White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man

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vincentML -> White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 1:13:28 PM)
In his lawsuit against Weirton, West Virginia, police officer Stephen Mader claims he was fired for "negligence" and endangering fellow officers when he refused to shoot to kill mentally ill, armed, 23 year old R.J. Williams. Officer Mader was the first to answer a call of disturbance at Williams home. He confronted Williams and his gun (which later was found to be unloaded) Based on his experience in Afghanistan Mader judged that Williams was not a threat and decided to talk him down, to deescalate the situation. “He wasn’t angry,” he said of Williams, “he wasn’t aggressive, he didn’t seem in position to want to use a gun against anybody. He never pointed it at me. I didn’t perceive him as an imminent threat.” [SNIP] and within seconds of the other officers getting out of their cruisers there were four shots fired.” As reported on Fox News TV: “I thought I was going to be able to talk to him and deescalate it,” Mader, an ex-Marine, told The Post-Gazette. “I knew it was suicide-by-cop.” Mader said even though he didn’t know Williams Jr.’s gun was unloaded at the time, the man had the gun at his side and was not pointing it at the officer. He also knew that he had been called to the scene because of a domestic disturbance and Williams Jr. had only threatened to hurt himself. “I told him, ‘Put down the gun,’ and he’s like, ‘Just shoot me.’ And I told him, ‘I’m not going to shoot you brother,’” Mader said. Eventually, two other officers arrived and one of them shot and killed Williams Jr., hitting him in the back of the head, just behind his right ear, The Post-Gazette reported. The shooting was deemed justified, but Mader was terminated because he “failed to eliminate a threat,” according to his June 6 termination letter. Mader is now working toward getting a commercial license to drive trucks. City officials did not return calls from The Post-Gazette seeking comment. Was the killing justified? Or, was Mader handling the situation properly?

kiwisub22 -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 1:18:54 PM)
Wasn't there, can't know , but you have to wonder at the shit-stirring capacity of a thread headline that drags race into a situation that had nothing to do with race. And I think the world in general would be a lot calmer if the media weren't doing their best to have people at each others throats. Yes, racist things happen, from all ethnicities to all other ethnicities, but trying to stir it up isn't in anyone's best interests.

BamaD -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 1:28:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML In his lawsuit against Weirton, West Virginia, police officer Stephen Mader claims he was fired for "negligence" and endangering fellow officers when he refused to shoot to kill mentally ill, armed, 23 year old R.J. Williams. Officer Mader was the first to answer a call of disturbance at Williams home. He confronted Williams and his gun (which later was found to be unloaded) Based on his experience in Afghanistan Mader judged that Williams was not a threat and decided to talk him down, to deescalate the situation. “He wasn’t angry,” he said of Williams, “he wasn’t aggressive, he didn’t seem in position to want to use a gun against anybody. He never pointed it at me. I didn’t perceive him as an imminent threat.” [SNIP] and within seconds of the other officers getting out of their cruisers there were four shots fired.” As reported on Fox News TV: “I thought I was going to be able to talk to him and deescalate it,” Mader, an ex-Marine, told The Post-Gazette. “I knew it was suicide-by-cop.” Mader said even though he didn’t know Williams Jr.’s gun was unloaded at the time, the man had the gun at his side and was not pointing it at the officer. He also knew that he had been called to the scene because of a domestic disturbance and Williams Jr. had only threatened to hurt himself. “I told him, ‘Put down the gun,’ and he’s like, ‘Just shoot me.’ And I told him, ‘I’m not going to shoot you brother,’” Mader said. Eventually, two other officers arrived and one of them shot and killed Williams Jr., hitting him in the back of the head, just behind his right ear, The Post-Gazette reported. The shooting was deemed justified, but Mader was terminated because he “failed to eliminate a threat,” according to his June 6 termination letter. Mader is now working toward getting a commercial license to drive trucks. City officials did not return calls from The Post-Gazette seeking comment. Was the killing justified? Or, was Mader handling the situation properly? Both perhaps. Mader was looking into the mans face and may have read the intent of suicide by cop. The other cops arrived and saw a fellow officer being threatened. There was no way to know the gun was empty till it was over. Even your account indicates suicide by cop so they were just doing what the "victim" wanted.

mnottertail -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 1:30:42 PM)
which is why people should have the equivalent freedom to shoot cops. (and internally investigate it themselves).

Kirata -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 1:47:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub22 Wasn't there, can't know , but you have to wonder at the shit-stirring capacity of a thread headline that drags race into a situation that had nothing to do with race. Seconded. The headline at the link simply says, "Police officer fired for not shooting man who had unloaded gun." The race-bait is purely gratuitous. K.

InfoMan -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 2:19:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Was the killing justified? Or, was Mader handling the situation properly? Why does this have to be a binary 'either/or'?

BamaD -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 3:25:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub22 Wasn't there, can't know , but you have to wonder at the shit-stirring capacity of a thread headline that drags race into a situation that had nothing to do with race. Seconded. The headline at the link simply says, "Police officer fired for not shooting man who had unloaded gun." The race-bait is purely gratuitous. K. Not only that but since the police had no reason to think the gun was empty untill after the fact so nothing in the headline is relevant.

vincentML -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 4:25:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub22 Wasn't there, can't know , but you have to wonder at the shit-stirring capacity of a thread headline that drags race into a situation that had nothing to do with race. Seconded. The headline at the link simply says, "Police officer fired for not shooting man who had unloaded gun." The race-bait is purely gratuitous. K. The linked article has a photo that clearly shows the police are white. I did not change any of the facts in this matter. Actually, the headline in the linked article does refer to the victim's race. Perhaps you did not bother to click on the link.

vincentML -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 4:26:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InfoMan quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Was the killing justified? Or, was Mader handling the situation properly? Why does this have to be a binary 'either/or'? Never said it had to be. Parse it if you wish. Let me point out that the victim was shot in the back of the head. I think that is relevant. Perhaps you don't.

vincentML -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 4:33:53 PM)
quote: Even your account indicates suicide by cop so they were just doing what the "victim" wanted. Just to be clear: are you saying that if a citizen goes into a police station and request he be shot to death the police have a duty to accommodate his request? Is that what the police mean by "serve and protect?" You are quite a humanitarian. [8\|]

vincentML -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 4:52:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub22 Wasn't there, can't know , but you have to wonder at the shit-stirring capacity of a thread headline that drags race into a situation that had nothing to do with race. And I think the world in general would be a lot calmer if the media weren't doing their best to have people at each others throats. Yes, racist things happen, from all ethnicities to all other ethnicities, but trying to stir it up isn't in anyone's best interests. I disagree on several counts. Not only does it have to do with race as BLM protesters have been demonstrating this past year or two, it has a great deal to do with inadequate training of police officers in approaching mentally ill people. The Trump administration has just said it would withdraw funds in the new budget for improving neighborhood policing. It is regrettable that you are not aware of these issues; I hope this thread will raise your awareness. Racist things do not happen much to ethnic groups in this country except for persecuting and terrorizing jews and muslims, the latter targeted by the president's attempt at a travel ban. Surely you know why ethnic groups have found it easier to assimilate into our culture. Interestingly, there is at this moment another thread that has a headline that equates black people with terrorists and you do not object to that thread stirring the emotional pot. I wonder how you reconcile the difference.

BamaD -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 5:31:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Even your account indicates suicide by cop so they were just doing what the "victim" wanted. Just to be clear: are you saying that if a citizen goes into a police station and request he be shot to death the police have a duty to accommodate his request? Is that what the police mean by "serve and protect?" You are quite a humanitarian. [8\|] No, but when he walks into said station and threatens people he is asking for it. I was pointong out that in a suicide by cop case the fact that he was trying to get shot should carry weght.

BamaD -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 5:33:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: InfoMan quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Was the killing justified? Or, was Mader handling the situation properly? Why does this have to be a binary 'either/or'? Never said it had to be. Parse it if you wish. Let me point out that the victim was shot in the back of the head. I think that is relevant. Perhaps you don't. Of course when you see another officer being threatened you should take the time to move in front of his assaliant, the other cops safety be damned.

BamaD -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 5:37:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub22 Wasn't there, can't know , but you have to wonder at the shit-stirring capacity of a thread headline that drags race into a situation that had nothing to do with race. And I think the world in general would be a lot calmer if the media weren't doing their best to have people at each others throats. Yes, racist things happen, from all ethnicities to all other ethnicities, but trying to stir it up isn't in anyone's best interests. I disagree on several counts. Not only does it have to do with race as BLM protesters have been demonstrating this past year or two, it has a great deal to do with inadequate training of police officers in approaching mentally ill people. The Trump administration has just said it would withdraw funds in the new budget for improving neighborhood policing. It is regrettable that you are not aware of these issues; I hope this thread will raise your awareness. Racist things do not happen much to ethnic groups in this country except for persecuting and terrorizing jews and muslims, the latter targeted by the president's attempt at a travel ban. Surely you know why ethnic groups have found it easier to assimilate into our culture. Interestingly, there is at this moment another thread that has a headline that equates black people with terrorists and you do not object to that thread stirring the emotional pot. I wonder how you reconcile the difference. No, it only has to do with race to bigots who see race in everything like you, and he wasn't discussing the other thread.

tweakabelle -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 5:42:21 PM)
If this person was shot in the back of the head, then it follows that the police officer who shot him was either behind or to the side of the victim. It is also the case that there were 3 police officers in attendance. So the victim presumably had cops in front of him and to his side. Fox also report the sacked police officer as stating that the victim "had the gun at his side and was not pointing it at the officer". There is no report of any attempt to talk the victim 'down' other than the attempt of the police officer who was subsequently sacked. Despite the police's numerical superiority and having the victim surrounded, or near surrounded, thereby having situational dominance, the police still opted to shoot. These facts suggest that no serious attempt at de-escalating the situation was attempted, that a total of 3 police officers were unable to control the situation without recourse to violence even though there does not appear to be any immediate threat to life (the gun was by the victim's side, not pointing at any one). This suggests the police are hampered by serious lack of training in de-escalating dangerous situations. These reports also suggest that the 2 additional police's attending the situation opted to shoot as their first and only option. Somehow it is not a surprise to hear that the victim was black, that he had mental health issues, that the gun was not loaded and that the victim might have been seeking suicide by cop. It appears that in this instance, the police were only too willing to oblige him.

Kirata -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 5:47:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML The linked article has a photo that clearly shows the police are white... [and] the headline in the linked article does refer to the victim's race. You're making shit up. The Fox story you linked to has no photos, and the headline reads, "Police officer fired for not shooting man who had unloaded gun." The Post-Gazette story linked within that article has a single photo, identified only as "courtesy of the Poole family," which shows a young black man who appears to be close in age to the victim, and a headline that reads, "Weirton terminates officer who did not fire at man with gun." http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/13/police-officer-fired-for-not-shooting-man-who-had-unloaded-gun.html http://www.post-gazette.com/local/region/2016/09/11/Weirton-fired-officer-who-did-not-fire-at-man-with-gun/stories/201609090080/ K.

BamaD -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 5:53:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle If this person was shot in the back of the head, then it follows that the police officer who shot him was either behind or to the side of the victim. It is also the case that there were 3 police officers in attendance. So the victim presumably had cops in front of him and to his side. Fox also report the sacked police officer as stating that the victim "had the gun at his side and was not pointing it at the officer". There is no report of any attempt to talk the victim 'down' other than the attempt of the police officer who was subsequently sacked. Despite the police's numerical superiority and having the victim surrounded, or near surrounded, thereby having situational dominance, the police still opted to shoot. These facts suggest that no serious attempt at de-escalating the situation was attempted, that a total of 3 police officers were unable to control the situation without recourse to violence even though there does not appear to be any immediate threat to life (the gun was by the victim's side, not pointing at any one). This suggests the police are hampered by serious lack of training in de-escalating dangerous situations. These reports also suggest that the 2 additional police's attending the situation opted to shoot as their first and only option. Somehow it is not a surprise to hear that the victim was black, that he had mental health issues, that the gun was not loaded and that the victim might have been seeking suicide by cop. It appears that in this instance, the police were only too willing to oblige him. Somehow it is no suprise that you can't comprehened anything past black man shot by the police. BTW the cops had no more way of knowing he was mentally ill thanthey didthat the gun wasn't loaded so you are still talking based on the cops being all knowing.

mnottertail -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 5:57:00 PM)
Thats why it should be legal to shoot cops, they dont know anything.

tweakabelle -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 6:22:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD . BTW the cops had no more way of knowing he was mentally ill thanthey didthat the gun wasn't loaded Well of course they didn't. They shot the poor wretch before asking any questions. Had they bothered to try to talk to the guy first, it's possible that the presence of mental health issues would have become apparent pretty quickly. It often does ...

vincentML -> RE: White Cop Refused to Shoot Armed Black Man (5/10/2017 7:11:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML The linked article has a photo that clearly shows the police are white... [and] the headline in the linked article does refer to the victim's race. You're making shit up. The Fox story you linked to has no photos, and the headline reads, "Police officer fired for not shooting man who had unloaded gun." The Post-Gazette story linked within that article has a single photo, identified only as "courtesy of the Poole family," which shows a young black man who appears to be close in age to the victim, and a headline that reads, "Weirton terminates officer who did not fire at man with gun." http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/13/police-officer-fired-for-not-shooting-man-who-had-unloaded-gun.html http://www.post-gazette.com/local/region/2016/09/11/Weirton-fired-officer-who-did-not-fire-at-man-with-gun/stories/201609090080/ K. You are really quite vulgar. The first three boldened words of my OP will give you access to the link. Here it is again. SOURCE

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