RE: The Everyday Hatred of Men - Part One, Patriarchy

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RE: The Everyday Hatred of Men - Part One, Patriarchy - 5/18/2017 1:54:15 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

It is impossible to have a genuine science of human behaviour - the problem of objectivity is insurmountable. The garbage in this discussion are the claims that emanate from sources that claim to be 'scientific' - this material, which Kirata apparently finds persuasive, must be and can only be fraudulent. If there is no genuine science of human behaviour, then alternative approaches cannot be said to be 'anti-scientific'. Again Kirata's statement betrays all the hallmarks of a claim made by someone who is unfamiliar with the subject matter.

Yeah, nothing anti-scientific about that.

K.

Are we supposed to take this sad bit of snark seriously? Is there any reason not to write it off as sour grapes from a bad loser?

Are you insisting that there can be a legitimate science of human behaviour? If so you will have to mount a compelling case detailing how one human being can possibly be objective about human behaviour, something that no human being has ever succeeded in doing. And unless this scientific objectivity is attainable, then there cannot be a science of human behaviour. So without it, anything that claims to be a "scientific" analysis or account of human behaviour must be and can only be fraudulent.

And if this is not your point, what on earth are you jibbering on about?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/18/2017 1:56:04 AM >

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RE: The Everyday Hatred of Men - Part One, Patriarchy - 5/18/2017 5:17:14 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Are you insisting that there can be a legitimate science of human behaviour? If so you will have to mount a compelling case detailing how one human being can possibly be objective about human behaviour, something that no human being has ever succeeded in doing. And unless this scientific objectivity is attainable, then there cannot be a science of human behaviour. So without it, anything that claims to be a "scientific" analysis or account of human behaviour must be and can only be fraudulent.

Let me clear something up for you. I don't have to do anything. Your claim is idiotic and purely ideological. Human behavior can be studied just as objectively as the behavior of any other species. Males and females exhibit differing normative traits, ways of interacting with the world, even in lower primates. There is variation, of course, but it's not a spectrum. It's a normal distribution. The majority of men and women fall under the middle of the curve, with the exceptions becoming increasingly rare the farther they are from the mean. And while patriarchies have historically been the norm (no unambiguously matriarchal societies are known) those normative differences continue to remain evident even in gender egalitarian societies.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 5/18/2017 5:28:11 AM >

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RE: The Everyday Hatred of Men - Part One, Patriarchy - 5/18/2017 7:24:02 AM

tweakabelle

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Dream on.

Objectivity requires more than an mere assertion by some man in a white coat to be accepted as such. And the issue of gender is one where the impossibility of objectivity by any human being ( all of whom have genders, gender identities and gender interests whether they acknowledge them or not) is so obvious it is blatant.

If there is any doubt I recommend reading the so-called scientific literature on gender which is riddled with sexist and normative assumptions. Try reading for example Archives of Sexual Behaviour, a journal that likes to think of itself as one of the world's leading journals in this area. Having read the literature I can attest to its rampant sexism and normative biases, either one of which is more than sufficient to eliminate any possibility of objectivity. My claim is not an ideological one - it is based on empirical research. OTOH, your assertions are 100% ideological.

Do come back after reading it and share your thoughts.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/18/2017 7:32:13 AM >

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RE: The Everyday Hatred of Men - Part One, Patriarchy - 5/18/2017 10:01:47 AM

WickedsDesire

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Nightwish - Ever Dream (Wacken 2013)

i still prefer her https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39WaGTPnvg

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RE: The Everyday Hatred of Men - Part One, Patriarchy - 5/18/2017 11:51:27 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Dream on...

Your ignorance is exceeded only by your arrogance. You lack even a passing familiarity with the psychological literature on personality, and couldn't distinguish a competent experimental design and analysis from frog shit. All you ever do in these discussions is recite your catechism and castigate heretics. But the fact remains that from ants to humans, societies reflect the biological endowments and normative traits of their members. Within varying but limited degrees of freedom, you can exaggerate or suppress them. But go too far and the society must either collapse or become totalitarian.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 5/18/2017 12:02:53 PM >

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RE: The Everyday Hatred of Men - Part One, Patriarchy - 5/18/2017 6:27:25 PM

Milesnmiles

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Okay respectmen said this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen
...
Patriarchy blaming is one of my pet hates with feminism. It's used to be blamed for nearly everything without any evidence supporting it. Patriarchy theory is based on feminist fantasy.

and this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen
So care to show these documentations? Like actual citations and irrefutable evidence, not theory, that patriarchy is the blame and cause for this or that and whatever loony feminists claim?

And I thought, I would interested in the reply. You know, some citations and evidence but so far all I've seen is bickering back and forth with no real evidence given by either side. Which begs the question is there any evidence that Patriarchy is the bogeyman it is made out to be?

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RE: The Everyday Hatred of Men - Part One, Patriarchy - 5/19/2017 10:13:41 AM

Awareness

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen
So care to show these documentations? Like actual citations and irrefutable evidence, not theory, that patriarchy is the blame and cause for this or that and whatever loony feminists claim?

And I thought, I would interested in the reply. You know, some citations and evidence but so far all I've seen is bickering back and forth with no real evidence given by either side. Which begs the question is there any evidence that Patriarchy is the bogeyman it is made out to be?

No. None. Patriarchy itself is a system of social organisation which is reflected in a social contract which distributed roles in society according to capabilities. Sexual dimorphism is an aspect of monumentally successful species and the distribution of labour along biological gender lines is a fundamental advantage which has a significant role to play in humankind's success.

Women were not oppressed, they were insulated. Men took on roles and responsibilities consistent with their capabilities. The societal changes which feminists attribute to feminism are actually a product of technological advancement. This is readily demonstrated in anthropological studies. Subsistence societies don't have the luxury of fucking around with women's desire to be like men, they're too busy optimising their survival by assigning roles based on capabilities.

Funnily enough, men are better at hunting and killing - necessary attributes for survival.

Patriarchy theory - as distinct from patriarchy - is an ideological fantasy constructed by feminists to position women as an underclass. This is why you end up with the ludicrous situation where spoilt, ridiculous white feminists claim they've been oppressed every bit as much as African Americans. (For many years, the true underclass).

As Dave Chapelle puts it, "Look bitch, you were in on the heist - you just didn't like your cut."

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