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Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 6:09:50 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		This is probably one of those questions that will make some of the men say things like: "Christ! What do women want, anyway"? and throw things at the wall, perhaps, in frustration - but here I go anyway...asking my stupid question.

Question:Female submissives and slaves - and males submissives and slaves as well: How important is it to you that your partner be a nice person to you, and not exude a "tough" image, when they are not scening with you? (if the scene includes them not being so nice, for whatever reason)? 
 
I ask because I've received the impression from reading some posts lately, that many females, especially who identify as submissives and slaves, as well as some male submissives and slaves, are genuinely seeking the all-around "tough guy" (or gal) (possibly described as an A__ole) type of personality, not just someone who exudes a healthy leadership kind of character, and is Dominant.
 
Please don't flame this thread (okay)? It's just a question, and a real one. Thanks.

For some people, exuding a tough guy image is really important to them on a 24-7 basis. And I do realize this really is part of some people's kink. And that is fine, really (it's not my relationship, it theirs). I mean they want some guy who looks like if you mess with Him he just might rip you to shreds and not think twice. I'll admit there are aspects to this that I do find comforting (as long as I am not consistently on the receiving end of it, I guess). It's a preference. I do want someone tough, but mentally tough, too, not simply someone who simply exudes a genuinely threatening persona to all humans in general, I guess.

I am probably being as clear as mud (but am trying, really to be clear).

Personally, I love the quiet confidence I guess what I qualify as "my kind of Dominant" can exude. I'd know if I "crossed a line" I'd hear about it, but they are not swaggerring and calling me "my bitch" and pummeling my face 24/7. They aren't saying things like: "Hey bitch, where's my coffee?" - all the time. When I fantasize about a great Dominant, they do definitely expect me to comply with their wishes, but I guess they are aren't necessarlily always crude about it (though sometimes would be okay I guess).

There's no question, though, that they are the ones in control. I might even be afraid of them, at times. They occasionally, if they ever do say those crude things, want to do tender things too, like take me to dinner or just cuddle and hold me. And yes, I do realize it's not all about Me, but about Him, for anyone who is wondering.

I am not dogging people who want a really tough all-the-time kinda guy (or gal) - but, I guess I prefer it if I know that someone can exude some real sensitivity, and they direct it my way once in awhile, if not more often than that. But I think not all people feel this way, and I am not saying either is better, just a matter of taste.
 
I think I may have Switch tendencies (but that is not the reason I think I feel the way I do about this) - and I am concluding I'd probably also prefer a definitely hetero male, but sensitive male submissive - somebody who can do "give and take", not just all "take" and not all "give", either. Again, there are people seeking a complete abject slave boy 24-7, who cowers all the time in fear of their very presence, but I suppose that is a matter of taste as well. I imagine with someone like that, we might have a hard time getting through a restaurant dinner out in public. 

**So, what are your thoughts, ladies? And from the men too...if anyone wants to reply to this thread, I'd be really interested in hearing from anyone out there.

*I am taking for granted here, I suppose, that most Dominant men and Masters want a compliant, sweet girl, so I guess this question is for submissives and slaves - but I am including males submissives as well as Dominant men (if they want to answer)- even if some assume most male submissives are looking for a _itch (I think this might be a generalization about male submissives).

Thanks for any replies, and for reading this post.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/25/2006 6:54:13 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson
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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 6:22:06 AM   
MstrJason1mina


Posts: 74
Joined: 10/7/2004
Status: offline 		Hi there,

I think its a great question that will cause many to think and ponder.My Master is my husband and is a nice guy.He is that all american college graduate Eagle Scout volunteering healthy young man who married his high school sweetheart. his first wife the high school sweetheart burned him emotionally bad.Using him to get out of a bad family life in a small town in the midwest.This heartache this destruction brought changes.These changes involved him discovering He is worth more than that pain and the lack of love given. He also learned He enjoyed reciving and giving pleasure,humiliation ,and found BDSM.Without his heart being broken and divorced from his first wife who knows how long or if he ever would have found BDSM. He is a nice guy that has not finished last. It took Him some time but he has a good job,a good house,great kids and good slace/wife. His life is so good he even has 2 more part time submissives. He lives out the typical male fantasy of being in bed with 2 women.So yes some good guys do finish first.Im a proud slave what can i say.

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 6:27:38 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks so much for the reply. I am glad you found eachother, and that you are happy.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to MstrJason1mina)
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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 6:33:57 AM   
zumala


Posts: 1121
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline 		Personally, I have never had any use for assholes, be they dominant or otherwise.  Abuse to me, is something a twisted and deluded person dishes out.  A dominant, in my opinion, is someone who honestly has things under control rather than pretending to with way too much testosterone induced posturing.
 
I think there are qualities in a male in general that I admire that would be applied to my ideal of a dominant as well.  Intelligence, wisdom (not the same thing as intelligence), exudes a quiet auora of control, leadership skills, self-control, imagination, ability to admit mistakes, willing and wishing to hear opinions and advice from another adult in a committed relationship with him, able to make decisions, in possession of an adventerous spirit (likes to try new things), and in possession of a sense of humor.
 
Note the absence of unnecessary physical force or verbal abuse.  Those things just make a jackass in my opinion, not a dom. 
 
zuma

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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 6:38:29 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Me too, zumala. Thnaks for the reply!

I do think for some, it is a fine line, though, and they think girls (or men) like that image and reality. And some do like that, so it makes it hard for them to discern, maybe, when to act tough and when to be a little more tender. I guess it depends on th submissive or slave. But - I am seeing posts from girls (mostly) who genuinely believe this is great "Dominant" behavior - and if they appreciate it, fine.
I wouldn't - and get the feeling from reading some posts that they actually don't like it much, but think they should like it or else they are not a "real submissive" or something.
- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/25/2006 6:56:33 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 6:40:43 AM   
LL1aintbehavin


Posts: 104
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		Susan.
This is a great topic to think on.  i think many may see the "bad boy" as a Dominant or a Master personality type, but at times i see it as a bully.
Dominating another person can be done by a soft word, a look or by just getting to know what the other person knows.
Being verbally assualted and humiliated at all times is not something i would like in a 24/7 relationship, but i enjoy at times.
My Dom is a nice guy, with a loving heart and soul, but He is always in control of himself and me.
He is at times very kind, thoughtful and does little romantic things and makes me feel special and loved.
At times i am used ruffly and to His pleasure and will.  It is a mixture of everything mixed in.
There are times that i like tenderness and open and honest discussions on feelings and emotions, and i need honest and heart felt replies, not bad boy who cares attitude.
i think it is finding the mix that suits both people.
i hope this answered your question.
aintbehavin

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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 6:43:29 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I guess I appreciate humiliation, but I'd need it from someone I really respect. (I am sure you know what I mean).

- Susan 

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 6:52:22 AM   
Sunshine119


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
So many equate being a Dominant with being a bad ass.  "His Highness" is probably the nicest man I've ever met.  John Wayne is his model of being a man (lol).  He treats me as a queen, loves me to death and has manners that most men have left far behind.  He dominates all aspects of his (and my) life without effort or any nastiness.

On the other hand, he keeps me busy taking care of him, has rituals he has established for our daily lives and can use me hard and well while sceneing.  He truly is a boy scout.  I've never been attracted to "bad boys", though I know many women are.  I don't understand it, but many of my female friends are always chasing guys that you know are going to smash them to pieces once they've used them up. I don't understand that desire at all. 




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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 6:57:24 AM   
Cloudz


Posts: 836
Joined: 9/13/2005
Status: offline 		Susan,

I know I don't "qualify" to answer...but I had to say you had the best opening line! I choked on my coffee, but it was great. I could just see men everywhere reading it and throwing something at the wall! On a personal note, I have no need for one dimensional people on ANY level - submissive or strore clerk. Having said that - some people are assholes becasue they simply do not know how to be anything else. To them I give the pity and to the powers that be, I give the gratidtude that I do not have to be him/her. <Backing quietly out of the thread>

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Enjoy the Journey,
~Cloudz

"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."


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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 6:58:00 AM   
stanton


Posts: 41
Status: offline 		There's no question, though, that they are the ones in control. I might even be afraid of them, at times. They occasionally, if they ever do say those crude things, want to do tender things too, like take me to dinner or just cuddle and hold me. And yes, I do realize it's not all about Me, but about Him, for anyone who is wondering
------
You deserve it!
Yes I am a nice guy type and get taken advantage of.

I am sure I will find the right woman someday who can share a good life with a decent man who loves her. Bet you will be found by one who can love you for who you are too!

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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 6:59:03 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Oh I am a big fan of nice manners. I can reciprocate on that, too. I don't see it as demeaning for someone to open a car door for me, or offer to carry a heavy package (besides, I already know I can lift an over 100 poud sofa, and about 25 pounds of laundry on my own, hehe). It's the thought from them that makes my heart melt.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Sunshine119)
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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 7:08:44 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I have to agree with most of the other's.  A dominant is just that a gentleman.  You don't have to intimidate someone to win their submission.  You just have to be honest, kind and earn their respect.  If a dominant does that they will have a submissive for life rather than a few play sessions. 
I'd have to say, anyone who does try to control b being a tough guy is nothing but an abuser.
Though, I do believe a male sub would have an entirely different outlook on your question as good fem doms are so hard to find.
After you look for so many year's one tends to lower their standards.

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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 7:08:47 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I will answer as one of those women who has always been attracted to the "Bad Boys" of the world. The biker types that look like they might eat you for breakfast. I am attracted to that "tough" exterior. But I also learned a long, long time ago that there are "bad boys" and then there are assholes. "Asshole" is not a quality that I find appealing.

Assholes are the ones that do the testosterone posturing. They walk through life always trying to prove how tough they are. It has been in my experience that these men are really trying to prove it to themselves. It has also been in my experience that men who are really tough....don't have to talk about it, show it outwardly...or prove it at every turn.

There is something though, about being with a man of hard exterior and knowing that you are the one he trusts enough to show his soft side to. Knowing that the hand that is softly stroking your cheek could just as easily crush you if that is what he wanted to do....but knowing that he never would.

The "bad boys" that I am attracted to are the friendly and outgoing type. They light up a room and can have conversation with anyone.  They are confident in who they are and it seems to drip from their pores. They are well respected because they have shown through action that they are worthy of that respect...not because they intimidate those around them. They have no need to speak to you in a degrading manner. No need to make you feel small so they themselves can feel big. They are capable of compassion, empathy...don't hesitate to help another...and not too proud to admit their mistakes. They have strong morals and values.

I don't know why anyone would be attracted to the "asshole" type of "bad boy". Obviously there is some attraction as they seem to have a never ending line of women who are anxiously awaiting their turn to volunteer to be their victim. But personally, I don't get it.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 7:11:33 AM   
LiliesDoGrow


Posts: 106
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline 		You don't pull any punches with your great threads Susan.

For me, the kinder a man is, the stronger he seems in my eyes, which means that he probably has his life in order and is ready to be open for a give and take relationship. He doesn't need to prove anything to anyone. He just is. Seeing a guy for example volunteering to take special needs kids to a fair makes me melt. The guy who picks fights at a bar makes me sick.

Posturing blowhards are amusing, but not attractive. Then again, kind nice men can also deliver the harshest of emotional blows if they turn out to be Attila the Hun in nice guys clothing.

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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 7:13:16 AM   
KennelDeSade2


Posts: 210
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
This is probably one of those questions that will make some of the men say things like: "Christ! What do women want, anyway"? and throw things at the wall, perhaps, in frustration - but here I go anyway...asking my stupid question.
Susan


Very perceptive, as always.

Worse yet, after throwing the entire stock of glass and all other breakables at the wall, not only can I not give you the answer . . . .I can't even suggest how to begin to define how "winners and losers" might be defined in a meaningful way, in this context.  Even tho it's just as clear that those are the terms that people use when talking about the concept.

The snap answer to your question would be a resounding yes. . . But.  Given the way you framed the question, I'd say that the "winners" are no more happy than the losers.


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Rules? Just one: I say, she does.
Everything else, is just details.

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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 7:14:49 AM   
Taylore


Posts: 121
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Question:Female submissives and slaves - and males submissives and slaves as well: How important is it to you that your partner be a nice person to you, and not exude a "tough" image, when they are not scening with you? (if the scene includes them not being so nice, for whatever reason)? 

It is extremely important to this slave that Master ALWAYS be himself; no matter what we are doing.
I would not say that Master 'excludes' a tough image; however he is very reserved almost to the point of being unemotional; in addition to this though, I have found that he has a heart of gold and is quite the softie when it comes to others who need help. I find the contradiction within him to be quite attractive.

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Taylore

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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 7:22:00 AM   
Sunshine119


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Taylore

It is extremely important to this slave that Master ALWAYS be himself; no matter what we are doing.
I would not say that Master 'excludes' a tough image; however he is very reserved almost to the point of being unemotional; in addition to this though, I have found that he has a heart of gold and is quite the softie when it comes to others who need help. I find the contradiction within him to be quite attractive.


So....are you saying that your Master is unemotional with you but nice to other people?  I'm happy it works for you, I'm not sure I would want to live in that kind of relationship.  I need him to be nice to me too!


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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 7:24:19 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
*I am taking for granted here, I suppose, that most Dominant men and Masters want a compliant, sweet girl,


This has not been my experience. At least the Dominants that I have known have wanted a woman with some fire and spirit....not the sweet, prissy type. I guess it really is to each their own.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 7:24:23 AM   
Taylore


Posts: 121
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

So....are you saying that your Master is unemotional with you but nice to other people?  I'm happy it works for you, I'm not sure I would want to live in that kind of relationship.  I need him to be nice to me too!

No. If you read what I said, you will notice that I stressed that it was important for Master to ALWAYS be himself.
 
I will point out though that our relationship is such that he may treat me in any such manner as he see's approiate, as long as it does not breach the lines we talked of before I became his. I have no issues with him being unemotional at all times. I did not enter this relationship looking for sweet-nothings from him. I am here to serve him; nothing more and nothing less.
And yes, it does work for the both of us.

< Message edited by Taylore -- 7/25/2006 7:27:31 AM >

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RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? - 7/25/2006 7:27:37 AM   
dincubus


Posts: 231
Joined: 10/22/2005
From: South Dakota
Status: offline 		I have found, in my experiences, primarily in the nilla world.. that nice guys do finish last. while there has been one.. yes count em one.. person who didnt try to screw me over. In the dating and one failed marriage that i have had, i did nothing more than try to make sure that the other party was satisified. It got me nothing more than heartache and a whole load of mental abuse.
I wish i could say  more, but if i did it would sound as if i am bitter and still hurting from what had happened. I do have to say this though, my sub, who first was my girlfriend, has been nothing short of a beacon in the never ending storm that my life has been. She is wonderful and takes way too much of my moodiness

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