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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/28/2017 8:35:16 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

the short answer is: "if a man will not work, he shall not eat"

if he cannot work, then the question is who's responsible to help feed him.

some will say the government.

others will say the man's family, friends, the church and the local charities and lastly, LOCAL government.

the latter is far more successful and ultimately, more humanizing.





Speaking of charities, some while ago I had a charity appeal for starving children in my inbox. The usual terrible pictures of children looking really neglected. American children. Just astonishing. Too much irony in that email for my head to deal with.



If the children are starving in the US it's because parents are trading foodstamps for drugs.


Can you explain that to the children of deadbeat dads that have just disappeared? Or the families where the father . . . or mother . . . is deceased, and the remaining spouse can't get a job that pays enough for childcare AND food, AND shelter, AND medical . . . AND . . .?


In those cases the parent IS receiving food stamps for themselves AND the children. There are also food pantries and commodities to help out. Unless the parent is trading food stamp money for drugs.

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(in reply to igor2003)
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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/28/2017 8:37:20 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I have a question for tamaka.

Am I thinking incorrectly or did you say on another thread that you were, at one time, associated with the public school system?

The reason I'm asking is because I separate children from adults in this discussion. With school having just let out, that means a lot of those kids won't be getting the lunch (and perhaps breakfast) that the school provided. How do we address feeding children during the summer?



I know that in this area there are programs where the schools still serve breakfast and lunch to any school aged child for free. I think that you will find this same program is most areas.


_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/28/2017 8:45:38 PM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		I was just remember when I was debating about the shaming school stamp issues. It's interesting talking to Americans from different states. Some Americans that I meet in real life here is in disbelief that it's possible for something like that to happen in their country, as they are imagining the law suits involve for shaming the child. And a few of them grew up in states where food in the school is free, and not chargable, so such a thing is not even a possible thing.

So I think that's America, a place where every state is a different country with different ways of running things.

But if the school already gives free food, then that takes care alot for many children.

(in reply to Aylee)
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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 6:46:15 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		First, I want to thank those who answered my question. I have not looked it up in my city yet. All I know is, since schools have been letting out, I've been hearing commercials on the radio from the food banks to encourage people to donate more. If schools are still serving food, that's great for the kids who can actually get to the school. I would have to think there are at least some that can't.

I also have to put a word in here about the fact that summer also means that child care expenses go up. When school's not in session, parents with children ages 6-12 are going to have that cost increase, which is also money that might have been spent on food.

Hope nobody will mind. I wanted to say a word about this:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
What about Military families relying on SNAP?
23,000 families the last I remember, 2013 numbers.

For those who didn't read that recent thread started in General about how people are privileged, one of my comments about it was that I'm absolutely privileged not paying for medical care. It doesn't sound like a privilege to people in the UK or Canada, but in the USA, it's a big deal. This was one of the swing factors that MP and I discussed when he had roughly 12 years in and we were looking at did he want to re-up. I am very much aware of what most middle income people pay for medical coverage through their employment, and personally, I think it's way too high. That's just your premiums. We're not even getting into things like co-pays for doctor visits, prescription costs, and heaven help you if someone has a catastrophic illness that requires hospitalization.

That 23,000 figure, from my observations, is probably correct. More often than not, anybody E-4 and below, where the military spouse is not employed, and we're talking about a family of four, they are probably going to qualify for food stamps. I don't even want to get into how many of those folks qualify for WIC.

The other side to this. It is ridiculously easy as hell for any person who is active duty, a military spouse, or a military dependent to access reproductive care. Motrin (800mg) is probably the most common thing dispensed for any little ache or pain that ails you. The second most common 'candy' (yes, they call it that) happens to be birth control pills. Uncle Sam will practically bend over backwards to make sure those little pink and green pills are available to anybody who asks for them. All it takes is one appointment at the OB-GYN clinic and then a trip to the pharmacy that is just down the hall. Tri-Care is practically the golden ticket.


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(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 7:27:35 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

the short answer is: "if a man will not work, he shall not eat"

if he cannot work, then the question is who's responsible to help feed him.

some will say the government.

others will say the man's family, friends, the church and the local charities and lastly, LOCAL government.

the latter is far more successful and ultimately, more humanizing.





Speaking of charities, some while ago I had a charity appeal for starving children in my inbox. The usual terrible pictures of children looking really neglected. American children. Just astonishing. Too much irony in that email for my head to deal with.



If the children are starving in the US it's because parents are trading foodstamps for drugs.


Can you explain that to the children of deadbeat dads that have just disappeared? Or the families where the father . . . or mother . . . is deceased, and the remaining spouse can't get a job that pays enough for childcare AND food, AND shelter, AND medical . . . AND . . .?


In those cases the parent IS receiving food stamps for themselves AND the children. There are also food pantries and commodities to help out. Unless the parent is trading food stamp money for drugs.

...or the parent is too proud and self-reliant to accept food stamps and the stigma that often comes with them.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 7:43:11 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

So is every American entitled to eat and is food stamps something that ought to be that ultimate guarantor?”


No, sorry. Get a job.



I had an interesting convo with a woman last winter, she was at the register using food stamps talking with the clerk about how she will be well fed and freezing out on the street. Asked her if I could be nosy, what she meant. Well she lost her job, was too old and couldnt find another, the bank took her house, so the state gave her food stamps to keep her alive on one hand and on the other took her house forcing her out on the street so she dies anyway. Life it seems is not without irony. right to eat but no right to shelter.


More cruel irony is how if we guarantee everything as a "right" then eventually no one will have anything

Just as they are learning the hard way, in Venezuela.

Thomas Malthus would disagree; you might read him sometime.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 7:48:20 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

the short answer is: "if a man will not work, he shall not eat"

if he cannot work, then the question is who's responsible to help feed him.

some will say the government.

others will say the man's family, friends, the church and the local charities and lastly, LOCAL government.

the latter is far more successful and ultimately, more humanizing.



You present no historical evidence that charity is more effective, efficient, or humanizing than government assistance. Big government spreads the responsibility; it is or should be the final guarantee of social justice.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 7:53:57 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

Government entitlement programs are mandated and individuals have no choice or say in how their money will be spent. On the other hand, individuals that give to private charities have a choice on which charities they wish to support. Individuals, if they desire, can seek out those charities that best match their beliefs and goals.


Here is the crux of the matter. The ability for individual donors to cop out shall not be restricted by the Government? Is that in the Bill of Rights?

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 7:56:12 AM   
kiwisub22


Posts: 450
Joined: 7/16/2016
Status: offline 		and the odd thing with the civilian population is that politicians act as if it personally affects them if women don't raise children. Planned parenthood was the provider of choice for both my girls, one who is permanently disabled and the other has mental health issues as well. They don't have extra money for co-payments. Take away a free service and one consequence could be kids. Kids that qualify for all sorts of benefits that cost money, paid for by the taxpayers and doled out by politicians.
My point is, is that women should be encouraged to not reproduce beyond their means to afford it - make the pill available , IUD's should be encouraged and sterilization for men and women under a certain income point should be free.
How is it cheaper for the government to pour money into programs for at least 18 to 20 years, instead of a 10 minute operation.

If I was the dictator of the world, it would be mandated that the government would financially assist families for the first child, and half for the second child - only if both mother and father are sterilized. I don't think there is anything anywhere that says we have to breed like bunnies and have children with less than optimal outcomes because the parents are so disadvantaged. It certainly doesn't help society as a whole. And it certainly doesn't help the poor little buggers who go to school with no supplies, and no coat and no knowledge of what the colour green is.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 8:01:26 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And that is hardly true, there are many examples of private charities and corporations and massive waste. Consider Il Douchovitches charities designed for him and his enrichment, or say Healthcare and the siphoning off of life giving dollars there.

It aint so. Either way.


There's no waste in government.


The greater evil is the hoarding of wealth than the redistribution of it. Money makes the world go 'round. ~ Richard Abernathy (fake wise man)

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 8:08:36 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

Food stamps work. Each month they help feed 43 million poor and low-income Americans, most in families with children and working parents. Food stamps, officially the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, keep millions of people from falling into poverty each year and prevent millions of poor people, many disabled or elderly, from falling deeper into poverty.


Exactly. Charities cannot handle the magnitude of the problem.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 8:11:08 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

They will never pass cutting food stamps. Too many moderate republicans have a conscience.

Republicans, moderates, conscience all in one sentence!!!

Brilliant, tamaka. We shall never see the likes of such an achievement again.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 8:17:35 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

Voting to help the truly needy in a responsible manner, is not the same as affirming that everyone is "entitled" to this or that


This thread is about human rights and subsistence, fool. Warren Buffet is "entitled" to eat just like "downtown, Leroy Brown." But Warren does not need help from the brotherhood of man. ~ Jesus Christ (real spokesperson or ghost)

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to BoscoX)
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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 8:21:19 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

Actually, historically America has stood for 'Freedom to fend for yourself'. We are traditionally a capitalist nation where you work to support yourself.


Where is that written?

You are claiming that the economic system is the entirety of the social contract.

wrong

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 8:25:33 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		We are traditionally an agrarian society.

Capitalism as we've come to understand it after the Industrial Revolution came 100 years after the nation was founded.

Globalization for the US came after the dawn of the 20th century with the acquisition of the Philippines.

It's a long way from growing your own food at the homestead.

Or being a slave or indentured servant or apprentice in your Master's house.

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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 9:06:02 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		right we are whats known as 'free range slaves' now days

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 9:08:01 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Marx would be proud of you.

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 9:10:03 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Food stamps work. Each month they help feed 43 million poor and low-income Americans, most in families with children and working parents. Food stamps, officially the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, keep millions of people from falling into poverty each year and prevent millions of poor people, many disabled or elderly, from falling deeper into poverty.


Exactly. Charities cannot handle the magnitude of the problem.



what would anyone expect when we spend most of our money spreading the illusion of democracy at the end of a barrel of a gun then wonder why we get blowback?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 9:11:45 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		I realize it escapes your comprehension same as trying to explain monetary policy to you, took you 10 years to catch up.




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Is every American is entitled to eat? - 5/29/2017 9:31:12 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		That's your comeback? You've really got nothing then.

You simply shared one of Marx's essential points, that capitalism is feudalism dressed up.

* shrug *


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 80
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