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[Poll]

Are cakes art?


No: thinking that they are is really gay
  35% (10)
No: of course they're not
  3% (1)
Don't know
  0% (0)
Don't care
  17% (5)
Maybe if they're really good cakes
  7% (2)
Yes: anybody who can charge for a made to order cake is an artisan
  28% (8)
Yes: if Haring and Koon's smug whiffle is art, so's a fancy cake
  7% (2)


Total Votes : 28
(last vote on : 9/27/2017 6:35:01 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 2:16:19 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		there is no "imposing" involved---the customers are not required to accept the Christian faith.

the only imposing that occurs is when the states comes in and says, by force of law, you have to violate your religious principles in order to stay in business/not face a fine, etc.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 2:27:47 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Cup holders were common in the 60's
The car would have had to have been 30 years old.
I find it strange that whatever country she lived in at the time mentioned more than
we got here when I lived within 100 miles of the incident.


On the contrary, cup holders were an extra option on only the high dollar luxury cars in the 1960s. You bought a 49 cent plastic cup holder that slid into the side window slot if you needed a cup holder.

Cup holders didn't become a common thing until the 1990s when they started leaving out ash trays and had to have SOMETHING to enable the fashionable caffeine addiction.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 2:32:23 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Explain to me how a person is violating their faith by providing a product. The same product that would have been provided by the business owner who was doing the same for a het couple.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 2:42:47 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		this has been discussed over and over. its not "just" a product. its a lending of their services to an act with which they disagree on religious principles.

the implication of which is, its a violation of their faith.


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 2:49:26 PM   
Made2Obey


Posts: 357
Joined: 8/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Explain to me how a person is violating their faith by providing a product. The same product that would have been provided by the business owner who was doing the same for a het couple.



Well, if a person's faith dictates that marriage is a union of a man and a woman, and a man and a woman ONLY, then forcing that person to provide a product that celebrates/symbolizes such unions for a couple that is not male and female, then yes, that would violate his/her faith.
The baker is obviously deeply committed to his faith since he shut down his bakery and his source of income rather than violate the tenants of his faith.
In the end all the gay couple accomplished was to deny the baker's service to anyone.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 2:49:43 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Cup holders were common in the 60's
The car would have had to have been 30 years old.
I find it strange that whatever country she lived in at the time mentioned more than
we got here when I lived within 100 miles of the incident.


On the contrary, cup holders were an extra option on only the high dollar luxury cars in the 1960s. You bought a 49 cent plastic cup holder that slid into the side window slot if you needed a cup holder.

Cup holders didn't become a common thing until the 1990s when they started leaving out ash trays and had to have SOMETHING to enable the fashionable caffeine addiction.

But we are talking about an 89 so it doesn't matter.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 2:52:45 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Made2Obey


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Explain to me how a person is violating their faith by providing a product. The same product that would have been provided by the business owner who was doing the same for a het couple.



Well, if a person's faith dictates that marriage is a union of a man and a woman, and a man and a woman ONLY, then forcing that person to provide a product that celebrates/symbolizes such unions for a couple that is not male and female, then yes, that would violate his/her faith.
The baker is obviously deeply committed to his faith since he shut down his bakery and his source of income rather than violate the tenants of his faith.
In the end all the gay couple accomplished was to deny the baker's service to anyone.


Walmart refuses to do a cake with a Confederate Flag, that discriminates against some people.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Made2Obey)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 2:53:19 PM   
Made2Obey


Posts: 357
Joined: 8/21/2008
Status: offline 		My 89 Subaru had cup holders, and it certainly wasn't a high end car, just a daily driver type.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 2:55:20 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		But it's not a "violation of faith" for other things.

When a person goes into business, collecting state tax for their "art," they accept that they must treat people equally.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 2:56:11 PM   
Made2Obey


Posts: 357
Joined: 8/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Walmart refuses to do a cake with a Confederate Flag, that discriminates against some people.


Good point, and that doesn't even involve religion. And you don't see anyone suing them over it either.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 2:58:56 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Made2Obey

My 89 Subaru had cup holders, and it certainly wasn't a high end car, just a daily driver type.

And since that is the car she was in any reasonably intelligent person would have used it.
My 84 colt had them to as did my 90 ranger and both had ash trays.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Made2Obey)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 3:00:24 PM   
Made2Obey


Posts: 357
Joined: 8/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

But it's not a "violation of faith" for other things.

When a person goes into business, collecting state tax for their "art," they accept that they must treat people equally.



According to that logic, if I ran a ballet school for little girls I would have no choice but to accept a middle-aged known predator as a student because the state demands that I charge tax, or I am violating his rights.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 3:02:07 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		lost me on that one---youre suggesting that the presence of a sales tax that goes to the state necessitates treating people equally?

the essential question is---when there is conflict, who is best to solve it? the parties in question, the free market, or the government.

if we want religious liberty, the best options are going to be the first two.

from my perspective, businesses should be free to decline business with whomever they will.

the end of that is not a return to jim crow.

as an aside, I remember years ago Christian landlords getting into trouble by refusing to rent to unmarried couples.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 3:04:18 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Walmart refuses to do a cake with a Confederate Flag, that discriminates against some people.

No, it doesn't.

The difference is that such a design isn't available to ANYONE. The shop refuses to make that kind of cake AT ALL. It's not "we'll make it for you, but not for YOU."

I said this pages ago. An item not available is not discrimination. An item that is for sale, only for certain customers is a violation of law.




_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 3:06:21 PM   
Made2Obey


Posts: 357
Joined: 8/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Made2Obey

My 89 Subaru had cup holders, and it certainly wasn't a high end car, just a daily driver type.

And since that is the car she was in any reasonably intelligent person would have used it.
My 84 colt had them to as did my 90 ranger and both had ash trays.


My Subaru had both ashtrays and cup holders front and rear in 89.
However the 89 Ford Probe she was in did not have them. However it DID have a very nice flat shelf on top of the dashboard and directly in front of her, that had plenty of clearance from the windshield to leave room for a Big Gulp cup, much less a normal coffee cup.
I put a pic of an 89 Probe in post # 154 of this thread that shows the interior.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 3:15:45 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Made2Obey


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

But it's not a "violation of faith" for other things.

When a person goes into business, collecting state tax for their "art," they accept that they must treat people equally.



According to that logic, if I ran a ballet school for little girls I would have no choice but to accept a middle-aged known predator as a student because the state demands that I charge tax, or I am violating his rights.


No, now you're just being an idiot.

To use your own example, what law was the gay couple breaking in getting married? Where is the "known predator?"

We're not talking about criminals, dude. We're talking about a couple who wanted a wedding cake.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Made2Obey)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 3:17:48 PM   
Made2Obey


Posts: 357
Joined: 8/21/2008
Status: offline 		But criminals have rights too, and you just said if I collect state tax money, then I am violating the law if I don't serve everyone

Also, this happened in Oregon in 2013, where same sex marriage was not legal until 2014.


< Message edited by Made2Obey -- 9/23/2017 3:23:50 PM >

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 3:23:22 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Made2Obey

But criminals have rights too, and you just said if I collect state tax money, then I am violating the law if I don't serve everyone


Actually, that's not true.

You can deny services to anyone who has infringed on your business. Like bad checks, etc.

Stop trying to impose the idea that gay folks are criminals! That's YOUR discrimination at work.

The couple who was trying to order the cake didn't violate any business practice.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Made2Obey)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 3:25:24 PM   
Made2Obey


Posts: 357
Joined: 8/21/2008
Status: offline 		Except an illegal marriage.

At that time, they actually WERE criminals.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 3:35:00 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Y'all are on a kink site.

If you are ACTUALLY engaging in kink, how does that work?



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Made2Obey)
Profile   Post #: 200
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