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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/27/2006 7:47:40 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		And I am glad to have people that would infringe upon my rights to be left alone far away from me.

Your point?

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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/27/2006 7:47:50 AM   
twicehappy


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Status: offline 		Yes but think of all the fun we would miss if we did not bitch all together in a group sometimes, lol. Big grins.........

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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/27/2006 7:49:38 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

Yes but think of all the fun we would miss if we did not bitch all together in a group sometimes, lol. Big grins.........


Just think of all the fun he would kill if he lived in the same street as you.

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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/27/2006 7:57:02 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		What right is that you want? You would seem to want the right to be the most obnoxious motherfucker of anyone around you; sadly, you don't have that right. You have to conform to the same limits as everyone else: reasonableness and making sure that the expression of your rights does not trample over the rights of another.

How hard is this to understand? Do you actually think people disagree with this fundamental view of one's rights?

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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/27/2006 8:04:12 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
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Status: offline 		Hark, Mister Reasonable speaks!  You just sound like a grumpy old man in dire need of getting his leg over.

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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/27/2006 8:24:56 AM   
ModeratorEleven


Posts: 2007
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Status: offline 		Calm down folks.

XI

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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/27/2006 10:12:54 AM   
Rongreenw


Posts: 7
Joined: 7/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

In other words, you leave me alone and I'll leave you alone.




I wish my idea of leaving people alone was branding complete strangers as retarded motherfucking fucktard dumbasses.

(You need to stop applying all your anger and personal problems onto smokers.  Find someone else to blame.  Like yourself.)

< Message edited by Rongreenw -- 7/27/2006 10:13:39 AM >

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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/27/2006 10:48:34 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Chaingang has a point - smokers (including me) can be inconsiderate towards others including throwing lit cig ends out of cars.
I dont like how he made his point though lol - whatever happened to polite convo.

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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/27/2006 11:17:38 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		"Polite conversation" is merely an attempt to control the trajectory of discourse with advance censorship. In reality there is only conversation, with no qualifiers. I found it useful in a conversation about supposed freedoms to get in people's faces about the subject to show that we are all hypocrites to a degree, but that there are also very real differences. The fact is the rough language is most generally a strongly protected right whereas smoking or shouting "fire" in a crowded theater are not - and there are reasons for that too. Of course, I am continually stunned to note how little people seem to understand about fundamental concepts like "rights" and the philosophy behind those ideas. It is these failures in understanding that give rise to inappropriate assertions of misconceived or pretended rights.

< Message edited by Chaingang -- 7/27/2006 11:21:57 AM >

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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/27/2006 11:58:34 AM   
MistressTexas


Posts: 425
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline 		"while I may not agree with a word you say, I will defend to the death your right to say it." Smoking is harmful, and I must admit I'm not a huge fan of the smell, but it is a personal choice.... well to an extent anyway. I didn't see this mentioned on the thread so far, but theres a good chance I'm beng incompetent, please bear with me. Smoking is more addictive than cocaine. I do believe thats been proven in several studies (no I cant bring them all to mind.), and having seen both junkies and smokers going through withdrawl, I am inclined to believe it. With more and more places becoming smoke free, perhaps the solution is to choose to frequent these places as opposed to smoking establishments. I do agree the insensitivity of many smokers is appalling. I think stricter fines and penalties are in order for said ass hats. I do think that there should be more restrictions on "open air" smoking, like sidewalks and plazas. I think that because allergy statistics are increasing at an almost exponential rate, and having people keel over due to anaphylactic shock is just going to suck. That said, I think some of he same restrictions should be places on people who insist on drenching themselves in perfume. 1 spritz usually does it people... eeeeew. Smokers: be more considerate of your smoke, butts and ashes. Non-smokers: being militant is just going to annoy everyone.

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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/27/2006 1:09:34 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		Man, this is bigger than religion, politics, AND Elvis! 

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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/27/2006 1:10:36 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

"Polite conversation" is merely an attempt to control the trajectory of discourse with advance censorship. In reality there is only conversation, with no qualifiers. I found it useful in a conversation about supposed freedoms to get in people's faces about the subject to show that we are all hypocrites to a degree, but that there are also very real differences. The fact is the rough language is most generally a strongly protected right whereas smoking or shouting "fire" in a crowded theater are not - and there are reasons for that too. Of course, I am continually stunned to note how little people seem to understand about fundamental concepts like "rights" and the philosophy behind those ideas. It is these failures in understanding that give rise to inappropriate assertions of misconceived or pretended rights.


The bottom line is, no one has any rights. Your government takes human rights away when it is convenient to them. The fact that you can come on this board and discuss your 'rights' is simply because someone bitching about smokers keeps you from thinking about real issues such as your government denying people their human rights.

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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/27/2006 2:23:44 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

"Polite conversation" is merely an attempt to control the trajectory of discourse with advance censorship. In reality there is only conversation, with no qualifiers. I found it useful in a conversation about supposed freedoms to get in people's faces about the subject to show that we are all hypocrites to a degree, but that there are also very real differences. The fact is the rough language is most generally a strongly protected right whereas smoking or shouting "fire" in a crowded theater are not - and there are reasons for that too. Of course, I am continually stunned to note how little people seem to understand about fundamental concepts like "rights" and the philosophy behind those ideas. It is these failures in understanding that give rise to inappropriate assertions of misconceived or pretended rights.


The bottom line is, no one has any rights. Your government takes human rights away when it is convenient to them. The fact that you can come on this board and discuss your 'rights' is simply because someone bitching about smokers keeps you from thinking about real issues such as your government denying people their human rights.


Lightheartedly....

Well....What's a smoker to do?

I smoke, and I know it's bad for me.......The more places that ban smoking the less I smoke and I do not lament that fact.......even though I might wish to tear someone's face off after 6 hours........LOL

My name is agirl and I'm an addict.

I don't want to be in anyone's face when I have a cigarette. I can smoke at home, with doors or windows open etc or outside on the terrace. I can TRY to be a *considerate* smoker....at least.

I struggle when the person next to me at the gym is wearing heavy perfume.....I see my smoking as similar.

I'll try not to piss anyone off intentionally and thoughtlessly.

Living cheek to jowl with other humans means someone is going to piss someone off at some time, though......LOL

agirl






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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/27/2006 4:11:51 PM   
GddssBella


Posts: 343
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline 		G'afternoon all:


Thank you OP, for some of the best chuckles I've had today. The problem is, these people that usurp our rights are too selfish to realize their own part in the situation. You'll never get through to them. If this was just a rant? I say, Bravo, well put. Otherwise, you're just bashing your head needlessly against the wall.

To the smokers? No one is trying to stop you from enjoying your vice. Nor are we trying to ban the activity. We're here on this site because we have vices or desires. Just don't indulge in your addiction around others, especially in public. In your homes or in establishments that cater to you, those locations are fine. What the non-smokers are attempting to make you understand, you're oppressing our rights. When you can be unbiased, think it through. Accept responsibility for your actions. When you can give up all your conveniences that enable you to enjoy your quality of life, such as electricity that runs your computer monitor, which is right now giving off radiation, or your air conditioner, then let's discuss this as adults.

Btw, do not assume you know the extent of someone's olfactory prowess, I can smell tobacco smoke from anywhere within my building or if I'm outside, across the street.

Most of this controversy is why I stopped posting on the other smoking threads. They just don't get it and never will. *shrugs* First one that steps into my personal space and violates my rights by blowing smoke at me will meet the heel of my hand up their nose. Problem solved. *sweet smile*


Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...





Bella

_____________________________

Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting..."Wow! What a ride!"

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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/27/2006 11:57:37 PM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GddssBella

G'afternoon all:


Thank you OP, for some of the best chuckles I've had today. The problem is, these people that usurp our rights are too selfish to realize their own part in the situation. You'll never get through to them. If this was just a rant? I say, Bravo, well put. Otherwise, you're just bashing your head needlessly against the wall.

To the smokers? No one is trying to stop you from enjoying your vice.


That's reasonably decent of you, thanks!

quote:



Nor are we trying to ban the activity. We're here on this site because we have vices or desires. Just don't indulge in your addiction around others, especially in public.


Most of us don't, I think the problem here is not smokers as much as it is the anti-smoking lobby using us as a scapegoat for every problem they have.  You are not above us somehow simply because you don't smoke - so really, stop with this "We'll let you do it - for now" routine.  I've never smoked around anyone that doesn't like it and I really object to those people complaining.  It really is annoying to have a non-smoker believe they can decide for me whether I choose to smoke or not.  You thankfully can't.  I don't smoke around you, don't expect to be able to tell me whether I can do it or not.

quote:


In your homes or in establishments that cater to you, those locations are fine.


It's very decent of you to allow us this permission, thanks again

quote:



What the non-smokers are attempting to make you understand, you're oppressing our rights.


99.9999999% of smokers have never smoked around you.  Ever.  From now until the end of time, they never will.  In no conceivable way is anyone "oppressing your rights" except any single smoker that chooses to do it in your presence.  And you have the right to tell that particular smoker to do it elsewhere. 

quote:



When you can be unbiased, think it through.



Good advice to yourself, also

quote:


Accept responsibility for your actions.


I already do
quote:



When you can give up all your conveniences that enable you to enjoy your quality of life, such as electricity that runs your computer monitor, which is right now giving off radiation, or your air conditioner, then let's discuss this as adults.
Btw, do not assume you know the extent of someone's olfactory prowess, I can smell tobacco smoke from anywhere within my building or if I'm outside, across the street.


Oh puhleeze.  This is why smokers get so annoyed at the holier-than-thou anti-smokers making claims that are scientifically silly.  If you're standing in an average street, you are already breathing fumes that are a thousand times more lethal than from someone smoking a cigarette 100 yards away.  Cigarette smoke travels upwards.  I simply refuse to believe if I'm smoking on a street, you can not only smell it from across the road but that it's somehow affecting your health.

Try as you may to prove otherwise, you don't have any right to dislike a smell.  If you did, vegetarians would have every burger joint in the world shut down tomorrow.
quote:



Most of this controversy is why I stopped posting on the other smoking threads. They just don't get it and never will. *shrugs*

First one that steps into my personal space and violates my rights by blowing smoke at me will meet the heel of my hand up their nose. Problem solved. *sweet smile*


Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...





Bella


Truly.  Stop pretending this has anything to do with smoking, smokers or tobacco.  It's the fact you don't like the habit and therefore you have a soapbox to complain, over-state your case and attack people doing something you don't approve of.

Most smokers I know don't do it around anyone that would object.  I really am tired of hearing you and others turn into complaining, holier-than-thou mini-dicators just because you don't do it yourselves.

I happen to like smoking.  No, I love it.  I will do it until my lungs collapse.

And before anyone says "Fine, just don't do it around me", remember.  I already don't.

Thanks for reading.

< Message edited by EnglishDomNW -- 7/28/2006 12:15:07 AM >

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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/28/2006 12:34:51 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GddssBella

Most of this controversy is why I stopped posting on the other smoking threads. They just don't get it and never will. *shrugs* First one that steps into my personal space and violates my rights by blowing smoke at me will meet the heel of my hand up their nose. Problem solved. *sweet smile*



We get it. It is the belligerent anti-smokers using smoking as a, pardon the pun, smoke screen, for their obvious other considerable personal issues. Perhaps they might try therapy.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 7/28/2006 12:35:31 AM >

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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/28/2006 6:20:44 AM   
GddssBella


Posts: 343
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline 		G'morning all:


*chuckles at EDNW and mc* I just knew we'd hear from the 2 loudest smokers to date so far. You can pick apart my post all you like to your happy heart's content. Doesn't change the facts. Your experiences aren't my own. Do not presume to know what I have gone through. Nor can you presume to tell me my rights. Now who's holier than thou?

There's one redeeming factor here. The very vice that you enjoy will someday be the death of you. Karma is a boomerang.


Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...





Bella

_____________________________

Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting..."Wow! What a ride!"

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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/28/2006 6:50:34 AM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GddssBella

G'morning all:


*chuckles at EDNW and mc* I just knew we'd hear from the 2 loudest smokers to date so far. You can pick apart my post all you like to your happy heart's content. Doesn't change the facts. Your experiences aren't my own. Do not presume to know what I have gone through. Nor can you presume to tell me my rights. Now who's holier than thou?

There's one redeeming factor here. The very vice that you enjoy will someday be the death of you. Karma is a boomerang.


Try as I may, I can't figure out how that's anyone's concern but mine.

I'm not sure how smoker's ever put up with this for so long.  I'm assuming a lot of anti-smoking people drink alcohol on here - (I don't)  but I don't want to see it banned because someone's vomited all over the street, or some drunk beats his wife to a pulp, or kills a crowd of people while driving under the influence 

That's because I'm intelligent enough to realise most people who drink alcohol do it responsibly and enjoy it.  People need to stop witch hunting those that do something they enjoy and get on with their own lives.

< Message edited by EnglishDomNW -- 7/28/2006 6:58:13 AM >

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(Yes and I am Man, keep the noise down, bitch.)
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RE: Second hand smoke? How about second hand fire? - 7/28/2006 7:05:44 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GddssBella

There's one redeeming factor here. The very vice that you enjoy will someday be the death of you. Karma is a boomerang.



My grandfather began smoking at 14 when he joined the army in 1888 and smoked heavily until it killed him at 99. I'm assuming karma stopped him living that extra week and prevented him from reaching his 100th birthday. Though perhaps it was his refusal to take his medcine and insist on having a glass of whiskey instead that killed him off so young. Or was it his insistance that lean meat was bad for you and it was the fat that was good for you.

He was 56 when my father was born and  61 when his last child was born. See how bad smoking is for you.

Karma is a hippydom irrelevence, it is attitude to life that counts, death is the only certainty if we smoke or not..

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 7/28/2006 7:14:55 AM >

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