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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/31/2017 12:52:04 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

What food and shelter to you get because you are a human in nature? Fiddleheads in the spring? Mushrooms? A cave? A pile of leaves? I suppose it would depend on where your physical form is currently residing. I am pretty sure that self-defense is a much more "natural" right than food and shelter.


The question in this thread is not what do I get but what am I entitled to as an American.

In Nature man is at war with all other men; we fall into a “survival of the fittest” (Spencer) and life is “short and brutish” (Hobbes) Individual self-defense is inadequate.

That is why we formed a social contract and gave up some of our liberties to a central authority.

In addition, we have developed a high sense of moral authority which leads us to support each other. Poverty and hunger are immoral and a failure of the social contract.



Actually we are debating whether such a contract exists, right? I mean, if you read the book Stone Soup, everyone brought something.


But then there are the lame and mentally ill. Are they to be stopped at the door? I believe there is a social compact. I also believe it is continually violated by selfish, greedy, murderous people.

The Russian folk story "Stone Soup" that was widely spread around primary schools in the Soviet Union as an example of how socialism is supposed to work?
Weird reference point for a libertarian trumptooner to produce, that.

Yeah, really.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/31/2017 12:56:57 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline 		I'm not a libertarian trumptooner.

I'm an independent.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 222
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/31/2017 1:59:41 PM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Chimpanzees are social animals.

If you think hard, you may be able to identify some differences. It's why (most of us) don't mate with them.


Many mammals are social animals. Did you have a point other than the one on your tiny little troll head

Whales, wolves, groundhogs... All social animals

How many do well when made dependant on handouts

Whales and wolves work together to be sure everyone is fed. Groundhogs work together to avoid becoming food for predators. The key words there are "work together".


(igor, not directed at you in particular, just exasperation from reading the left here in general)

so do HUMANS for ^*@^&^*# sake.

the question is who is better equipped to do it. government, or other entities.

the latter does it better and without the harm that the former does.

is it so frickin' hard for you godless lefties to believe that people are indeed charitable from their own volition and don't need to be forced by government to do whats good?

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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/31/2017 4:14:07 PM   
AtUrCervix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Chimpanzees are social animals.

If you think hard, you may be able to identify some differences. It's why (most of us) don't mate with them.


Many mammals are social animals. Did you have a point other than the one on your tiny little troll head

Whales, wolves, groundhogs... All social animals

How many do well when made dependant on handouts


I certainly can't speak for others but...I'm thinking...he may have been hopeful for your future dating opportunities.

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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/31/2017 4:16:52 PM   
AtUrCervix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Of course you do. That's your description, and if there's one thing you love, it's yourself.


Nawwwwww....it's headlines.

(360...same/same)

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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/31/2017 5:03:21 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub22

And that would be the sticker - there are those who don't [themselves] want to deal with consequences, or rules or anything that delays gratification.


Funny you should speak so directly and succinctly of oil companies and defense contractors and bankers . . .

Who being both historically and currently the greatest beneficiaries of government largess by several trillions vs the poor, while engendering infinitely more damage and ever greater instability to society and natural evolution while at it, have taken corporate irresponsibility by way of personal irresponsibility to heights we never heretofore imagined possible.




< Message edited by Edwird -- 5/31/2017 5:57:32 PM >

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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/31/2017 5:39:34 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

I've seen what feral dogs eat, and it ain't pretty sometimes


Just wait till you see feral cats.

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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/31/2017 6:14:05 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

the question is who is better equipped to do it. government, or other entities.

the latter does it better and without the harm that the former does.

is it so frickin' hard for you godless lefties to believe that people are indeed charitable from their own volition and don't need to be forced by government to do whats good?

I would think that 43 million in need of help are beyond capability of volunteer kitchens. To think otherwise begs credulity.

There are other tasks for which we depend upon the collective. Security immediately springs to mind. You benefit from our national defense, or would you rather put the whole thing in the hands of some private charity?

We make a bargain as a society. We have obligations as members of that society. I have asked you before and you ignored me: if our chosen agents have decided it is to the collective benefit to reduce poverty and homelessness
would you refuse to pay taxes? If we have a public school system, would you refuse to participate with your taxes? If we decide to pave the streets upon which you do not travel would you feel you are being forced to participate? Fuck no, you wouldn't. Not the latter two. Only the first. Why is that? Our Constitution proposes we are banded together for the general welfare. Why is it you on the Right cringe at the thought of government helping people in need? Your position is absurd.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/31/2017 6:16:07 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

As noted elsewhere, we have become a nation without values.

Oh well still, there are many 1000's of people that value a profit and even highly value...a high profit. The US has values alright.....

The US didn't go from a handful of billionaires to over 2000 billionaires without values.

Look at how much better off society is and because of that.

40%-50% no richer at all against inflation then they were 40 years ago.

private family (household) debt up to a record $12.5 trillion

of that.....

credit card debt $1-$1.5 trillion

mortgage debt is $8.48 trillion

America has values alright. Unfortunately, they aren't very good ones or [we]...just can't afford them.



_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/31/2017 10:11:41 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
the question is who is better equipped to do it. government, or other entities.

Good question.

Even better question is "Who should determine foreign policy, informed citizens or self-interested oil companies?"

That was answered in definitive manner in 1953 in Iran. Overthrowing democratically elected Mossadegh by the CIA at behest of BP. That's your answer to a most-ignorant-of-history question.

How'd that work out for us in 1979? Where did it get us in 1990? In 2003?

You don't know, you don't want to know, nobody living in fantasy world want's to know, so the news is that you can just take it outside to do your mental barfing, far away from the house. We have company, here.


So back to which does what better; We have a bunch of advocates for slave wages claiming that "We can't survive as a business if we have to pay above third world wages!"

My response is that you are so mentally derelict I don't understand how you got started in the first place. South America is where you belong, so do our country a favor and go there now. Sooner the better.

This is the point at which I would normally say, to a thinking person; "Don't be that guy."

But that's just not you, and I know it would be a lost cause.




(in reply to bounty44)
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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 6/1/2017 4:45:14 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

the question is who is better equipped to do it. government, or other entities.

the latter does it better and without the harm that the former does.

is it so frickin' hard for you godless lefties to believe that people are indeed charitable from their own volition and don't need to be forced by government to do whats good?

I would think that 43 million in need of help are beyond capability of volunteer kitchens. To think otherwise begs credulity.

There are other tasks for which we depend upon the collective. Security immediately springs to mind. You benefit from our national defense, or would you rather put the whole thing in the hands of some private charity?

We make a bargain as a society. We have obligations as members of that society. I have asked you before and you ignored me: if our chosen agents have decided it is to the collective benefit to reduce poverty and homelessness
would you refuse to pay taxes? If we have a public school system, would you refuse to participate with your taxes? If we decide to pave the streets upon which you do not travel would you feel you are being forced to participate? Fuck no, you wouldn't. Not the latter two. Only the first. Why is that? Our Constitution proposes we are banded together for the general welfare. Why is it you on the Right cringe at the thought of government helping people in need? Your position is absurd.

Well what is all but forgotten is that to the extent govt. fails to regulate business and especially the corp, and to reform against the ruse that corp. are people and that property is speech. to construct a level tax and economic field...creates the debt, inequality and poverty we are seeing now and continues on the rise.

What we notice instead is how the 1/2 century long propaganda that has taken hold that for govt. to ensure that economy serve all of society, is somehow socialism and that if there are no jobs or food or health care the modern moral sentiments of the right, now tell people, they can just go to jail or die.

That's why in fact Europeans are happier, doing better generally, get more time off, enjoy better health care and live longer where in many countries, enjoy a higher standard of living and BTW, are not coming to America.

Plus of course whether or not one believes in any of the gods as most Americans say they do while failing to enact policies that reflect that belief, simply demonstrates their increasing hypocrisy.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 231
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 6/1/2017 5:13:55 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline 		Fuck it...let's end this....I'M entitled to eat.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 232
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 6/1/2017 6:04:25 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Chimpanzees are social animals.

If you think hard, you may be able to identify some differences. It's why (most of us) don't mate with them.


Many mammals are social animals. Did you have a point other than the one on your tiny little troll head

Whales, wolves, groundhogs... All social animals

How many do well when made dependant on handouts

Whales and wolves work together to be sure everyone is fed. Groundhogs work together to avoid becoming food for predators. The key words there are "work together".


(igor, not directed at you in particular, just exasperation from reading the left here in general)

so do HUMANS for ^*@^&^*# sake.

the question is who is better equipped to do it. government, or other entities.

the latter does it better and without the harm that the former does.

is it so frickin' hard for you godless lefties to believe that people are indeed charitable from their own volition and don't need to be forced by government to do whats good?


this demonstrates the ineffectual impotent nutsuckers in general, and putinjizz felchgobbling dogshit44 in particular. Is it so fricken hard for you fanatical putinjizz felchgobblers to understand that you are ineffectual and impotent sackless useless propagandists in the face of the facts arrayed against you? The government is not forcing you to shit, get out of the country and move to nigeria if you dont like America.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 6/1/2017 6:08:29 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I think, bounty, if it's a question of godlessness, that the point that charity does not and never has pulled up the slack casts the blame of godlessness upon the entire society.

And if we're such a godless secular society, yes, we'll have to address it ourselves, since the goodness of our hearts isn't sufficient.

Welcome to reality.

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 6/1/2017 6:22:20 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I dont think it is a question of godlessness, there being ample evidence that god does not exist or is as impotent and ineffectual as dogshit44, in particular and nutsuckers in general. If we could all just live in a fantasy world we could have a free market and god would provide. And no matter what stupid shit nutsuckers did, no harm would come from it.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 235
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 6/1/2017 6:27:14 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline 		Where's my fucking steak?

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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 6/1/2017 7:13:18 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		still on the angus,

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(in reply to AtUrCervix)
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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 6/1/2017 7:16:47 PM   
MrRodgers


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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix

Fuck it...let's end this....I'M entitled to eat.

Yea, me too but then we'd need a can opener...or something.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to AtUrCervix)
Profile   Post #: 238
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 6/1/2017 7:21:37 PM   
PyrotheClown


Posts: 1950
Joined: 5/18/2009
Status: offline 		Now can we eat the rich?

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 239
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 6/1/2017 7:29:02 PM   
ThundersCry2U


Posts: 52
Joined: 8/30/2016
Status: offline 		There ya go...

Black lives matter...

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 240
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