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RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 5:32:24 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
I am surprised you brought up the subject of plastic surgery on under 18s. During my time at the hospital in Singapore it was considered a normal practice

FGM is also legal in Singapore thanks to Muslims, because they claim it's compulsory in their religion so every Muslim woman gets FGM at birth! By their stupid religion orders!

And yes, plastic surgery is legal in Singapore for minors, because of stupid parents obsession to make their daughters look perfect and these days, alot of crazy teenage chinese girls wanna look identical to anime characters.

But I am against it, and I walk my talk, I have spoken about this. I believe in embracing your natural self and body. And I walk the talk by even refusing to wear make up. I never do.

I am also against male circumcision and frown at every religion who enforces it. I also think male circumcision at birth should be illegal.

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 21

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 5:40:20 AM

Greta75

Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

That's why it's illegal, Greta.

The topic is about a state in US who refuse to make it illegal. And there are certain degree of FGM that is legal in the US still. Like the type legal in my country. One that will not take away their orgasms. Infact the Muslims in my country claim it increases sensitivity and brings better orgasms. And potentially that may be true since I know BDSM western white women who intentionally go do FGM on themselves to improve their sensitivity for orgasms.

I am on the camp that it should be universally banned for good for minors who can't make their own decisions anyway. I can't be bothered what an adult women wanna do. Mutilation of any baby from their natural state is what I am against! And I will never understand why any country would hesitate to ban it completely.

My own country is a different story. Indigenous people are Muslims. We are the invaders so we can't come in and tell them they can't do it when they been doing it for years before we trespass their land. It would be like invading some African tribe and telling them, they can't do it.

But I am pretty sure FGM is not a Native American culture. The US shouldn't even be on the fence about this.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 7/14/2017 5:42:47 AM >

(in reply to longwayhome)

Post #: 22

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 5:43:12 AM

BoscoX

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Joined: 12/10/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

That's why it's illegal, Greta.

And there have been successful prosecutions in a number of countries, many of whom you slam as being pro-Muslim.

I don't see anyone defending FGM round here so I'm not sure why we keep manufacturing some big left/right controversy about it. Interestingly it was the left and feminist groups who did most to push for effective laws in the UK, but it's certainly not a left/right issue as the only debate was about how to tackle FGM most effectively and protect children when those carrying it out had a conspiracy of silence.

The upshot is that both doctors and family members have been prosecuted, quite rightly.

I don't see anyone condemning Maine Democrats, I see people lashing out like jackals defending them

On this thread?

Really? Is that really what you see?

Are you deaf and dumb and blind or something

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Post #: 23

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 5:44:50 AM

mnottertail

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its already against the law of our nation.

18 U.S. Code § 116

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(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 24

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 5:50:21 AM

Greta75

Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

its already against the law of our nation.

18 U.S. Code § 116

Which makes it even confusing why is the state so confused whether to just make it illegal as well? It should be straight forward.

But I am pretty sure the way the law is defined permits certain entry level of FGM still.

Which is why a state would even have to make a decision whether to make it completely illegal or not, because there is a certain level of FGM that is still permitted, one that is considered as mild as male circumcision.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 25

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 5:57:16 AM

BoscoX

Posts: 11239
Joined: 12/10/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

its already against the law of our nation.

18 U.S. Code § 116

Which makes it even confusing why is the state so confused whether to just make it illegal as well? It should be straight forward.

But I am pretty sure the way the law is defined permits certain entry level of FGM still.

Which is why a state would even have to make a decision whether to make it completely illegal or not, because there is a certain level of FGM that is still permitted, one that is considered as mild as male circumcision.

He's just another leftist making pathetic excuses defending them

The OP spelled out why the state law is needed

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(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 26

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 6:10:50 AM

Musicmystery

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Joined: 3/14/2005
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Why isn't the Trump Justice department doing its job and enforcing the federal law? I know you don't like selective law enforcement.

And it that law isn't sufficient, why isn't Congress fixing it? I know you're a big proponent of women's health and safety issues, especially Muslim women.

Have you called your representatives?

By the way, advocates have been active:

After the Federal Law against FGM/C was passed in 1996, several states in the U.S. passed laws against the practice of FGM/C. Among them were California, Colorado, Delaware, Illinois, Maryland, Minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, New York, North Dakota, Oregon, Rhodes Island, Tennessee, Texas, West Virginia and Wisconsin. However the Commonwealth of Virginia was not among the listed states. Should the Virginia Senate vote to pass the Bill put forth last week by Senator Black, they will be joining those states that already have laws against the practice of FGM/C in the U.S.

Minnesota, Rhode Island, and Tennessee prohibit the practice of FGM/C on adult women as well as on females under the age of 18. The statutes enacted in California, Colorado, Delaware, Maryland, Missouri, New York, Oregon and West Virginia explicitly address the conduct of a parent or guardian who permits or allows FGM/C to be performed on her or his daughter. In Nevada, a person may be prosecuted for the removal of a child from that state for the purpose of performing FGM/C. California, Colorado, Minnesota, New York, and Oregon have enacted legislation addressing the need for culturally sensitive education and outreach to the relevant communities.

But look at all the red states missing from that list. Don't they care about women? Or Muslim women?

Why isn't this part of the wonderful new health care bill?

Is it because it doesn't cut taxes for wealthy Republicans?

(in reply to BoscoX)

Post #: 27

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 6:20:29 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
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The Jumana Nagarwala and the Attars case is the FIRST case to be tried since 96
this is failure on all sides.
fucking moronic bullshit

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(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 28

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 6:38:54 AM

Greta75

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The big problem is the definition:

whoever knowingly circumcises, excises, or infibulates the whole or any part of the labia majora or labia minora or clitoris of another person who has not attained the age of 18 years

Medically, you can still cut a clit in a way where it does not trespass any of these definition. I feel like they should simply keep it simple to say, "Not allowed to make any changes to affect it's original state".

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 29

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 8:18:28 AM

longwayhome

Posts: 1035
Joined: 1/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

That's why it's illegal, Greta.

And there have been successful prosecutions in a number of countries, many of whom you slam as being pro-Muslim.

I don't see anyone defending FGM round here so I'm not sure why we keep manufacturing some big left/right controversy about it. Interestingly it was the left and feminist groups who did most to push for effective laws in the UK, but it's certainly not a left/right issue as the only debate was about how to tackle FGM most effectively and protect children when those carrying it out had a conspiracy of silence.

The upshot is that both doctors and family members have been prosecuted, quite rightly.

I don't see anyone condemning Maine Democrats, I see people lashing out like jackals defending them

On this thread?

Really? Is that really what you see?

Are you deaf and dumb and blind or something

You just love the aggro don't you.

You set yourself up for a fight, decide what you are fighting about and then you go straight ahead and have that fight with anyone who shows up. Your so busy putting people into pigeon holes of your own making and then deriding them for being there that you don't actually listen to what any "leftie" is actually saying. The only thing you notice is that they are a "leftie".

Maybe if you stopped making your mind up about what you would like other people to say (so that you could fight them) you might actually read and understand their posts.

I'm so glad I don't live in your fantasy world.

And before you come out with some whiny "ad hominem" complaint, just remember that you started it.

(in reply to BoscoX)

Post #: 30

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 8:27:15 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

its already against the law of our nation.

18 U.S. Code § 116

Which makes it even confusing why is the state so confused whether to just make it illegal as well? It should be straight forward.

But I am pretty sure the way the law is defined permits certain entry level of FGM still.

Which is why a state would even have to make a decision whether to make it completely illegal or not, because there is a certain level of FGM that is still permitted, one that is considered as mild as male circumcision.

He's just another leftist making pathetic excuses defending them

The OP spelled out why the state law is needed

aggravated assault is the state law, but state prosecutors can prosecute the federal crime, so sorry felchgobbler gobbles, you are felchgobbling putinjizz here again as usual. The OP does not spell out why the law is needed, it says there is a fucked up state prosecutor, no doubt a nutsucker.

Enforce the law nutsuckers, dont make new laws you wont enforce, just as you are not enforcing laws now.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to BoscoX)

Post #: 31

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 8:45:53 AM

Greta75

Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline

Can somebody explain in states, how are federal law upheld?

Because the whole reason why this state was even considering having clearer defined laws against FGM is that current laws have loopholes which caused FGM cases commited to get away scot-free. As in the law had no power to prosecute it.

I think on one of the biggest loophole are the exceptions that it could be legal for "health reasons". What is considered "health reasons" is again not clearly defined. Thus it could be just some doctor professional opinion. And that doctor could be Muslim. And they got a whole bible of health reasons to give you. And if they are professional official doctors. The court of law has to respect the doctor's advice right? Just like the stupid Charlie Gard case now. MRI shows brain function is fine, but doctors say he is brain dead due to head not growing, so the law can only respect the doctor's professional opinion.

A surgical operation is not a violation of this section if the operation is—
(1) necessary to the health of the person on whom it is performed, and is performed by a person licensed in the place of its performance as a medical practitioner

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/116

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 32

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 9:13:55 AM

longwayhome

Posts: 1035
Joined: 1/9/2008
Status: offline

Do you really think anyone on here is defending FGM?

Interestingly do you think that most Muslims agree with FGM? They certainly do not. It is a culturally specific practice that does not go hand in hand with the religion.

You do understand the concept of all B is A but not all A is B, don't you? No of course you don't.

You will take my comment as a sign that I am a "Muslim-lover", which you argue means that I accept everything every Muslim in the world ever does, including Islamist terrorism. One Muslim does something, they're all to blame, eh?

It starts with the criticism of one US state's approach to FGM and ends up in general Muslim bashing. We didn't even get to the end of the second page of the thread.

At least you are consistent.

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 33

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 9:45:30 AM

BoscoX

Posts: 11239
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Can somebody explain in states, how are federal law upheld?

Because the whole reason why this state was even considering having clearer defined laws against FGM is that current laws have loopholes which caused FGM cases commited to get away scot-free. As in the law had no power to prosecute it.

I think on one of the biggest loophole are the exceptions that it could be legal for "health reasons". What is considered "health reasons" is again not clearly defined. Thus it could be just some doctor professional opinion. And that doctor could be Muslim. And they got a whole bible of health reasons to give you. And if they are professional official doctors. The court of law has to respect the doctor's advice right? Just like the stupid Charlie Gard case now. MRI shows brain function is fine, but doctors say he is brain dead due to head not growing, so the law can only respect the doctor's professional opinion.

A surgical operation is not a violation of this section if the operation is—
(1) necessary to the health of the person on whom it is performed, and is performed by a person licensed in the place of its performance as a medical practitioner

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/116

Alt left trash is far more interested in attacking anyone who stands up for the girls then addressing the facts

Pretty obvious by now

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Post #: 34

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 9:51:29 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

I see people lashing out like jackals defending them

where exactly???

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(in reply to longwayhome)

Post #: 35

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 10:25:53 AM

Greta75

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
Interestingly do you think that most Muslims agree with FGM? T

100% of Muslim people in my country agree with FGM. 100% of Muslim women in my country have been FGMed.

So this is what the Muslims in my country believe in. And they believe this practice is mandated by Muhammad. It's not from their Malay culture. Literally they believe it's mandated by their Prophet. And they quote hadiths for it.

This is the reality in my world, and in my country. You are only in contact with Western born Muslims who may not be brought up in Islamic values and some may be educated with western ideas, but it doesn't mean that they are representative of the real Islam. And an example of Western Born Muslim is like the only that contributes in this forum, but her claim is that, All Muslim countries in the world are practicing fake Islam that only Western Born Muslims are practicing the real Islam because she cannot believe the real Islam practice in whole Islamic countries could possibly be the real Islam. She was brought up in western culture.

I feel like I am around real Muslims, in a country that legally permits certain aspect of Sharia Law. Like 4 wives and Sharia marriage and divorce. Some western born Muslims try to claim that 4 wives is an Arabic practice and nothing to do with Islam, but that's not what Muhammad said.

And am neighbours with 2 whole Muslim countries. Literally the two closest countries to me are full Islamic countries. Malaysia just permitted public caning for breaking Sharia law. Something like 100 lashes for adultery. But Malaysia is assuring non-muslims that it only applies to Muslims, so I guess that's what make them moderate. And Indonesia is the most populous Islamic country who prosecuted their governor for simply saying it's permitted for muslims to vote for non-muslims. That is probably one of the most radical things ever for a moderate Muslim country. And this wasn't even from their most radical part but by their civil government. And the sad bit is, this governor is widely praised and credited for building housing to house the poor and improving roads and infrastructure in jakarta and improving public transport. Despite his good work. All he did ask inform Muslims that they are permitted to vote for him. That got him in jail. Because it's against Islam to say that.

Every Indonesia Chinese I speak to tell me they live in fear in Indonesia. They need to watch very carefully anything they say, like walking on eggshells around Muslims there. The governor of Jakarta who is chinese got made an example of. I just see a very bad religion. And alot of people forbidden to leave the religion in my region.

While the west keeps praising Islam for being peaceful. I just see oppression.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 7/14/2017 10:48:25 AM >

(in reply to longwayhome)

Post #: 36

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 10:36:02 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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well native Maylays are 100% FGM there too.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 37

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 10:39:20 AM

Greta75

Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

well native Maylays are 100% FGM there too.

Yes Malaysia is 100% FGM too but they don't see it as a Malay cultural practice but something they learn from Islam.

So the FGM was not practiced by Malays until Islam conquered them and taught them FGM was promoted by Muhammad.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 38

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 10:44:12 AM

longwayhome

Posts: 1035
Joined: 1/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Can somebody explain in states, how are federal law upheld?

Because the whole reason why this state was even considering having clearer defined laws against FGM is that current laws have loopholes which caused FGM cases commited to get away scot-free. As in the law had no power to prosecute it.

I think on one of the biggest loophole are the exceptions that it could be legal for "health reasons". What is considered "health reasons" is again not clearly defined. Thus it could be just some doctor professional opinion. And that doctor could be Muslim. And they got a whole bible of health reasons to give you. And if they are professional official doctors. The court of law has to respect the doctor's advice right? Just like the stupid Charlie Gard case now. MRI shows brain function is fine, but doctors say he is brain dead due to head not growing, so the law can only respect the doctor's professional opinion.

A surgical operation is not a violation of this section if the operation is—
(1) necessary to the health of the person on whom it is performed, and is performed by a person licensed in the place of its performance as a medical practitioner

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/116

Alt left trash is far more interested in attacking anyone who stands up for the girls then addressing the facts

Pretty obvious by now

Both of you do know the meaning of he word "and" in the highlighted section, don't you? It is not either/or. It means that operations to remove or alter of that part of a women need to be carried out by a licensed medical practitioner, as well as being necessary to their health.

That is not a loophole for doctors to carry out treatment if they deem it necessary (e.g. if they agreed with FGM), that is a clear legal statement that is testable in court. Doctors have been prosecuted in a number of countries for carrying out treatment that doesn't have a clear health need or benefit.

As an aside, despite the suggestion, a court doesn't have to respect a doctor's advice at all. Do either of you understand any principles of jurisprudence? It is quite the opposite. A doctor has to justify his or her actions both to their licensing authority and the courts. I don't know about the United States, but doctors have been prosecuted using clauses very like this in other countries. Greta quotes the Charlie Gard case where she disagrees with what the doctors said to the court but doctors have also lost in court in similar cases in the UK so I don't know where this fantasy of courts always coming own on the side of the doctors comes from.

The main problem with prosecuting people for FGM isn't the state of the law or devious doctors finding legal loopholes - it's catching the perpetrators in the first place because of the conspiracy of silence that surrounds FGM. In other words it isn't necessarily a democrat versus republican issue in the first place.

I know you are looking for a moral panic to rant about but I really think you are barking up the wrong tree as to what the practical problems are here.

< Message edited by longwayhome -- 7/14/2017 10:45:48 AM >

(in reply to BoscoX)

Post #: 39

RE: The Pussyhat Party Goes Easy On Female Genital Muti... - 7/14/2017 10:44:56 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Can somebody explain in states, how are federal law upheld?

Because the whole reason why this state was even considering having clearer defined laws against FGM is that current laws have loopholes which caused FGM cases commited to get away scot-free. As in the law had no power to prosecute it.

I think on one of the biggest loophole are the exceptions that it could be legal for "health reasons". What is considered "health reasons" is again not clearly defined. Thus it could be just some doctor professional opinion. And that doctor could be Muslim. And they got a whole bible of health reasons to give you. And if they are professional official doctors. The court of law has to respect the doctor's advice right? Just like the stupid Charlie Gard case now. MRI shows brain function is fine, but doctors say he is brain dead due to head not growing, so the law can only respect the doctor's professional opinion.

A surgical operation is not a violation of this section if the operation is—
(1) necessary to the health of the person on whom it is performed, and is performed by a person licensed in the place of its performance as a medical practitioner

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/116

Alt left trash is far more interested in attacking anyone who stands up for the girls then addressing the facts

Pretty obvious by now

So is the non alt left trash Congress going to fix the law? Maybe add it to the health care bill?

Is the non alt left trash Trump Justice department going to enforce it?

Or are those fuckers not really interested in women or Muslims anyway?

(in reply to BoscoX)

Post #: 40

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