quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

So should gay bakers be forced to bake a cake that says 'Gays are the evil spawn of satan', or cater any party advocating the same?

Writing is totally different than baking & applying the icing. Something like that can be done with a $2 bottle of frosting. So no, it's offensive, and invokes Satan. And most bakeries would flat out refuse any such thing.

I'm not saying that there isn't a step in the process of preparing the cake that may have been over the limits. But that step could have been left undone.

And since we've had this thread before, I can cite the same example I did so long ago.

A bakery may not have a suitable cake topper for a same-sex wedding cake. I don't believe they should be forced to. The couple can order it online and put it on at the reception.

But there is no religious significance given to cake in the Bible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

What is the religious penalty of taking part in such an event? A Lord's Prayer? Lighting a candle? Eighteen Hail Marys?

Would refusing to bake the cake not also have risks of violating Christian beliefs, as well as State law? "Love thy neighbor" and such?

And if there is no right answer, aren't Christians taught to pray for forgiveness on a daily basis anyway?

They are also taught not to think that asking forgiveness when you deliberately decide to consistently
are going to violate you believes is hypocritical.

Yet so many decisions create no-win situations. Pray for guidance, do the best you can, and then pray for forgiveness regardless.

Do you refuse to bake the cake because it's your place as a Christian to judge sexual immorality, or do you bake it joyfully, in the spirit of 'loving thy neighbor', with the faith that God will judge us all when it's time?

So unlike other people (nobody complain when Moslem refuse to do a gay wedding) Christians should not only violate their beliefs but
should do so cheerfully. The point is that any law that demands the violate their beliefs is wrong.

If you can't prove a belief with the holiest book of your faith, then I don't see how you can show your religious beliefs have been violated in any way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

What is the religious penalty of taking part in such an event? A Lord's Prayer? Lighting a candle? Eighteen Hail Marys?

Would refusing to bake the cake not also have risks of violating Christian beliefs, as well as State law? "Love thy neighbor" and such?

And if there is no right answer, aren't Christians taught to pray for forgiveness on a daily basis anyway?

They are also taught not to think that asking forgiveness when you deliberately decide to consistently
are going to violate you believes is hypocritical.

Yet so many decisions create no-win situations. Pray for guidance, do the best you can, and then pray for forgiveness regardless.

Do you refuse to bake the cake because it's your place as a Christian to judge sexual immorality, or do you bake it joyfully, in the spirit of 'loving thy neighbor', with the faith that God will judge us all when it's time?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

So should gay bakers be forced to bake a cake that says 'Gays are the evil spawn of satan', or cater any party advocating the same?

Writing is totally different than baking & applying the icing. Something like that can be done with a $2 bottle of frosting. So no, it's offensive, and invokes Satan. And most bakeries would flat out refuse any such thing.

I'm not saying that there isn't a step in the process of preparing the cake that may have been over the limits. But that step could have been left undone.

And since we've had this thread before, I can cite the same example I did so long ago.

A bakery may not have a suitable cake topper for a same-sex wedding cake. I don't believe they should be forced to. The couple can order it online and put it on at the reception.

But there is no religious significance given to cake in the Bible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

something extra to tack onto your thoughts nnanji:

"Ten Reasons Why Liberals Hate Christians"

"look blinker, no townhall!"

quote:


1) Liberals are relativists and hate Christians because Christians believe in absolute truth.


2) Liberals do not want anyone to say that immorality is immoral.


3) Liberals are selfish and are more interested in their "feelings" then they are with what is right for others.


4) Liberals misunderstand what Christians really believe.


5) Since liberals see themselves as the superior enlighten ones they do not recognize that taking a position against their position is not automatically hate.


6) Liberals do not want to listen to what makes sense, they would rather listen to their senses.


7) Liberals ignore the clear evidence of the result of their philosophical positions influence on the last 40 years. It had been a social disaster and they do not want to hear it.


8) They see Christians as intellectually inferior.


9) Liberals see Christians as wanting to impose their religion on them when in truth it is the liberals who have used the courts system to impose their secular humanism religion on all of us.


10) Liberals are spiritually lost and blind to the truth of the gospel. Consider the following bible verses:


"But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14

http://www.worldviewweekend.com/news/article/ten-reasons-why-liberals-hate-christians

Seriously?

Because there are no Christians that are liberals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

something extra to tack onto your thoughts nnanji:

"Ten Reasons Why Liberals Hate Christians"

look blinker, no townhall!

quote:


1) Liberals are relativists and hate Christians because Christians believe in absolute truth.


2) Liberals do not want anyone to say that immorality is immoral.


3) Liberals are selfish and are more interested in their "feelings" then they are with what is right for others.


4) Liberals misunderstand what Christians really believe.


5) Since liberals see themselves as the superior enlighten ones they do not recognize that taking a position against their position is not automatically hate.


6) Liberals do not want to listen to what makes sense, they would rather listen to their senses.


7) Liberals ignore the clear evidence of the result of their philosophical positions influence on the last 40 years. It had been a social disaster and they do not want to hear it.


8) They see Christians as intellectually inferior.


9) Liberals see Christians as wanting to impose their religion on them when in truth it is the liberals who have used the courts system to impose their secular humanism religion on all of us.


10) Liberals are spiritually lost and blind to the truth of the gospel. Consider the following bible verses:


"But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14

http://www.worldviewweekend.com/news/article/ten-reasons-why-liberals-hate-christians

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

What is the religious penalty of taking part in such an event? A Lord's Prayer? Lighting a candle? Eighteen Hail Marys?

Would refusing to bake the cake not also have risks of violating Christian beliefs, as well as State law? "Love thy neighbor" and such?

And if there is no right answer, aren't Christians taught to pray for forgiveness on a daily basis anyway?

They are also taught not to think that asking forgiveness when you deliberately decide to consistently
are going to violate you believes is hypocritical.

Yet so many decisions create no-win situations. Pray for guidance, do the best you can, and then pray for forgiveness regardless.

Do you refuse to bake the cake because it's your place as a Christian to judge sexual immorality, or do you bake it joyfully, in the spirit of 'loving thy neighbor', with the faith that God will judge us all when it's time?

So unlike other people (nobody complain when Moslem refuse to do a gay wedding) Christians should not only violate their beliefs but
should do so cheerfully. The point is that any law that demands the violate their beliefs is wrong.

If you can't prove a belief with the holiest book of your faith, then I don't see how you can show your religious beliefs have been violated in any way.

Once again, you seem to think religion comes with an instruction manual.

There is a reason the constitution says what it does about religion.

You dont want to bake a cake for a christian that says 'gays are satans spawn' because it runs contrary to your religion, and what manual can you place in the court to express your religious position. That is by the way the context in which magnificent magnanimous scrotumus maximus passed gay marriage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

The first state to legalize gay marriage, thanks to the judiciary? Irony.

well if the US was not an established religion it would never have been outlawed in the first place ever think about that?

I don't wholly disagree. The religious beliefs of our lawmakers have colored the laws of the land since the beginning, and I don't think that's been entirely a bad thing, but our Judicial system is in place for balance.

Richard Nixon passed one of the absolute best and worst federal laws against child abuse and neglect we've ever had. Because two of his assistants were Christian Scientists, it has exemptions for religious beliefs, and States were required to adopt those exemptions themselves, to receive federal funding.

I believe that part of the law is likely unconstitutional, and endangers children because of their parents'
supposed religious beliefs. Any belief that undermines the sanctity of life has no place in the modern world.

So you are against abortion then.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

What is the religious penalty of taking part in such an event? A Lord's Prayer? Lighting a candle? Eighteen Hail Marys?

Would refusing to bake the cake not also have risks of violating Christian beliefs, as well as State law? "Love thy neighbor" and such?

And if there is no right answer, aren't Christians taught to pray for forgiveness on a daily basis anyway?

They are also taught not to think that asking forgiveness when you deliberately decide to consistently
are going to violate you believes is hypocritical.

Yet so many decisions create no-win situations. Pray for guidance, do the best you can, and then pray for forgiveness regardless.

Do you refuse to bake the cake because it's your place as a Christian to judge sexual immorality, or do you bake it joyfully, in the spirit of 'loving thy neighbor', with the faith that God will judge us all when it's time?

if you do the latter, there are people in the church who would/should understand that position. if you do the former, there are people in the world (as opposed to the church) who SHOULD understand it---but they don't.

I might have mentioned this before somewhere here---I used to love the tv show everwood and in one of the better episodes, one of the doctor's young patients got pregnant and wanted an abortion. she was going to travel to a far away city to get it but the doctor, who was a staunch catholic and pro-life, decided since she was his patient, he would do the procedure. if I remember rightly, the episode ends with his walking down the aisle in a church heading towards the confessional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

What is the religious penalty of taking part in such an event? A Lord's Prayer? Lighting a candle? Eighteen Hail Marys?

Would refusing to bake the cake not also have risks of violating Christian beliefs, as well as State law? "Love thy neighbor" and such?

And if there is no right answer, aren't Christians taught to pray for forgiveness on a daily basis anyway?

They are also taught not to think that asking forgiveness when you deliberately decide to consistently
are going to violate you believes is hypocritical.

Yet so many decisions create no-win situations. Pray for guidance, do the best you can, and then pray for forgiveness regardless.

Do you refuse to bake the cake because it's your place as a Christian to judge sexual immorality, or do you bake it joyfully, in the spirit of 'loving thy neighbor', with the faith that God will judge us all when it's time?

So unlike other people (nobody complain when Moslem refuse to do a gay wedding) Christians should not only violate their beliefs but
should do so cheerfully. The point is that any law that demands the violate their beliefs is wrong.

If you can't prove a belief with the holiest book of your faith, then I don't see how you can show your religious beliefs have been violated in any way.

Once again, you seem to think religion comes with an instruction manual.

There is a reason the constitution says what it does about religion.

You dont want to bake a cake for a christian that says 'gays are satans spawn' because it runs contrary to your religion, and what manual can you place in the court to express your religious position. That is by the way the context in which magnificent magnanimous scrotumus maximus passed gay marriage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

What is the religious penalty of taking part in such an event? A Lord's Prayer? Lighting a candle? Eighteen Hail Marys?

Would refusing to bake the cake not also have risks of violating Christian beliefs, as well as State law? "Love thy neighbor" and such?

And if there is no right answer, aren't Christians taught to pray for forgiveness on a daily basis anyway?

They are also taught not to think that asking forgiveness when you deliberately decide to consistently
are going to violate you believes is hypocritical.

Yet so many decisions create no-win situations. Pray for guidance, do the best you can, and then pray for forgiveness regardless.

Do you refuse to bake the cake because it's your place as a Christian to judge sexual immorality, or do you bake it joyfully, in the spirit of 'loving thy neighbor', with the faith that God will judge us all when it's time?

So unlike other people (nobody complain when Moslem refuse to do a gay wedding) Christians should not only violate their beliefs but
should do so cheerfully. The point is that any law that demands the violate their beliefs is wrong.

If you can't prove a belief with the holiest book of your faith, then I don't see how you can show your religious beliefs have been violated in any way.

Once again, you seem to think religion comes with an instruction manual.

There is a reason the constitution says what it does about religion.

You dont want to bake a cake for a christian that says 'gays are satans spawn' because it runs contrary to your religion, and what manual can you place in the court to express your religious position. That is by the way the context in which magnificent magnanimous scrotumus maximus passed gay marriage.

See, I never said I wouldn't bake the cake. Or add the sweet buttercream icing, maybe some pretty roses.

But as you see from the pictures in our book, customized writing options on any cake can only include "Happy Birthday", "Congratulations", and "Happy Anniversary", with your choice of names added.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

something extra to tack onto your thoughts nnanji:

"Ten Reasons Why Liberals Hate Christians"

"look blinker, no townhall!"

quote:


1) Liberals are relativists and hate Christians because Christians believe in absolute truth.


2) Liberals do not want anyone to say that immorality is immoral.


3) Liberals are selfish and are more interested in their "feelings" then they are with what is right for others.


4) Liberals misunderstand what Christians really believe.


5) Since liberals see themselves as the superior enlighten ones they do not recognize that taking a position against their position is not automatically hate.


6) Liberals do not want to listen to what makes sense, they would rather listen to their senses.


7) Liberals ignore the clear evidence of the result of their philosophical positions influence on the last 40 years. It had been a social disaster and they do not want to hear it.


8) They see Christians as intellectually inferior.


9) Liberals see Christians as wanting to impose their religion on them when in truth it is the liberals who have used the courts system to impose their secular humanism religion on all of us.


10) Liberals are spiritually lost and blind to the truth of the gospel. Consider the following bible verses:


"But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14

http://www.worldviewweekend.com/news/article/ten-reasons-why-liberals-hate-christians

Seriously?

Because there are no Christians that are liberals.

Oh way to have a discussion, as you always say you want to do.

quote:



Which is why I've decided that if I ever get pregnant, I'm keeping the baby.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

my point of course being that there are rights at stake, and no one to date has been able to show me any exceptions what so ever for da gubmint to regulate even a little bit religion, speech, arms, privacy, or keep the fact that a jury has the both the right and authority to not only try the facts, but also judge the law, and throw out even supreme court decisions by acquittal, one of the best kept judicial secrets in their negligence to properly inform jurys of their duty to their fellow man and country,.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

something extra to tack onto your thoughts nnanji:

"Ten Reasons Why Liberals Hate Christians"

"look blinker, no townhall!"

quote:


1) Liberals are relativists and hate Christians because Christians believe in absolute truth.


2) Liberals do not want anyone to say that immorality is immoral.


3) Liberals are selfish and are more interested in their "feelings" then they are with what is right for others.


4) Liberals misunderstand what Christians really believe.


5) Since liberals see themselves as the superior enlighten ones they do not recognize that taking a position against their position is not automatically hate.


6) Liberals do not want to listen to what makes sense, they would rather listen to their senses.


7) Liberals ignore the clear evidence of the result of their philosophical positions influence on the last 40 years. It had been a social disaster and they do not want to hear it.


8) They see Christians as intellectually inferior.


9) Liberals see Christians as wanting to impose their religion on them when in truth it is the liberals who have used the courts system to impose their secular humanism religion on all of us.


10) Liberals are spiritually lost and blind to the truth of the gospel. Consider the following bible verses:


"But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14

http://www.worldviewweekend.com/news/article/ten-reasons-why-liberals-hate-christians

Seriously?

Because there are no Christians that are liberals.

Oh way to have a discussion, as you always say you want to do.

Nope, never said that. Now go troll someone else.

quote:



And I had a genuine interest in what you might have provided to the discussion, so that I could compare it to what I am hearing locally about our projects and explore the differences. But since you seem more interested in handing out snark to everyone rather than actually discussing the topic, I don't really care else you have to say about it now.

(in reply to Nnanji)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

my point of course being that there are rights at stake, and no one to date has been able to show me any exceptions what so ever for da gubmint to regulate even a little bit religion, speech, arms, privacy, or keep the fact that a jury has the both the right and authority to not only try the facts, but also judge the law, and throw out even supreme court decisions by acquittal, one of the best kept judicial secrets in their negligence to properly inform jurys of their duty to their fellow man and country,.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

my point of course being that there are rights at stake, and no one to date has been able to show me any exceptions what so ever for da gubmint to regulate even a little bit religion, speech, arms, privacy, or keep the fact that a jury has the both the right and authority to not only try the facts, but also judge the law, and throw out even supreme court decisions by acquittal, one of the best kept judicial secrets in their negligence to properly inform jurys of their duty to their fellow man and country,.

You seem comfortable breaking the Eighth Commandment. "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour". You're willing to lie about your religious beliefs, citing an established religion, which says nothing about requiring abstinence from such events, or risking your immortal soul.

It's the abuses of people who claim religious superiority that makes religion so evil.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

something extra to tack onto your thoughts nnanji:

"Ten Reasons Why Liberals Hate Christians"

"look blinker, no townhall!"

quote:


1) Liberals are relativists and hate Christians because Christians believe in absolute truth.


2) Liberals do not want anyone to say that immorality is immoral.


3) Liberals are selfish and are more interested in their "feelings" then they are with what is right for others.


4) Liberals misunderstand what Christians really believe.


5) Since liberals see themselves as the superior enlighten ones they do not recognize that taking a position against their position is not automatically hate.


6) Liberals do not want to listen to what makes sense, they would rather listen to their senses.


7) Liberals ignore the clear evidence of the result of their philosophical positions influence on the last 40 years. It had been a social disaster and they do not want to hear it.


8) They see Christians as intellectually inferior.


9) Liberals see Christians as wanting to impose their religion on them when in truth it is the liberals who have used the courts system to impose their secular humanism religion on all of us.


10) Liberals are spiritually lost and blind to the truth of the gospel. Consider the following bible verses:


"But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14

http://www.worldviewweekend.com/news/article/ten-reasons-why-liberals-hate-christians

Seriously?

Because there are no Christians that are liberals.

Oh way to have a discussion, as you always say you want to do.

Nope, never said that. Now go troll someone else.

Well, you are a liar, you just want to sound all sensible. I think you said this yesterday, or the day before whenever was the last time we chatted.

quote:



And I had a genuine interest in what you might have provided to the discussion, so that I could compare it to what I am hearing locally about our projects and explore the differences. But since you seem more interested in handing out snark to everyone rather than actually discussing the topic, I don't really care else you have to say about it now.

(in reply to Nnanji)

In which conversation you also lied.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

something extra to tack onto your thoughts nnanji:

"Ten Reasons Why Liberals Hate Christians"

"look blinker, no townhall!"

quote:


1) Liberals are relativists and hate Christians because Christians believe in absolute truth.


2) Liberals do not want anyone to say that immorality is immoral.


3) Liberals are selfish and are more interested in their "feelings" then they are with what is right for others.


4) Liberals misunderstand what Christians really believe.


5) Since liberals see themselves as the superior enlighten ones they do not recognize that taking a position against their position is not automatically hate.


6) Liberals do not want to listen to what makes sense, they would rather listen to their senses.


7) Liberals ignore the clear evidence of the result of their philosophical positions influence on the last 40 years. It had been a social disaster and they do not want to hear it.


8) They see Christians as intellectually inferior.


9) Liberals see Christians as wanting to impose their religion on them when in truth it is the liberals who have used the courts system to impose their secular humanism religion on all of us.


10) Liberals are spiritually lost and blind to the truth of the gospel. Consider the following bible verses:


"But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14

http://www.worldviewweekend.com/news/article/ten-reasons-why-liberals-hate-christians

Seriously?

Because there are no Christians that are liberals.

Oh way to have a discussion, as you always say you want to do.

Nope, never said that. Now go troll someone else.

Well, you are a liar, you just want to sound all sensible. I think you said this yesterday, or the day before whenever was the last time we chatted.

quote:



And I had a genuine interest in what you might have provided to the discussion, so that I could compare it to what I am hearing locally about our projects and explore the differences. But since you seem more interested in handing out snark to everyone rather than actually discussing the topic, I don't really care else you have to say about it now.

(in reply to Nnanji)

In which conversation you also lied.

Nope, you said that I said I always wanted to have a discussion. Never said that. The fact that I tried, and failed, to have one with you at one time does not mean that I always do. Sometimes I just make comments.

I did not lie. Either time.