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So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 4:10:27 PM

jlf1961

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Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

‘Good Samaritan’ Kills Active Shooter in Texas Sports Bar: Police
by Phil McCausland

A "good Samaritan" with a gun killed an active shooter who may have been gearing up for a deadly rampage at a Texas sports bar Wednesday night, police said.

When 48-year-old James Jones walked inside the Zona Caliente Sports Bar, started yelling and then allegedly shot and killed Cesar Perez — a 37-year-old restaurant manager who'd attempted to calm him down — Arlington police said witnesses were afraid they would be next.

In addition to the gun used to kill Perez, police say Jones had another semiautomatic pistol and two knives on him. The serial number on the second gun had been scratched off, and Jones did not have a gun license, police said.
source

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

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RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 5:05:26 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

‘Good Samaritan’ Kills Active Shooter in Texas Sports Bar: Police
by Phil McCausland

A "good Samaritan" with a gun killed an active shooter who may have been gearing up for a deadly rampage at a Texas sports bar Wednesday night, police said.

When 48-year-old James Jones walked inside the Zona Caliente Sports Bar, started yelling and then allegedly shot and killed Cesar Perez — a 37-year-old restaurant manager who'd attempted to calm him down — Arlington police said witnesses were afraid they would be next.

In addition to the gun used to kill Perez, police say Jones had another semiautomatic pistol and two knives on him. The serial number on the second gun had been scratched off, and Jones did not have a gun license, police said.
source

The shooter had broken God only knows how many laws before he even went in.
He did not have a permit to carry and filing off the serial number is a Federal offence just for starters.
But to listen to the anti gun crowd the problem was that the samaritan had a gun at all and didn't carry in the open so that he would be the first person the shooter shot.

Remember about 3 weeks ago three people broke into a home and got themselfs shot in OK.
The father of at least one of them wants something done to the 18 year old who shot them because he had an AR and they had a knife and a set of brass knuckels so it wasn't a fair fight. It apparently it didn't occure to him that if they had obeyed the law and not broken into the home and threatened the guy they wouldn't have had anything to worry about.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 2

RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 5:16:53 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
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Nobody has said gun owners dont stop crime.
thats a fallacy.
Anybody who says that doesnt follow crime stats.
And are idiots

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RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 6:32:22 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Nobody has said gun owners dont stop crime.
thats a fallacy.
Anybody who says that doesnt follow crime stats.
And are idiots

actually a number of anti gun idiots on this board has made just such a statement

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 4

RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 6:35:13 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
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please cite them

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RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 6:35:33 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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Nonsense.

There's a HUGE difference between questioning whether gun ownership reduces crime and anecdotes of gun owners doing so.

You're a sharp guy, and I know you know the difference.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 5/5/2017 6:42:46 PM >

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 6

RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 6:46:57 PM

Nnanji

Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Nobody has said gun owners dont stop crime.
thats a fallacy.
Anybody who says that doesnt follow crime stats.
And are idiots

Citation please.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 7

RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 6:48:27 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
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Oh that figures, it explains a lot too.

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RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 6:56:35 PM

Nnanji

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Oh that figures, it explains a lot too.

Really! Naw...you just learned to say that so you sound like you understand stuff. Let me explain something to you Lucy, so you can understand. Just because you are a little less dim than those you choose to associate with doesn't make you not dim.

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RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 6:57:46 PM

Lucylastic

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you need to take your own advise there, have fun

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RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 6:59:55 PM

Nnanji

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Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

you need to take your own advise there, have fun

How would you know?

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RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 7:06:03 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Nonsense.

There's a HUGE difference between questioning whether gun ownership reduces crime and anecdotes of gun owners doing so.

You're a sharp guy, and I know you know the difference.

And even Blumberg admitts that more crime are stopped by people with guns that are committed with guns.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 12

RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 7:10:01 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Nobody has said gun owners dont stop crime.
thats a fallacy.
Anybody who says that doesnt follow crime stats.
And are idiots

actually a number of anti gun idiots on this board has made just such a statement

A 2010 study by the CDC ( I know congress said they couldn't but Oboma ordered it anyway) put the number of crime prevented by gun owners at around 2,000,000 per year.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 13

RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 7:26:46 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Nobody has said gun owners dont stop crime.
thats a fallacy.
Anybody who says that doesnt follow crime stats.
And are idiots

actually a number of anti gun idiots on this board has made just such a statement

A 2010 study by the CDC ( I know congress said they couldn't but Oboma ordered it anyway) put the number of crime prevented by gun owners at around 2,000,000 per year.

It wasnt by the CDC it was by the IOM and the National Research Council , it also didnt say 2,000,000. it said between 500,000 and three million and that they were estimates.

quote:

The Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council released the results of their research through the CDC last month. Researchers compiled data from previous studies in order to guide future research on gun violence, noting that �almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.”

Also
While you dont like the gun violence archive it also mentions defensive numbers use in gun deaths, not "self defence" without any injury.

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RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 9:05:11 PM

Termyn8or

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Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

Well let me pose a question :

If you are say out in the garage and some guy comes up and wants to rob you, regardless of whether he is armed or not, and you pull out a gun and he runs away, do you call the cops ?

This is the US and I tell you, I bet most people don't. As long as they didn't have to pull the trigger they usually want to keep their mouth shut. Like me, I go out to the garage to smoke pot. the cops come and ask "what do I smell here ?", of course I answer "Lumber". But I do not need the hassle of talking to them and I do not need the hassle of a dead body either. I wouid have to call the kid to dig a hole, and I can't count on him in the middle of the night because he works days.

And there are crimes prevented just by the perp knowing you (or someone) is armed. Show me how many armed robberies took place at police stations. I know one happened at a gun store a few years back but that was a fluke. Another place is certain bars. they have a law now, which I think could be fought on Constitutional grounds, that you can't bring a gun to a bar. But armed robberies are still very rare at like biker bars because they like me, simply do not care what is legal and what is not. If the guy who shoots you goes to jail for thirty days and has to pay a fine, you are just as dead.

Getting caught killed or maimed is what prevents crime here. This is not a civilised society. We are an arrogant and spiteful people. Other countries are a bit different. What's ore their governments have learned that it is easier to manage people who are happy and content. The US government seems to want to do the opposite, and this is both parties, everyone. You get a job with the government here most people get on a power trip. Cops are the worst when it happens to them. Licensed to kill, and with attitude, and hatred.

But if anyone want to say we should not have guns, ask why the police have them. There is a reason.

We have the same reason.

T^T

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 15

RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 10:04:43 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Well let me pose a question :

If you are say out in the garage and some guy comes up and wants to rob you, regardless of whether he is armed or not, and you pull out a gun and he runs away, do you call the cops ?

This is the US and I tell you, I bet most people don't. As long as they didn't have to pull the trigger they usually want to keep their mouth shut. Like me, I go out to the garage to smoke pot. the cops come and ask "what do I smell here ?", of course I answer "Lumber". But I do not need the hassle of talking to them and I do not need the hassle of a dead body either. I wouid have to call the kid to dig a hole, and I can't count on him in the middle of the night because he works days.

And there are crimes prevented just by the perp knowing you (or someone) is armed. Show me how many armed robberies took place at police stations. I know one happened at a gun store a few years back but that was a fluke. Another place is certain bars. they have a law now, which I think could be fought on Constitutional grounds, that you can't bring a gun to a bar. But armed robberies are still very rare at like biker bars because they like me, simply do not care what is legal and what is not. If the guy who shoots you goes to jail for thirty days and has to pay a fine, you are just as dead.

Getting caught killed or maimed is what prevents crime here. This is not a civilised society. We are an arrogant and spiteful people. Other countries are a bit different. What's ore their governments have learned that it is easier to manage people who are happy and content. The US government seems to want to do the opposite, and this is both parties, everyone. You get a job with the government here most people get on a power trip. Cops are the worst when it happens to them. Licensed to kill, and with attitude, and hatred.

But if anyone want to say we should not have guns, ask why the police have them. There is a reason.

We have the same reason.

T^T

I have had three cases when my having a gun prevented a crime, the cops never heard of any of them not because I was avoiding the hassel. You go in, or call them to your location and when you (or they) you say I was almost robbed, and they say and...,
All you do is wate there time, they don't have your property, they didn't get to break in to your house (all of mine happened outdoors) there is nothing for them to investigate you are simplly wasting their time, and yours.
I know several other peple wh have had the same experience , and they did the same.
Devinsive firearm usage is more underreported than any crime simply because nothing is accomplished by doing so. It is also my experience that afterward the thug tend to cross to the other side of the street whe they pass your house.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 16

RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/5/2017 10:21:13 PM

CaptR

Posts: 425
Joined: 4/25/2012
Status: offline

I support concealed carry but have to ask was the Good Samaritan within the law just being in a sports bar while armed? I for one am glad he was but Texas law states you can't carry into an establishment that derives 51% of it's revenue from the sale of alcohol (unless that's been amended like where I reside) I'm guessing the "Sportsbar" met their obligation by generating food sales exceeding that. Also, had the Samaritan consumed alcohol? I know here in Virginia I can carry into a bar or restaurant (and often do) but can't have any thing to drink with alcohol in it. Again, glad the guy was there but was he legal? Either way in my opinion, good job. Kill someone in Texas, ya get killed back.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 17

RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/6/2017 12:14:22 AM

Termyn8or

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All this shit about alcohol. Most people do not become blithering idiots after drinking one beer. Some people are blithering idiots without any beer. Like DUIs, some people can drive, and I have known a couple who can drive just fine after a fifth of whiskey. Then there are other who can barely drive at all, and can't handkle booze either. They should not drink and drive. But mainly, people who can don't get stopped all that often anyway.

Guns are the same thing but ten times worse. If you shot an armed robber at a bar and it is found that you had a couple of beers, should you go to jail ? You aimed right on, hit the perp and nobody else, cooperated with the cops when they came to get the body, found out you were background checked and totally legal with that firearm, and probably saved some innocent lives, should you go to jail ? Or even pay a fine ?

Now if you got a "Bubba shot the jukebox" situation that is different.

And what if you are home and just happen to be drinking, does that mean you have to let any Tom, Dick or Harry just rob you ? Fuck no.

Now if they estimated between half a million and three million, two million is not an unreasonable assumption. I had my house robbed a few times and didn't even bother calling. Family-wise we have had three guns stolen, and never called. Why bother ? Are they going to search everyone on the street for a gun with that serial number ? Hell no. Of course we hope they were not used to kill innocent people, but it is out of our control and quite frankly, out of theirs as well.

There are some things that simply cannot be fixed until there is a fundamental shift in humanity. And it doesn't even entail taking the guns away, it is just a matter of people not misusing them. People need to start caring about each other, even a little bit. Right now, in this country, people do not give a shit what happens to their neighbors. Even me, if I heard gunshots from next door what would I do ? And I kinda like the people. Bunch of daygos. Loaned me a torque wrench when working on my sister's car. I loaned them a set of spring compressors when they were doing some struts on their car. But how do I know if they are just firing a couple of test rounds or someone is going off, or they're getting robbed ?

See that is the problem with guns, you have to know when NOT to shoot. OK, if I actually see a bunch of hoods kick down their front door I will lock and load. That's my version of neighborhood watch. Just calling the police doesn't work, they could all be dead by the time the cops got there.

Guns are only an issue because some people have a phobia about them. You could stick two wires in an electrical outlet and be just as deadly. You could mix up some poison. Hell if you want to go slow you can just eat our fast food. You can make a quite effective bomb with water, a pair of socks and those stainless steel wool pot scrubbers and some baking soda. Fire that up or a while and it puts out separated hydrogen and oxygen and the next tie that hot water tank fires up BOOM, your house is no longer on its foundation. You can strangle people in their sleep. Or gas them with something. Taking the guns away will not stop the killing.

T^T

(in reply to CaptR)

Post #: 18

RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/6/2017 4:58:51 AM

Milesnmiles

Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Nonsense.

There's a HUGE difference between questioning whether gun ownership reduces crime and anecdotes of gun owners doing so.

You're a sharp guy, and I know you know the difference.

Ok, here's a rather exhaustive study on the subject; "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott, after you've read that come back and tell us about the "HUGE difference between questioning whether gun ownership reduces crime and anecdotes of gun owners doing so".
;-)

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 19

RE: So Much for the gun owners dont stop crime.... - 5/6/2017 4:59:12 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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FR

Islamic State magazine steers followers to U.S. gun shows for ‘easy’ access to weapons

It's just as well, then, that the occasional private citizen can use his gun to stop a crime.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 5/6/2017 5:00:19 AM >

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