RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap

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Aylee -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/12/2017 9:13:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: respectmen Cite me one study that honestly represents the hours, education, work experience, the type of work etc in their so called facts. I have just cited you a book that is essential and elementary reading for anyone who wishes to educate themselves about gender issues. [sip] So read the cited work and then get back to me. No it's a book that spouts propaganda from closeted neo-liberals. Living in the real world would help understand the issues. But, it would have to be done with a truly open mind, which I doubt is practicle[sic] for someone with a garbage PhDs in woman's studies or sociology. And you know this how Mr Super Intellectual? Have you read the book? Do you know who the author is? Are you familiar with the subject matter? The answers to all the questions is a resounding NO. Yet you have just arrogantly dismissed a complete book on biology by a specialist in the subject without either reading it or knowing what it is about. And you have the nerve to criticise others as lacking "a truly open mind" ......! FYI "Neo-liberalism" is an economic philosophy that promotes free markets and free trade. Describing a book about biology as "propaganda from closeted neo-liberals" tells us you haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about. And learn to use a spell check. It will help hide the rampant ignorance that permeates your posts. Another celebration of ignorance and anti-intellectual bigotry by one of our resident looney RWNJs .... Nobody cares about a 30 year old book that claims all women are victims and oppressed. It is drek. It was drek when she wrote it. The author dismisses the validity of all the studies she doesn't agree with. There are better books about women, their bodies, their health, and so forth. I have read them. Mismeasure of Women: Why Women Are Not the Better Sex, the Inferior Sex, or the Opposite Sex. The Meanings of Sex Difference in the Middle Ages: Medicine, Science, and Culture (Cambridge Studies in the History of Medicine) Nature's Body: Gender In The Making Of Modern Science.

tamaka -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/12/2017 9:20:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: respectmen Cite me one study that honestly represents the hours, education, work experience, the type of work etc in their so called facts. I have just cited you a book that is essential and elementary reading for anyone who wishes to educate themselves about gender issues. I'll be happy to cite you heaps more after you have read that book. If you decline to read the cited book, there's not much point in citing further readings for your education is there? Coming from your base of knowledge about gender, which is pretty close to zero, it would be remiss of me to help you attempt to walk before you have mastered crawling. So read the cited work and then get back to me. No it's a book that spouts propaganda from closeted neo-liberals. Living in the real world would help understand the issues. But, it would have to be done with a truly open mind, which I doubt is practicle for someone with a garbage PhDs in woman's studies or sociology. She doesn't have a PhD in anything. She probably has an Associates at best.

stef -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/12/2017 9:30:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle I don't believe tamaka's boast either. Though it's possible she bought the 'degrees' on the Net for $10 each. Tardsocka probably got those "degrees" from Trump University.

tamaka -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/12/2017 9:32:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle I don't believe tamaka's boast either. Though it's possible she bought the 'degrees' on the Net for $10 each. Tardsocka probably got those "degrees" from Trump University. Where did you get yours from Stef?

Nnanji -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/12/2017 9:48:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Yes i did... i have 3 degrees and a gpa of 3.8 Interesting. In contrast, though I've never been to college, I do have the real world experience of having fought in three world wars. I don't believe tamaka's boast either. Though it's possible she bought the 'degrees' on the Net for $10 each. Wow! Little bitterness there.

Nnanji -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/12/2017 9:55:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: No it's a book that spouts propaganda from closeted neo-liberals. Living in the real world would help understand the issues. But, it would have to be done with a truly open mind, which I doubt is practicle for someone with a garbage PhDs in woman's studies or sociology. It's staggering - so many prejudices compressed into just three lines. Also fascinating, this belief that the less you've learned, the more you know. Hum, it's interesting to see your prejudged take on my emotional disposition. I'm not sure where you got the whole less you've learned thing. Obviously pulled it out of your ear. I have a graduate degree, I've also experienced the real world. I've also see the quality and results of an education in women's studies. I'm qualified to judge...not prejudge...on all three account. Are you? Also, I find it to be liberal BS to proscribe prejudgment. I find it helpful frequently. I prejudge what routes to take to the store given the time of day. I prejudge what clothes would be appropriate. I prejudge very many useful things. I wonder why you don't as well? Do you wonder through life totally absorbed in not making any prejudgments about how to manage your life?

Nnanji -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/12/2017 9:58:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: respectmen Cite me one study that honestly represents the hours, education, work experience, the type of work etc in their so called facts. I have just cited you a book that is essential and elementary reading for anyone who wishes to educate themselves about gender issues. [sip] So read the cited work and then get back to me. No it's a book that spouts propaganda from closeted neo-liberals. Living in the real world would help understand the issues. But, it would have to be done with a truly open mind, which I doubt is practicle[sic] for someone with a garbage PhDs in woman's studies or sociology. And you know this how Mr Super Intellectual? Have you read the book? Do you know who the author is? Are you familiar with the subject matter? The answers to all the questions is a resounding NO. Yet you have just arrogantly dismissed a complete book on biology by a specialist in the subject without either reading it or knowing what it is about. And you have the nerve to criticise others as lacking "a truly open mind" ......! FYI "Neo-liberalism" is an economic philosophy that promotes free markets and free trade. Describing a book about biology as "propaganda from closeted neo-liberals" tells us you haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about. And learn to use a spell check. It will help hide the rampant ignorance that permeates your posts. Another celebration of ignorance and anti-intellectual bigotry by one of our resident looney RWNJs .... Now you see, there's a shining example of your thought process. You don't know me at all and yet you assign to me those beliefs that will make you feel smart and superior. That's very...liberal...of you.

tweakabelle -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/12/2017 10:08:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee There are better books about women, their bodies, their health, and so forth. I have read them. There certainly are better books around. But the topic under discussion was not women's bodies, health etc but the myth of biological gender determinism and the sexual stereotyping enabled by that myth. At the time, I was trying to get people like RM and tamaka, neither of whom is ever likely to win a Nobel Prize, to understand that they were repeating myths that were disproven decades ago . Fausto-Sterling's book was written with precisely that aim in mind, and is easily accessed by a general reader, which is not always the case with the literature on these topics. So in this instance it is suitable. OTOH, some of the works you mention such as Londa Schiebinger's work are way over Rm's or tamaka's pay grade. It would be pointless recommending such works to people like rm or tamaka. Even in the highly unlikely event that they could be bothered reading them, such texts would go straight over their heads.

tamaka -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/12/2017 10:12:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee There are better books about women, their bodies, their health, and so forth. I have read them. There certainly are better books around. But the topic under discussion was not women's bodies, health etc but biological gender determinism and sexual stereotyping. But at the time, I was trying to get people like RM and tamaka, neither of whom is ever likely to win a Nobel Prize, to understand that they were repeating myths that were disproven decades ago . Fausto-Sterling's book was written with precisely that aim in mind, and is easily accessed by a general reader, which is not always the case. So in this instance it is suitable. OTOH, some of the works you mention such as Londa Schiebinger's work are way over Rm's or tamaka's pay grade. It would be pointless recommending such works to people like rm or tamaka. Even in the highly unlikely event that they could be bothered reading them, such texts would go straight over their heads. Lol.

tweakabelle -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/12/2017 10:16:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: No it's a book that spouts propaganda from closeted neo-liberals. Living in the real world would help understand the issues. But, it would have to be done with a truly open mind, which I doubt is practicle for someone with a garbage PhDs in woman's studies or sociology. It's staggering - so many prejudices compressed into just three lines. Also fascinating, this belief that the less you've learned, the more you know. Hum, it's interesting to see your prejudged take on my emotional disposition. I'm not sure where you got the whole less you've learned thing. Obviously pulled it out of your ear. I have a graduate degree, I've also experienced the real world. I've also see the quality and results of an education in women's studies. I'm qualified to judge...not prejudge...on all three account. Are you? Also, I find it to be liberal BS to proscribe prejudgment. I find it helpful frequently. I prejudge what routes to take to the store given the time of day. I prejudge what clothes would be appropriate. I prejudge very many useful things. I wonder why you don't as well? Do you wonder through life totally absorbed in not making any prejudgments about how to manage your life? You Sir are a moron. No one who describes a book about biology and gender as "propaganda from closeted neo-liberals" is qualified to make judgements in this area. People who describe books about biology and gender as "propaganda from closeted neo-liberals" simply don't know what they are talking about. Neo-liberalism is an economic philosophy and 'neo-liberal' describes a certain right wing free market economic position. It has no connection to gender and/or biology whatsoever. Nada. Niente. Rien. No one with even the most elementary familiarity with the subject matter would use language like that - because language like that is a certain indicator that the person talking doesn't know what they are talking about. Your own words prove your ignorance is only matched by your arrogance and bigotry.

tamaka -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/12/2017 10:38:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: No it's a book that spouts propaganda from closeted neo-liberals. Living in the real world would help understand the issues. But, it would have to be done with a truly open mind, which I doubt is practicle for someone with a garbage PhDs in woman's studies or sociology. It's staggering - so many prejudices compressed into just three lines. Also fascinating, this belief that the less you've learned, the more you know. Hum, it's interesting to see your prejudged take on my emotional disposition. I'm not sure where you got the whole less you've learned thing. Obviously pulled it out of your ear. I have a graduate degree, I've also experienced the real world. I've also see the quality and results of an education in women's studies. I'm qualified to judge...not prejudge...on all three account. Are you? Also, I find it to be liberal BS to proscribe prejudgment. I find it helpful frequently. I prejudge what routes to take to the store given the time of day. I prejudge what clothes would be appropriate. I prejudge very many useful things. I wonder why you don't as well? Do you wonder through life totally absorbed in not making any prejudgments about how to manage your life? You Sir are a moron. No one who describes a book about biology and gender as "propaganda from closeted neo-liberals" is qualified to make judgements in this area. People who describe books about biology and gender as "propaganda from closeted neo-liberals" simply don't know what they are talking about. Neo-liberalism is an economic philosophy and 'neo-liberal' describes a certain right wing free market economic position. It has no connection to gender and/or biology whatsoever. Nada. Niente. Rien. No one with even the most elementary familiarity with the subject matter would use language like that - because language like that is a certain indicator that the person talking doesn't know what they are talking about. Your own words prove your ignorance is only matched by your arrogance and bigotry. .... because nobody makes any money off of the stuff. You really aren't much of a thinker, are you.

Kirata -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/13/2017 12:43:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle the myth of biological gender determinism Evidence on the Biological Basis of Gender Identity According to a review article in Endocrine Practice, there is increasing evidence of a biological basis for gender identity . . . “This paper represents the first comprehensive review of the scientific evidence that gender identity is a biological phenomenon,” explains corresponding author Joshua D. Safer, MD, FACP. K.

PeonForHer -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/13/2017 1:23:31 AM)
Critique of that study, amongst many other things, here: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2016/05/what-gender-anyway

tweakabelle -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/13/2017 2:30:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle the myth of biological gender determinism Evidence on the Biological Basis of Gender Identity According to a review article in Endocrine Practice, there is increasing evidence of a biological basis for gender identity . . . “This paper represents the first comprehensive review of the scientific evidence that gender identity is a biological phenomenon,” explains corresponding author Joshua D. Safer, MD, FACP. K. Do you have the slightest idea how many thousand times that claim has been advanced? And not once has the claim withstood scrutiny. Each and every time the claim gets debunked. I have reached the point where I no longer investigate them because I am sick and tired of having my time wasted reaching the inevitable conclusion that the claim is bunkum. I have made this point to you before but it seems that it doesn't register. I hope I am not crediting you with more intelligence than you actually possess. So let me make it very clear: there is no basis for claims of biological gender determination. For such a claim to be sustainable it requires that you believe humans are capable of analysing human behaviour perfectly. One of the few things that just about everyone in the field of human behaviour agrees is that it is impossible for humans to analyse our own behaviour perfectly. Constructing perfect systems lies forever beyond human reach. This is just one very good reason for believing such a claim is impossible. There are many others. Especially if you agree with the sociology of knowledge, the view that all knowledge is a human invention. So please don't bother posting gibberish like that again unless you can solve the myriad of epistemological and other problems inherent in any claim of biological gender determination.

bounty44 -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/13/2017 8:38:23 AM)
a lengthy, but well worth reading essay on the topic: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-gender/

Kirata -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/13/2017 2:44:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Evidence on the Biological Basis of Gender Identity According to a review article in Endocrine Practice, there is increasing evidence of a biological basis for gender identity . . . “This paper represents the first comprehensive review of the scientific evidence that gender identity is a biological phenomenon,” explains corresponding author Joshua D. Safer, MD, FACP. let me make it very clear: there is no basis for claims of biological gender determination. For such a claim to be sustainable it requires that you believe humans are capable of analysing human behaviour perfectly. Anybody who starts a paragraph with a claim like that, and then defends it by invoking the impossibility of analyzing human behavior perfectly, should not be encouraged to harm herself further. K.

Aylee -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/13/2017 5:58:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Evidence on the Biological Basis of Gender Identity According to a review article in Endocrine Practice, there is increasing evidence of a biological basis for gender identity . . . “This paper represents the first comprehensive review of the scientific evidence that gender identity is a biological phenomenon,” explains corresponding author Joshua D. Safer, MD, FACP. let me make it very clear: there is no basis for claims of biological gender determination. For such a claim to be sustainable it requires that you believe humans are capable of analysing human behaviour perfectly. Anybody who starts a paragraph with a claim like that, and then defends it by invoking the impossibility of analyzing human behavior perfectly, should not be encouraged to harm herself further. K. No basis for biological gender determination. So no "gender gene"? So people cannot be born transgendered? Gender is all nurture and no nature?

tamaka -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/13/2017 6:21:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Evidence on the Biological Basis of Gender Identity According to a review article in Endocrine Practice, there is increasing evidence of a biological basis for gender identity . . . “This paper represents the first comprehensive review of the scientific evidence that gender identity is a biological phenomenon,” explains corresponding author Joshua D. Safer, MD, FACP. let me make it very clear: there is no basis for claims of biological gender determination. For such a claim to be sustainable it requires that you believe humans are capable of analysing human behaviour perfectly. Anybody who starts a paragraph with a claim like that, and then defends it by invoking the impossibility of analyzing human behavior perfectly, should not be encouraged to harm herself further. K. No basis for biological gender determination. So no "gender gene"? So people cannot be born transgendered? Gender is all nurture and no nature? Maybe it is related to the soul/spirit that resides within the body. Perhaps souls are feminine or masculine and sometimes the soul goes into the 'incompatible' physical body.

tweakabelle -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/13/2017 6:39:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Evidence on the Biological Basis of Gender Identity According to a review article in Endocrine Practice, there is increasing evidence of a biological basis for gender identity . . . “This paper represents the first comprehensive review of the scientific evidence that gender identity is a biological phenomenon,” explains corresponding author Joshua D. Safer, MD, FACP. let me make it very clear: there is no basis for claims of biological gender determination. For such a claim to be sustainable it requires that you believe humans are capable of analysing human behaviour perfectly. Anybody who starts a paragraph with a claim like that, and then defends it by invoking the impossibility of analyzing human behavior perfectly, should not be encouraged to harm herself further. K. Well you can just dream on, wasting your own and everyone else's time, clinging to the false hope that someday someone might just achieve the impossible, and refusing to learn anything from the failure of every single one of the thousands of attempts to do so to date. Good luck with that. That kind of self delusive approach has to be far more self destructive than adopting a realistic approach.

tweakabelle -> RE: There Is No Gender Wage Gap (3/13/2017 6:57:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Evidence on the Biological Basis of Gender Identity According to a review article in Endocrine Practice, there is increasing evidence of a biological basis for gender identity . . . “This paper represents the first comprehensive review of the scientific evidence that gender identity is a biological phenomenon,” explains corresponding author Joshua D. Safer, MD, FACP. let me make it very clear: there is no basis for claims of biological gender determination. For such a claim to be sustainable it requires that you believe humans are capable of analysing human behaviour perfectly. Anybody who starts a paragraph with a claim like that, and then defends it by invoking the impossibility of analyzing human behavior perfectly, should not be encouraged to harm herself further. K. No basis for biological gender determination. So no "gender gene"? So people cannot be born transgendered? Gender is all nurture and no nature? It sounds like you are assuming that gender in every individual is a 100% fully determined phenomenon. That may not be the case.

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