Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Does Multiculturalism work?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Does Multiculturalism work? Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/21/2017 2:11:15 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline 		It's not not so much a matter of forgetting as much as it is wondering WTF you are talking about in the first place, and wherefrom you dig out this crap.

As pointed out earlier, I go by what's in front of me, i.e. reality, not by fairy tales.

I went to a Catholic school in earliest days, and still the catechism expended no more than two hours a week even then.

My six nephews and nieces and the two kids from the eldest of them (all in US public schools) could only say "wut?" in response to your fantastic assertions.

Honestly, you are not helping matters here in going batshit crazy.

Honestly.

Even your own account says that the girl had no 'religious issues' in her US education, but in fact she was apparently well-read enough on history to have genuine concern about visiting a country who still has a state religion.

And still has a Monarchy.

What aware and thinking child wouldn't be freaked out by that?


(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/21/2017 2:27:11 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

It's not not so much a matter of forgetting as much as it is wondering WTF you are talking about in the first place, and wherefrom you dig out this crap.


This was a YouTube video presented by an American girl who was living and studying in Scotland, Edwird. She assumed that everyone around her in her new milieu in Scotland would be religious, because that's what it had been like in the USA. I didn't 'dig out this crap', it was 'crap' that this American girl felt like sharing, and I happened to come across it.

As a btw - I wasn't responding to anything you'd said. I was responding only to Whoremods's comment and without any reference to you and your points whatsoever. I hope that clears things up.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/21/2017 4:06:10 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
What, because the madrassas are less inclined to ram fundamentalist religion down the kids' throats?


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
I was just suddenly reminded of how much they pump the JC stuff that side of the Pond. One can sometimes forget just how much of a Bible-thumping nation is the USA, versus First World nations.


This from ONE youtube video . . .

But yeah, I clearly misread the intention, here.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/21/2017 6:50:11 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
As I said, that YT video just reminded me - of quite a sharp contrast.

E.g.:

"The thing that strikes me as most odd about the UK’s secularism is the fact that, technically, it is a religiously-affiliated nation, run and represented by the Church of England. There is no separation of church and state, yet it remains fairly separate because of the populace’s laid-back attitude to religion. This is a nation where 33 per cent consider themselves atheist or agnostic and only 15 per cent attend church regularly. The comparative figures for America are 7 percent and around 40 per cent, respectively [figures from religioustolerance.org]. "

http://pondparleys.blogspot.co.uk/2010/09/american-religion-and-british.html

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/21/2017 8:15:17 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline 		https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance

The Gallup International, a self-reporting survey conducted via telephone, indicates that 37% of Americans report that they attend religious services weekly or near-weekly in 2013.[8] Self-reporting surveys conducted online indicate substantially lower weekly attendance rates,[12] and methods of measurement that don't rely on self-reporting estimate even lower rates; for instance, a 2005 study published in the Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion found that just 22% of Americans attend services weekly.

In any case, your assertion was that christianity is crammed down the throats of US children in US schools, which is patently absurd.

Am I lying? Are all my nieces and nephews lying? My friends with kids and the kids themselves would wonder what the feck you are talking about if presented with such tripe.

Get the fuck ahold of yourself.



< Message edited by Edwird -- 7/21/2017 8:19:42 PM >

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/21/2017 11:54:10 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

In any case, your assertion was that christianity is crammed down the throats of US children in US schools, which is patently absurd.



Yes, it is. How is it possible literally to 'cram' religion down the throats of US children anyway? Do you push it down with a sink plunger or similar? I think we are in the presence of *an exaggeration*, Edwird, rather than assertion of facts. Mea culpa. However the observation stands that religion - and especially of a right wing Christian hue - plays a stronger part in general in the USA than here in the UK. Hence the whacky Mike Pence as your creationist Veep, amongst a zillion other symptoms. (53% support for creationism in the USA versus 15% here? Please tell me *this* stat at least is wrong! http://uk.businessinsider.com/americans-vs-british-creationism-or-evolution-2014-11?r=US&IR=T)



_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/22/2017 2:18:24 PM   
longwayhome


Posts: 1035
Joined: 1/9/2008
Status: offline 		The US is in many ways much more religious than the Old World as my relatives who live there would testify. They have been quite shocked by people being so aggressive about it and either making assumptions about my relatives' religion or berating them for not being pious enough.

(For information my relatives are very laid back about religion, despite the fact that my family has been very involved in a very open, non-established UK church.)

I'm not wanting to look like I am sitting on the fence but there is truth in both what you say and what Edwird says.

The UK is very laid back about religious affiliation or atheism and requires no particular religious conviction from politicians or public figures. Indeed it is largely considered to be a private matter which you get on with as opposed to something that you wear on your sleeve. As a consequence politicians who publically proclaim religious convictions tend to be distrusted even by religious people.

The US is far more religious but the education system is not universally so. My relatives' two children attend different schools. One school tries so hard not to be religious including not mentioning Christmas and Easter (only "holidays"). It's almost like an exercise in denial. The other school is full on religion in every single school day with prayers and all the trappings. Explaining to the one child why they couldn't have a nativity play was an exercise in sensitive parenting.

In UK schools no offence is taken by references to Christmas, Ramadan, Divali or any other religious festival. Everyone has a Christmas holiday because that's when the holiday is and many mixed culture schools still have nativity plays - they just have other activities for kids from other religions so they don't have to join in.

Religion is certainly a far more present part of American public, social and media life but it wouldn't be right to say that stems necessarily from the education system.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/22/2017 2:35:32 PM   
blnymph


Posts: 1598
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline 		US relidiotcy and outdated views on monarchy and the relation of religion and state aside (believe it or not - in the rest of the world the year is 2017, not 1776) ...

- this thread is about what is possible in a small town in Ireland.

II remember last year's discussions about how integration of refugees could ever work: Ballyhaunis is just one example how townspeople try and achieve in their own peculiar way to make it work.


(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/22/2017 2:40:07 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

The US is in many ways much more religious than the Old World as my relatives who live there would testify. They have been quite shocked by people being so aggressive about it and either making assumptions about my relatives' religion or berating them for not being pious enough.

(For information my relatives are very laid back about religion, despite the fact that my family has been very involved in a very open, non-established UK church.)

I'm not wanting to look like I am sitting on the fence but there is truth in both what you say and what Edwird says.

The UK is very laid back about religious affiliation or atheism and requires no particular religious conviction from politicians or public figures. Indeed it is largely considered to be a private matter which you get on with as opposed to something that you wear on your sleeve. As a consequence politicians who publically proclaim religious convictions tend to be distrusted even by religious people.

The US is far more religious but the education system is not universally so. My relatives' two children attend different schools. One school tries so hard not to be religious including not mentioning Christmas and Easter (only "holidays"). It's almost like an exercise in denial. The other school is full on religion in every single school day with prayers and all the trappings. Explaining to the one child why they couldn't have a nativity play was an exercise in sensitive parenting.

In UK schools no offence is taken by references to Christmas, Ramadan, Divali or any other religious festival. Everyone has a Christmas holiday because that's when the holiday is and many mixed culture schools still have nativity plays - they just have other activities for kids from other religions so they don't have to join in.

Religion is certainly a far more present part of American public, social and media life but it wouldn't be right to say that stems necessarily from the education system.


I found this:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/leavingfundamentalism/2012/04/23/uk-fundamentalists/

(in reply to longwayhome)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/22/2017 4:36:04 PM   
longwayhome


Posts: 1035
Joined: 1/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

US relidiotcy and outdated views on monarchy and the relation of religion and state aside (believe it or not - in the rest of the world the year is 2017, not 1776) ...

- this thread is about what is possible in a small town in Ireland.

II remember last year's discussions about how integration of refugees could ever work: Ballyhaunis is just one example how townspeople try and achieve in their own peculiar way to make it work.




You are of course correct.

I have tried not to post about multiculturalism as such on this thread because of my strong views in favour of diverse communities, where people live alongside each other but do not have pressure to be the same. Unity is not uniformity.

Sometimes life is just more pleasant when you don't have to do battle with the muslim-haters online and just get on with living with real people in the real world. There's enough shit out there without getting a concentrated dose of it in here sometimes.

From the point of view of the OP, treating newcomers like guests and as an opportunity for sharing might be idealistic but it can work. I can't imagine living in a white monoculture and I'm pleased I don't.

I am however struggling to see positives in the permission to be offensive some people have found through Trump, Brexit and other so-called populist movements. People finding their voice is one thing but so many people actively looking for a fight with people whose main crime is being different to them is hardly community building. Blaming other people for how much you hate them is hardly a good look.

Let's face it we could do with having a more biblical notion of who are neighbours are and what that term means, whether we are religious or not.

(in reply to blnymph)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/22/2017 5:27:41 PM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11227
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome


Sometimes life is just more pleasant when you don't have to do battle with the muslim-haters online and just get on with living with real people in the real world. There's enough shit out there without getting a concentrated dose of it in here sometimes.



You are handicapped. You lack the ability to defend your ignorant views against the real arguments presented by those of us who point out the many very serious issues with the Islamic cult, so you are forced to rely on debate crutches such as this straw man fallacy

I don't hate Muslims, hardly anyone hates Muslims. The problem is their cult teachings which undeniably cause death and suffering wherever that cult spreads

quote:



From the point of view of the OP, treating newcomers like guests and as an opportunity for sharing might be idealistic but it can work. I can't imagine living in a white monoculture and I'm pleased I don't.



Leftists love to obsess over skin color, don't they

quote:



I am however struggling to see positives in the permission to be offensive some people have found through Trump, Brexit and other so-called populist movements. People finding their voice is one thing but so many people actively looking for a fight with people whose main crime is being different to them is hardly community building. Blaming other people for how much you hate them is hardly a good look.



Another pathetic straw man fallacy

The issue is Islamic law, and the demands it makes on Muslims to do horrible things. Non-Muslims are slaughtered every day in the name of Allah, all kinds of horrid punishments against Muslims are meted out for minor offenses against Islam, and women are very often treated as dogs or cattle in their daily lives. This is all documented Islamic law, and many cases of Muslim atrocities carried out in Allah's name make the news daily

These are the real arguments, but you can't refute them so you construct pathetic straw man arguments like those pointed out above because you are a mental midget and such make-believe arguments are the only ones you can refute. Such fallacies are normally the very best any "liberal" can do in any discussion or debate, including this one



_____________________________

Thought Criminal

(in reply to longwayhome)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/22/2017 6:31:40 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline
quote:

Does Multiculturalism work?

Of course it does, it always has and always will, which explains why we have multiple cultures despite all the empires we have had. Totally stupid fucking question.

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/22/2017 7:01:14 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Well, one factor in the US is the history of slavery and then the long continuing legacy of racism. Within this backdrop, instead of multi-culturalism you get different groups pointing fingers at "those people."

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/22/2017 7:37:45 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Two different things my friend... I think it is safe to say we have absorbed a good part of the African culture

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/22/2017 7:50:54 PM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11227
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Well, one factor in the US is the history of slavery and then the long continuing legacy of racism. Within this backdrop, instead of multi-culturalism you get different groups pointing fingers at "those people."


That's extremely stupid. Every race has gone through times of persecution or being held down, what is unusual if for one particular group to become crybaby snowflakes over it for hundreds of years later

I never owned slaves and you never picked cotton.

Get over it


_____________________________

Thought Criminal

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/22/2017 9:58:44 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
It must be nice to be able to just look at a person and know if he/she is an immigrant or not.

I think it's rather easy for Native Americans to recognize who the immigrants are. And not all that difficult for the rest of us to understand our ancestry in any case.


Interesting point of view (and straw man). Is there any way a non-Native American can not be an immigrant? What makes a Native American not an immigrant and a person born here an immigrant?




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/22/2017 10:01:55 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick
quote:

Does Multiculturalism work?

Of course it does, it always has and always will, which explains why we have multiple cultures despite all the empires we have had. Totally stupid fucking question.


FFS, why would you go and respond like that, and ruin all the fun?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/23/2017 4:44:26 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:


Religion is certainly a far more present part of American public, social and media life but it wouldn't be right to say that stems necessarily from the education system.


No, of course that wouldn't be right to say. It's woven into the culture (though that culture varies a lot across the USA - it being a big place). I apologise if I've given the impression otherwise.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to longwayhome)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/23/2017 5:13:33 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Does Multiculturalism work?

Of course it does, it always has and always will, which explains why we have multiple cultures despite all the empires we have had. Totally stupid fucking question.


Multiculturalism is generally thought to imply cultures mixing together in the same society. Such mixing happened less often in the days of yore, of course. I kind of agree with your point in that, these days, multiculturalism *must* work because that's just part of the globalised world we're increasingly living in. Really, the question should be, 'does multiculturalism work *well*'?

In the empires of the past multiculturalism tended to work imperfectly, shall we say. The powder keg that finally exploded in India under the British Raj in the 1940s is one fine example. On the other hand, and re the usefulness of games in Tweakabelle's video: after that came *cricket*. Now, me, I can't stand cricket. But ever since I was a kid I've always loved how teams representing the former Brit colonies will play amicably together. To put it in the ponderous sociologists are wont to use - specifically by an old Indian sociology student friend of mine - 'great games can lubricate cultural interaction'.



_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Does Multiculturalism work? - 7/23/2017 8:16:42 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

I never owned slaves and you never picked cotton. Get over it


Yeah, get over it FFS! At the end of the Civil War four million freed blacks needed jobs so they all went to the Tuskegee Institute. The men studied football, basketball and aeronautical engineering in anticipation of a brighter future. The women studied house cleaning, bus riding and tennis. (They were all named Serena and Venus somehow)

The Southland was economically devastated after the war, however, and in need of labor, for which they were loathe to pay because they never had before.

The 13th Amendment prohibited forced labor except in prisons. So, the Southern States passed stringent laws. For example, seven years in prison for stealing a pig worth $1.00 at the time, or for looking in the face of a white woman, and such other terrible offenses. The prison farms were quickly overflowing with black laborers, who found themselves right back picking cotton.

Before long the prison wardens started renting out their prisoners to local industry and the new South was able to industrialize. All that industry needed good roads so the prisoners were allowed to join chain gangs and work out in the fresh air on the new roads.

Some blacks were fortunately allowed to share crop a piece of the old plantation. They received a portion of the crop. Of course they were required to purchase seed and equipment from the plantation owner (at substantial interest rates) and live in shacks provided by the owner at substantial rents. Lordy, Lordy! Pickin’ cotton, Dixieland, Dixieland.

Peonage slavery (aka debt slavery) was introduced to the Southland when New Mexico became a state. The NFL and the NBA were still not born. A sheriff would confront a black man and claim he owed the sheriff say $1800. Over his protests the black man was taken before a Justice of the Peace, tried and sentenced to seven years for his debt, and forced to work as a debt prisoner.

In 1907 a white plantation owner was tried for breaking the new Federal anti-peonage law. His defense was that all those workers on his farm did not owe him any money. They were simply slaves. What!! Never mind the 13th had prohibited forced labor, Congress had never passed a law to enforce the 13th, so the plantation owner was found not guilty of peonage enslavement and since there was no law against slavery he was set free. Just fucking amazing! The first guilty verdict for peonage enslavement was handed down finally in 1947.

After WW1 returning veterans found their jobs had been taken by blacks who had migrated north, so in 1921 there were race riots in some 25 cities instigated by white men to get their jobs back. It was a nasty year.

A whole bunch of blacks were lynched in the 1920, 1930s, and into the 1940s until the Second World War broke out. Lynchings were festive occasions for white towns folk. They brought their picnic baskets and had a wonderful time.

By the end of WW2 there were Federal Laws against slavery and peonage slavery, and Cool Hand Luke ended the prison farms (sorta)

The final bastion of enforced labor ended in 1960 when the McCormick Combine was introduced to the cotton fields and replaced all those share cropper cotton pickers.

So, blacks migrated north where they found no jobs and were “forced” to live on reservations called city housing projects. The blacks rioted in Newark and Detroit in 1967 and notably in Watts in 1995 (?) after Rodney King’s cop-attackers were acquitted. And OJ maybe got away with murder.

Today, the ghettos have spread out into the suburban rings around the cities, where there are a few more opportunities. The NFL and NBA are enlisting blacks (also the WNBA) Serena and Venus are doing well. The only thing blacks have to worry about is getting a good education, finding a job no Mexican wants, and being shot by cops. Free at last, free at last!

So yeah, get over it.. . . it was so long ago, FFS.


< Message edited by vincentML -- 7/23/2017 8:25:26 AM >

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 100
Page:   <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Does Multiculturalism work? Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109