London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower

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WickedsDesire -> London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 6:33:08 AM)
London fire: Baby caught after being 'dropped to safety from tower' A baby was caught by a member of the public after being dropped from a window as fire engulfed London's Grenfell Tower, a witness has said. Samira Lamrani said she saw a woman gesturing to the crowd below that she was about to drop her baby from "the ninth or 10th floor" of the building. A man ran forward and managed to catch the baby, she said. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40272168 Six people have died and 20 people are in critical care after a huge fire engulfed a west London tower block on Tuesday night. The building is still on fire and many people are unaccounted for. What happened? The fire was reported at the 24-storey block, Grenfell Tower, in north Kensington, 00:54 BST. It is believed to have started on the fourth floor and spread incredibly quickly. Forty fire engines and around 200 firefighters went to tackle the blaze.

Aylee -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 7:03:28 AM)
Very sad and I really hope this was not "foul play."

Greta75 -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 7:10:23 AM)
I can't wait to find out the cause of the fire because, I would think buildings have water sprinkles to prevent such a crazy thing from happening. So coincidentally that the sprinkles failed. Seem like the fire just spread so fast! And how the hell did it happen! It's like 9/11 in London without the plane crashing into it! And we had so many times, one unit got set on fire in my country, we all live in tall buildings like this, but never once has there been an incident where the flames spread like this to engulf a whole building, despite not having water sprinkles in our residential units. I wonder if our walls are made of fire retardant material.

WickedsDesire -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 7:12:51 AM)
hard to say whether it was accidental or eg arson etc- there are other details to the story i didn't include - like the community warning they were a fire hazard a mere year ago - the owner will get fuked for that. But fuk it looked like the Towering Inferno. The death toll will probably go up :(

WickedsDesire -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 7:14:14 AM)
They just finished a 10 million refit last year or something greta75

tj444 -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 7:20:44 AM)
I am interested in finding out why it spread so fast.. werent the fire sprinklers working? did the fire spread up the outside wall (where there arent any sprinklers)? another post on another site said there had been several complaints about this building not being up to code/compliance on fire safety, so makes me wonder if this was possibly partly or fully preventable.. I guess we will find out eventually.. but about 15 or 20 years ago here in the US there was a massive recall of fire sprinklers cuz over time they rusted and didnt turn on when they were needed.. I wonder how many people died until they figured that out.. and how long did they hesitate on issuing the recall on those... There are smoke-fire hoods, this one is $190US but it can save lives in this kinda situation.. http://elmridgeprotection.com/

Greta75 -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 7:23:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 werent the fire sprinklers working? I read that there was fire sprinklers failure. That if the sprinklers had worked, this couldn't have possibly happened. So we know the fire sprinklers failed.

HaveRopeWillBind -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 7:31:29 AM)
Here in the US all the news is currently focused on the shootings this morning at Congressional baseball practice in Alexandria, VA, but earlier this morning ABC news was reporting that part of the recent upgrade to the building included some sort of outer cladding for aesthetic purposes and to also add insulation. Apparently this cladding carried the fire upward outside the building and that was how it spread so quickly. Even if the building had been equipped with sprinklers, they would not have been effective on the outside of the walls. Having the outer layer burning likely contributed to the way the entire building seemed to be on fire at once in the news videos I have seen. It's rare for a concrete building to seem to burn that way. Hopefully if it was the outer perimeter of the building burning first that may have left inner escape routes open longer. Though I suspect many will have succumbed to smoke inhalation long before flames reached them. Truly a tragic event.

Greta75 -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 7:34:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind Though I suspect many will have succumbed to smoke inhalation long before flames reached them. Truly a tragic event. Then at least they would have died a kinder death. Whoever the developer of that building needs to be responsible for not sufficient fire safety building materials.

tj444 -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 7:52:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind Here in the US all the news is currently focused on the shootings this morning at Congressional baseball practice in Alexandria, VA, but earlier this morning ABC news was reporting that part of the recent upgrade to the building included some sort of outer cladding for aesthetic purposes and to also add insulation. Apparently this cladding carried the fire upward outside the building and that was how it spread so quickly. Even if the building had been equipped with sprinklers, they would not have been effective on the outside of the walls. Having the outer layer burning likely contributed to the way the entire building seemed to be on fire at once in the news videos I have seen. It's rare for a concrete building to seem to burn that way. Hopefully if it was the outer perimeter of the building burning first that may have left inner escape routes open longer. Though I suspect many will have succumbed to smoke inhalation long before flames reached them. Truly a tragic event. I have seen a 3 or 4 storey walk-up apartment that went up cuz there was a fire that started on a 2nd floor balcony & went up the outside of the building and destroyed most of the upper floors.. not much you can do to prevent an outside fire like that.. Had they had them, smoke hoods possibly could have kept some/all of those inside alive long enough to get out without the smoke getting them first..

HaveRopeWillBind -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 7:56:26 AM)
Not to defend the building owner(s), but they did recently put a lot of money into the building upgrade. It's possible that they were advised by contractors that it would be safe to use flammable materials outside the original concrete outer walls under the supposition that the concrete would contain any fire within. I'm sure that the renovation had to be approved as safe by some sort of civil authority when it was done. This seems more like a tragic mistake made under poor advice from the experts, than a deliberate use of potentially dangerous materials that could put the residents in harm. As always with tragedies of this nature mistakes will be identified and building codes will be changed to prevent a repeat.

WickedsDesire -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 8:05:01 AM)
fair assessments.....But they would not be allowed to use flammable cladding. By outer-cladding they almost definitely mean precast concrete - filled with cellulose perhaps, or some other type of insulation. i had quick look at the Washington post this morn so they had that on the main page before that shooting.

WickedsDesire -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 9:04:22 AM)
[image]http://collarspace.com/attachments/061417/D3D2CD87-23D0-4446-B217-A23A724E6D751.jpg[/image]

WickedsDesire -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 9:17:28 AM)
Concerns raised about Grenfell Tower 'for years' The residents of Grenfell Tower had reportedly raised fire safety concerns for several years before the blaze that engulfed the block of flats in west London on Wednesday, according to a community action group. The claim comes as London Fire Brigade said there had been a "number of fatalities" at the tower block. Grenfell Tower in north Kensington was completed in 1974 in the brutalist style of the era, comprising 120 flats over 24 storeys. It received a £10m refurbishment in 2015-16 with the work being carried out by Rydon Construction as part of a £67m borough wide regeneration project. The firm said it was "shocked to hear of the devastating fire", adding the work "met all required building control, fire regulation and health and safety standards". The tower is managed by Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation on behalf of the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea......

WhoreMods -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 9:22:43 AM)
Paget-Brown's got a fucking cheek: he was the leader of the Kensington council when the renovations to the building apparently didn't go far enough to make it a non-hazardous space to live in.

HaveRopeWillBind -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 9:25:22 AM)
I honestly have no idea what is or isn't allowed by building codes in the UK, though presumably they are similar to those of the US. Here flammable vinyl siding is quite common on residential homes and must be allowed by regulation. That has always seemed odd to me since aluminum siding would be safer while offering a nearly identical appearance. Given how Grenfell tower went up so quickly I have to presume that there was something about that cladding that promoted the spread of the fire.

Greta75 -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 9:27:49 AM)
Well, alot of the residents claim that the management ignored all their complains about the building being not fire safe even after the renovations to improve the fire safety. So....., geez, someone needs to be liable for this and I'd say it's the developers of the building for not meeting fire safety standards in the first place! But also, shouldn't there be a building construction authority who are negligent too? Wouldn't they have to inspect the building for fire safety right from the beginning?

Phoenixpower -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 9:28:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 It's like 9/11 in London without the plane crashing into it! Yes I thought the same...already 12 dead, how awful😢

Greta75 -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 9:31:30 AM)
“A disaster waiting to happen,” is how the architect and fire expert Sam Webb describes hundreds of tower blocks across the UK, after the fire at Grenfell Tower in Kensington that has left at least six people dead. “We are still wrapping postwar high-rise buildings in highly flammable materials and leaving them without sprinkler systems installed, then being surprised when they burn down.” A recent £8.7m refurbishment of Grenfell Tower saw the building clad with “ACM cassette rainscreen” panels, an aluminium composite material covering insulation panels, which could have caused the fire to spread more quickly up the facade of the tower. “The issue is that, under building regulations, only the surface of the cladding has to be fire-proofed to class 0, which is about surface spread,” says Tarling. “The stuff behind it doesn’t, and it’s this which has burned.” He says he recently inspected a new-build eight storey block in south-east London where there was no fire protection in the external cavity walls. “The insulation behind the external cladding is flammable polyurethane. I know because I took a chunk out and burned it.” “We have been very concerned about the introduction of highly combustible products into buildings,” he says. “They are often being introduced on the back of the sustainability agenda, but it’s sometimes being done recklessly without due consideration to the consequences. It’s not uncommon for buildings to have blocks of polystyrene up to 30cm deep on the outside, which is an extraordinary quantity of combustible material to be sticking on to a building. There are often ventilation voids between the rainscreen cladding and the insulation to prevent damp, but this also increases the spread of flames.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/14/disaster-waiting-to-happen-fire-expert-slams-uk-tower-blocks

WhoreMods -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/14/2017 9:36:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 Well, alot of the residents claim that the management ignored all their complains about the building being not fire safe even after the renovations to improve the fire safety. So....., geez, someone needs to be liable for this and I'd say it's the developers of the building for not meeting fire safety standards in the first place! But also, shouldn't there be a building construction authority who are negligent too? Wouldn't they have to inspect the building for fire safety right from the beginning? The real appalling thing, Greta, is that almost everybody involved with the renovation is culpable to some degree, but by the time they've all finished passing the buck back and forth, nobody's going to be taken to task for it besides the least senior member of the council's planning department they can make a show of firing.

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