:59 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

I don't know.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: How will the US heal itself? - 12/21/2016 1:59:56 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji
Honestly, let's be really honest. The people causing riots at political events were leftists. Not once did you hear Hillary or Bernie tell them to stop. Trump didn't campaign on hate, stupidity and ignorance, Hillary, along with the MSM said he did so the ignorant accepted that twist. Obama had absolutely no credentials to be president, at the time of his first election he flat out said Hillary was incompetent and if Trump agreed, who can blame him. Not once did you hear Hillary complain that her operatives were providing her debate questions.

You're projecting.


Is it really so inconceivable that someone could simply listen to Trump speak and walk away convinced of his hate, stupidity or ignorance? Why must everyone who doesn't like Trump be incapable of forming their own opinions?

There were leftists antagonizing the crowds at Trump rallies... and there were Trump supporters spreading racism all over America as soon as he got the GOP nomination. The election was divisive... but it's not like the right is owning up to their nastiness any time soon.

Obama had a 10 year career in politics before he became president.

You do know that most of those "racist acts" committed right after the election turned out to be hoaxes. Death threats against Trump, riots in numerous cities for a week after the election. Yep we on the right have so much to own up to.


It must be really wonderful to not just miss the point every single time, but also feel free to make up whatever crazy stories make you feel good about yourself and then assume that anyone who doesn't know what you're talking about is simply uninformed.

Most people wouldn't be so dishonest or at least feel compelled to provide sources to back up such wild claims, but you don't have any reservations.

Again you must not watch the news.
I didn't notice any cites that there were numerous racist incidents, but you agree with that so it is reasonable.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 12/21/2016 2:03:54 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: How will the US heal itself? - 12/21/2016 2:51:32 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I haven't seen much that would indicate America WANTS to be healed.

So for now, we suffer.

We'll eventually get it right after we've tried everything else.

K.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: How will the US heal itself? - 12/21/2016 2:55:11 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

I don't know.

I'm there with ya.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: How will the US heal itself? - 12/21/2016 3:16:36 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I haven't seen much that would indicate America WANTS to be healed.

So for now, we suffer.


You're absolutely right. We don't because we're not ready for it as things stand now. Too many fundamental differences of principles, opinions, etc.


Actually I disagree, America wants to be healed, but nobody wants to just surrender.


What makes you think that America wants to be healed? I think everyone is enjoying the upheaval.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: How will the US heal itself? - 12/21/2016 3:23:24 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I haven't seen much that would indicate America WANTS to be healed.

So for now, we suffer.


You're absolutely right. We don't because we're not ready for it as things stand now. Too many fundamental differences of principles, opinions, etc.


Actually I disagree, America wants to be healed, but nobody wants to just surrender.


What makes you think that America wants to be healed? I think everyone is enjoying the upheaval.


No, they are not.

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: How will the US heal itself? - 12/21/2016 3:53:31 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I haven't seen much that would indicate America WANTS to be healed.

So for now, we suffer.


You're absolutely right. We don't because we're not ready for it as things stand now. Too many fundamental differences of principles, opinions, etc.


Actually I disagree, America wants to be healed, but nobody wants to just surrender.


What makes you think that America wants to be healed? I think everyone is enjoying the upheaval.


Many are, but many of us aren't. Unfortunately too many people want total victory. That isn't possible. Were do you go from death threats against electors? And did you notice how many people insisted that the people doing that were in no way breaking the law?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: How will the US heal itself? - 12/21/2016 3:55:34 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I haven't seen much that would indicate America WANTS to be healed.

So for now, we suffer.


You're absolutely right. We don't because we're not ready for it as things stand now. Too many fundamental differences of principles, opinions, etc.


Actually I disagree, America wants to be healed, but nobody wants to just surrender.


What makes you think that America wants to be healed? I think everyone is enjoying the upheaval.


No, they are not.

Not everyone but people on both ends of the spectrum think that upheaval and chaos will led to what they want.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 140
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