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RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 4:23:52 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Of course, ignorant people like you will always..."

Boy that made your point ! Touche'. Is that the best you can do ?

I will say this, I know the difference between science ans scifi, between a pipe dream and what is possible. I am also aware that technology in some cases has gone backwards. We have to buy rockets from Russia. Can't make them here. Whatever products still built here are fraught with recalls and defects. And plus half the parts come from overseas because we can't even make a fuel injector for a car engine. Can't hold tolerances. Do you realize that when cars were really made right and tuned up right and running perfectly you could not tell if the catalytic was working by the exhaust. Now they have to detune them and leave some hydrocarbons and O2 to keep the cat lit And if you get it to run right the ECM wiil detect the see amount of O2 before and after the cat and throw a code.

But the automakers supported all these regulations. As soon as they could comply cheaply the regulations effectively made it harder for any upstarts in the business, at least with ICE powered cars.

Electricity generation and industry certainly trump autos for emissions.

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions

Actually that chart shows electricity by itself is more than transportation and I am assuming that "transportation" includes diesel trucks and trains

If you want enough solar cells to generate electricity to run this country the only place they could possibly be built is in China. So let's just send them ALL the rest of our money and be done with it.

And I am ignorant because I won't "believe in" some star Trek bullshit.
Yeah right.

T^T

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 4:33:42 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"but then you never know..."

Just what do you think nanotechnology is ? If it was anywhere near viable yet it would be more than gleatin molecules in cancer cells. They would be directly attacking the tors on a cellular level. Now you want to take it down to the molecular, no actually atomic level ?

T^T


Yes, I will personally do this tomorrow.
No, actually the day after tomorrow because I have some stuff to do for my other job.

This is what I'm saying.

But actually, nanotechnology is only 3 to 6 atoms across.

< Message edited by heavyblinker -- 1/3/2017 4:36:07 AM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 4:50:09 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

I think that taking all the oil out of the earth and burning it has made the earth weigh less (less mass) so our gravity has changed slightly and moved us slightly closer to the sun.

I used to think you were ignorant. Now I KNOW you are.

You didn't pass 8th grade science did you?

_____________________________

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Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 5:01:17 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Of course, ignorant people like you will always..."

Boy that made your point ! Touche'. Is that the best you can do ?

I will say this, I know the difference between science ans scifi, between a pipe dream and what is possible. I am also aware that technology in some cases has gone backwards. We have to buy rockets from Russia. Can't make them here. Whatever products still built here are fraught with recalls and defects. And plus half the parts come from overseas because we can't even make a fuel injector for a car engine. Can't hold tolerances. Do you realize that when cars were really made right and tuned up right and running perfectly you could not tell if the catalytic was working by the exhaust. Now they have to detune them and leave some hydrocarbons and O2 to keep the cat lit And if you get it to run right the ECM wiil detect the see amount of O2 before and after the cat and throw a code.

But the automakers supported all these regulations. As soon as they could comply cheaply the regulations effectively made it harder for any upstarts in the business, at least with ICE powered cars.

Electricity generation and industry certainly trump autos for emissions.

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions

Actually that chart shows electricity by itself is more than transportation and I am assuming that "transportation" includes diesel trucks and trains

If you want enough solar cells to generate electricity to run this country the only place they could possibly be built is in China. So let's just send them ALL the rest of our money and be done with it.

And I am ignorant because I won't "believe in" some star Trek bullshit.
Yeah right.

T^T


What does all of this even have to do with nanotechnology?

So the US is falling behind in rockets and automakers are supporting regulations and solar cells are being made in China... SO WHAT??? How does any of this shit have any bearing whatsoever on the nanotech industry? Who gives a fuck if the US is falling behind? So technological development can only occur if the US does it? It's like you just have a single program in your head and you need to go back to it because it's all you know how to say. It doesn't matter if China or India or Japan or Korea or some joint effort takes the initiative here. What matters is that we avoid fucking things up long enough to make sure it can happen.

And you seem to have absolutely no concept of how technological progress works-- 80 years of exponential growth will lead to unimaginable discoveries and advancements, provided that civilization remains intact enough to support it. The solution doesn't HAVE to be nanotechnology-- it could be anything. But the thing about global warming is that eventually all of this denialist bullshit is going to have to go away and there will be real incentives to fix it. We're not talking about Beta vs. VHS here... it's not about the quality of your home viewing experience, it's about civilization as we know it. Nobody is going to allow people to sit on solutions and argue about who gets credit or how to market it or if it's even necessary when it becomes glaringly obvious that civilization is about to collapse.

For perspective, 80 years ago the human race had just rung in 1937. Do you think that in 1937, people like you and me could have predicted the Internet? Cell phones? What do you think someone like you would have thought about something as near-future as space flight in 1937? I bet you would have even laughed at the idea of nuclear weapons.

It is NOT even a little bit unrealistic to say that things that are actually being developed today will be unimaginably more advanced in 2096. It is not unrealistic to say that technology will even yield unexpected discoveries that could provide even better solutions. I'm really hoping that we can avoid total collapse despite nightmare scenarios like a Trump presidency... but it's definitely terrifying to think about what could happen in the next 4 years. At least in the likely event that he completely crashes the economy, there's a chance that emissions will decrease for a while.

< Message edited by heavyblinker -- 1/3/2017 5:08:15 AM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 5:13:20 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


Incidental gravitational force would be lessened by one or the other body in question losing mass, not increased. The sun loses more mass in a second than the earth does in a million years.
But in any case the reason why the earth and sun and earth and moon and all the planets are moving farther apart is due to transfer of angular momentum. It's a tiny amount every thousand years, but there it is.

The universe is expanding at 68 kms/sec. or a little over 42 miles/sec. or about 150,000 mph. May not say much for our little neighborhood but that's pretty fast.

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(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 5:18:43 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix
My brother (5 years older than me, retired, far too much time on his hands) is a bit of a research nerd and he has "proof" that the entire thing is cyclical.

He can cite all kinds of sun spot shit, historical this that and the other....clay layers and all kinds of other cycles....


Can he prove that CO2 stops being a heat-trapping molecule simply because it is being emitted by humans?
Because that is pretty much the only way you can prove that the current warming is not caused by humans.

While the heating and the cooling of the planet is and has been cyclical, to the extent man since the indust. rev. is exacerbating the problem, fucking with the carbon cycle...yes but the problem really lies in the ease with which a profit is made off selling fossil fuels to the existing small user and community heat energy regime.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 5:20:28 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

I think that taking all the oil out of the earth and burning it has made the earth weigh less (less mass) so our gravity has changed slightly and moved us slightly closer to the sun.


Fossil fuels (solid, liquid) = carbon C

burning is oxidising with oxygen O2

C+O2 = CO2

although a gas, no mass lost

gas has mass too

children learn these things at school (here)

no loss of mass = no change of earth circuit "because" of it





Bravo. To the extent whatever was on earth or in the atmosphere when [we] got here...is still here. All we do is change its form.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to blnymph)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 5:43:08 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

I think that taking all the oil out of the earth and burning it has made the earth weigh less (less mass) so our gravity has changed slightly and moved us slightly closer to the sun.

I used to think you were ignorant. Now I KNOW you are.

You didn't pass 8th grade science did you?


Ummmm I think it must have been a joke.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 5:46:06 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix
My brother (5 years older than me, retired, far too much time on his hands) is a bit of a research nerd and he has "proof" that the entire thing is cyclical.

He can cite all kinds of sun spot shit, historical this that and the other....clay layers and all kinds of other cycles....


Can he prove that CO2 stops being a heat-trapping molecule simply because it is being emitted by humans?
Because that is pretty much the only way you can prove that the current warming is not caused by humans.

While the heating and the cooling of the planet is and has been cyclical, to the extent man since the indust. rev. is exacerbating the problem, fucking with the carbon cycle...yes but the problem really lies in the ease with which a profit is made off selling fossil fuels to the existing small user and community heat energy regime.


Well, yeah... obviously the Earth heats and cools all the time. That's why a trend needs to persist for at least 30 years before it can be considered a climatic change.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 5:48:07 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I wonder what better way than a question mark to indicate a question? If we can find one, that might be promising, but otherwise it is tommie doing a routine felchgobble from inside the compound.

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(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 6:13:54 AM   
blnymph


Posts: 1598
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"End large scale deforestation, leave old forests untouched, plant new ones. "

While I am all for that, 70 % of the O2 comes from the oceans. A step in the right direction, but only a drop in the bucket. Also, what they should figure out how to do is irrigate the deserts and make them arable. Hey, they could use water from the ocean. ...


A step, indeed, and just one step of more steps needed. A step still needing to be taken.

Irrigating deserts with salt water only turns a desert into a salt desert.
Inhabitable, any soil spoilt with salt forever. Like the great salt lake in Utah, the Turkana basin in E Africa, the Atacama in S America. For irrigating deserts you need fresh water - where there is none.

Btw this is what Gaddafi did with Lybian petro dollars by hi-tech based pumping deep water resources (almost) dry. There were new green areas in the Sahara. But when pumping stopped either because there was no more water coming or after Gaddafi got killed, dry desert came back within months. Fossile water resources wasted, short term effect. So under present condition it is no good idea.

"Salt water irrigation", however, is likely to happen with all our present low shore regions on a global scale if sea level rises like it does. Solid habitable ground lost and gone is more likely than new ground made available.


(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 6:19:17 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

I think that taking all the oil out of the earth and burning it has made the earth weigh less (less mass) so our gravity has changed slightly and moved us slightly closer to the sun.

I used to think you were ignorant. Now I KNOW you are.

You didn't pass 8th grade science did you?

Or basic physics. I hope she's just messing with you.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 6:20:24 AM   
blnymph


Posts: 1598
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


Well, yeah... obviously the Earth heats and cools all the time. That's why a trend needs to persist for at least 30 years before it can be considered a climatic change.


As I tried to show you above the trend is already recorded for decades, in some regions for centuries, and the peak level we have already is at a maximum for millenia. Right now. So we can consider it just that, can't we?

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 6:20:54 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

pleeeeeeease not another global warming/climate change/whatever thread!!

It balances out the six daily :"oh no! feminists!" threads and the six daily "Run! Moooslems!" threads

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 6:36:28 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"End large scale deforestation, leave old forests untouched, plant new ones. "

While I am all for that, 70 % of the O2 comes from the oceans. A step in the right direction, but only a drop in the bucket. Also, what they should figure out how to do is irrigate the deserts and make them arable. Hey, they could use water from the ocean. ...


A step, indeed, and just one step of more steps needed. A step still needing to be taken.

Irrigating deserts with salt water only turns a desert into a salt desert.
Inhabitable, any soil spoilt with salt forever. Like the great salt lake in Utah, the Turkana basin in E Africa, the Atacama in S America. For irrigating deserts you need fresh water - where there is none.

Btw this is what Gaddafi did with Lybian petro dollars by hi-tech based pumping deep water resources (almost) dry. There were new green areas in the Sahara. But when pumping stopped either because there was no more water coming or after Gaddafi got killed, dry desert came back within months. Fossile water resources wasted, short term effect. So under present condition it is no good idea.

"Salt water irrigation", however, is likely to happen with all our present low shore regions on a global scale if sea level rises like it does. Solid habitable ground lost and gone is more likely than new ground made available.





See i was just gonna say he needed to the sarcasm font..
You think he was being serious?
That never occured to me.
I must need a nap


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(in reply to blnymph)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 6:39:10 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

In case you never heard of Ötzi look here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi

Wow! Really fascinating. Thank you for sharing.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to blnymph)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 7:08:19 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

I think that taking all the oil out of the earth and burning it has made the earth weigh less (less mass) so our gravity has changed slightly and moved us slightly closer to the sun.

I used to think you were ignorant. Now I KNOW you are.

You didn't pass 8th grade science did you?

Or basic physics. I hope she's just messing with you.

Remarkable to some ignorata perhaps but the earth is actually closer to the sun in January than in June. Oh, no!

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 7:11:32 AM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11234
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

In case you never heard of Ötzi look here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi

Wow! Really fascinating. Thank you for sharing.


Wasn't Otzi a relic from the last ice age, proving that climate naturally cycles

Thanks goldilocks, for pointing that out for us

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 7:27:51 AM   
blnymph


Posts: 1598
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

In case you never heard of Ötzi look here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi

Wow! Really fascinating. Thank you for sharing.


Wasn't Otzi a relic from the last ice age, proving that climate naturally cycles

Thanks goldilocks, for pointing that out for us

No.
End of last glacial maximum
c. 18 000 years ago (Würm/Weichsel glacial in Europe)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Glacial_Maximum

Ötzi
c. 5 000 years ago

He had grains of wheat (Einkorn) in his stomach as part of his last meals before he died. So the valleys must have been ice-free and arable.

So if a proof of whatever climate cycles, certainly not of that one.

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Who is ready for some global warming? - 1/3/2017 7:28:14 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
Well, yeah... obviously the Earth heats and cools all the time. That's why a trend needs to persist for at least 30 years before it can be considered a climatic change.


As I tried to show you above the trend is already recorded for decades, in some regions for centuries, and the peak level we have already is at a maximum for millenia. Right now. So we can consider it just that, can't we?


I don't think you were addressing me when you wrote that.

It is possible to acknowledge the existence of natural cycles without leaping to the conclusion that one of them is driving the current warming trend.

(in reply to blnymph)
Profile   Post #: 60
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