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[Poll]

Are cakes art?


No: thinking that they are is really gay
  35% (10)
No: of course they're not
  3% (1)
Don't know
  0% (0)
Don't care
  17% (5)
Maybe if they're really good cakes
  7% (2)
Yes: anybody who can charge for a made to order cake is an artisan
  28% (8)
Yes: if Haring and Koon's smug whiffle is art, so's a fancy cake
  7% (2)


Total Votes : 28
(last vote on : 9/27/2017 6:35:01 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 3:36:25 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		On the conundrum of cakes and marriage.

Personally, I consider the word "marriage" to refer to a religious ceremony. A "domestic partnership" is a secular legal term.

I'm a proponent of legal definitions reflecting the difference. A government has no business trying to define a religious term but should provide equal rights and representation in law to the secular term.

Blow the emotional and religious argument that marriage is one man one woman out of the equation by getting government out of the marriage business.

I don't think that a merchant should be required to provide goods and services over personal ethical or religious objections because I don't share their beliefs. I do see a difference in providing a pastry for a celebration and providing necessary basic service (housing, food, medical access).

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 4:17:53 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		it never ceases to amazing me how fucking stooopid people are.


1960-pontiac-catalina-glove-boxes-cup-holders




1957 Cadillac Eldorado







Porsche cup holders




Vintage original 1960's chevy truck glove compartment box door w cup holder





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 202
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 4:24:52 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

On the conundrum of cakes and marriage.

Personally, I consider the word "marriage" to refer to a religious ceremony. A "domestic partnership" is a secular legal term.

I'm a proponent of legal definitions reflecting the difference. A government has no business trying to define a religious term but should provide equal rights and representation in law to the secular term.

Blow the emotional and religious argument that marriage is one man one woman out of the equation by getting government out of the marriage business.

I don't think that a merchant should be required to provide goods and services over personal ethical or religious objections because I don't share their beliefs. I do see a difference in providing a pastry for a celebration and providing necessary basic service (housing, food, medical access).



I have news for you, it doesnt stop at marriage, marriage is the tip of the iceburg, housing, medical, you name it all have applicable religious elements.

The real problem is the the gubmint dictating its commercial based religion to the people with complete disrespect for the constitution and their promises and convenants made to the same.

Its so entrenched you would literally have to get gubmint out of gubmint at this point to even scratch the surface.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 203
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 4:24:57 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
Evasion doesn't answer my question: is there some reason why she shouldn't be using a car that was made in '89?


Nobody made that claim.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 204
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 4:25:48 PM   
MAINEiacMISTRESS


Posts: 1180
Joined: 9/12/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

it never ceases to amazing me how fucking stooopid people are.


1960-pontiac-catalina-glove-boxes-cup-holders




1957 Cadillac Eldorado







Porsche cup holders




Vintage original 1960's chevy truck glove compartment box door w cup holder






Used to be you could set an entire MEAL with two full-sized soda cups and a box of burgers or KFC with mashed potato & gravy on those glove box hatches. They were huge. Nowadays in modern cars there's barely enough room to sit your overweight hamster.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 205
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 4:32:01 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		You're hurting my head...

Let me put this in bold so you'll hear it...

THE CAR SHE WAS RIDING IN DOESN'T RELIEVE THE COMPANY OF NEGLIGENCE.

The same negligence would have existed no matter where she was putting creamer in the coffee.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 4:34:35 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

You're hurting my head...

Let me put this in bold so you'll hear it...

THE CAR SHE WAS RIDING IN DOESN'T RELIEVE THE COMPANY OF NEGLIGENCE.

The same negligence would have existed no matter where she was putting creamer in the coffee.




negligence is a 2 way street, you fail to accept that 'fact'.

Someone said they were not moving at the time.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 4:41:50 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
I have news for you, it doesnt stop at marriage, marriage is the tip of the iceburg, housing, medical, you name it all have applicable religious elements.

The real problem is the the gubmint dictating its commercial based religion to the people with complete disrespect for the constitution and their promises and convenants made to the same.

Its so entrenched you would literally have to get gubmint out of gubmint at this point to even scratch the surface.
I have news for YOU!

Have you ever been denied 'room at the inn' because you are kinky?

What if you couldn't eat, or have a bed to sleep in due to your sexual orientation?






_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 4:41:55 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
This thread is getting dumber and dumber with every post.
The onus is not on the consumer to ensure that no conditions could exist that the coffee couldn't possibly spill. It's not about why didn't the woman use a cup holder. It's about did the business serve a liquid for consumption that was at a temperature that was dangerously hot enough to cause third degree burns. That puts the liability on the business serving the coffee.
What should really be looked at in the 'are cakes art' debate should be does a person have freedom OF religion, or in business, do they get to IMPOSE that religion on other people? Is a person's "art" more important than the concept of discrimination?


They are not imposing their religion on the gay couple. The gay couple can get married and continue on with their lives. Their lives, beliefs and morals do not hinge on this bakery making a cake for their homosexual wedding. Do you get to demand a Kosher or Halal butcher shop provide you pork? How about a pizza shop owned by a Muslim not using pork pepperoni

[Aside] The beef pepperoni was damn good. I was trying a new pizza joint with my boys and they didn't have Italian sausage as a topping. When I asked about it, the guy at the counter said the owner was Muslim and they had no pork products. The pizza wasn't anything special, so my search for the perfect pizza in my area (found an amazing mom and pop shop 5 hours away with amazing 'za) continues. [/Aside]

Regarding the coffee incident: I feel bad that lady had to go through what she went through. At the same time, putting a to-go coffee cup between your legs is inviting injury, regardless of whether or not your trying to open it. I wonder how hot Starbucks coffee is.....thank you Yahoo!

https://www.eater.com/2017/5/19/15662790/starbucks-hot-coffee-lawsuit-florida-100k
    quote:

    A jury in Florida has found Starbucks at fault for serving hot coffee in cups with faulty lids, according to a release from the plaintiff’s legal firm, Morgan & Morgan.

    The suit centered around a Florida resident who ordered coffee at a Starbucks drive-thru in Jacksonville in 2014. When she received the order — a 20-ounce Venti Pike Place roast — through her drivers’ side window, the coffee cup lid popped off. The 190-degree liquid spilled all over her lap, giving her first- and second-degree burns.

    [Bold Mine]


Apparently, 190° isn't necessarily hotter than to be expected.

Back to the bakery: Does the baker have any choice in what business to accept or decline? Can a baker decline to bake a cake for someone who wants to celebrate white supremacy, for instance?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 4:53:48 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Do y'all read the entire thread or just skip over to what suits you?
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

They are not imposing their religion on the gay couple. The gay couple can get married and continue on with their lives. Their lives, beliefs and morals do not hinge on this bakery making a cake for their homosexual wedding. Do you get to demand a Kosher or Halal butcher shop provide you pork? How about a pizza shop owned by a Muslim not using pork pepperoni

For the love of the stars, pay attention!

The point of LAW is that the bakery is refusing a service based on SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

It's not about a service that isn't available from the business to ANYONE.

The business IS imposing their religion. If they would make the same cake for a het couple,but not a gay one, what do you call that?














_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 5:46:56 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Do y'all read the entire thread or just skip over to what suits you?
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

They are not imposing their religion on the gay couple. The gay couple can get married and continue on with their lives. Their lives, beliefs and morals do not hinge on this bakery making a cake for their homosexual wedding. Do you get to demand a Kosher or Halal butcher shop provide you pork? How about a pizza shop owned by a Muslim not using pork pepperoni

For the love of the stars, pay attention!

The point of LAW is that the bakery is refusing a service based on SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

It's not about a service that isn't available from the business to ANYONE.

The business IS imposing their religion. If they would make the same cake for a het couple,but not a gay one, what do you call that?




The point of LAW that TRUMPS your regulations is the ORGANIC LAW OF THE LAND, called the BILL OF RIGHTS, AMENDMENT #1- THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO EXERCISE THEIR RELIGION.

Any regulation in violation of the RESERVED RIGHTS OF THE PEOPLE is not law.

They refused service because it would cause them to AN ACCESSORY TO THE COMMISSION OF A SIN AGAINST THEIR GOD to suppor the antiChrist gay religion.

Businesses do not have religion proprietors have religion.

Commercial regulations do not trump organic law, if it did we would be changing the constitution every 10 minutes as the flakes changed the regulations per peoples whims.

The only exception is if there is a health danger or emergency.

Hope that helps


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 5:52:18 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
I have news for you, it doesnt stop at marriage, marriage is the tip of the iceburg, housing, medical, you name it all have applicable religious elements.

The real problem is the the gubmint dictating its commercial based religion to the people with complete disrespect for the constitution and their promises and convenants made to the same.

Its so entrenched you would literally have to get gubmint out of gubmint at this point to even scratch the surface.


I have news for YOU!

Have you ever been denied 'room at the inn' because you are kinky?

What if you couldn't eat, or have a bed to sleep in due to your sexual orientation?




you dont have any news for me, you dont even have a legitimate point.

ok fine if you are the only place in town and its freezing and the choice is outside and die or leave them eat and sleep obviously this has to be an exception to the rule

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 6:01:26 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		What 'organic law???

Anybody want to bet me that I couldn't buy a cake from the same shop???



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 213
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 6:10:41 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
The business IS imposing their religion. If they would make the same cake for a het couple,but not a gay one, what do you call that?


Unless the business is dealing in an "essential service" they are within their rights to decline custom for any reason they choose.

Try and get a Halal restaurant to make you "pigs in a blanket" if you want to see another refusal of service on religious grounds.

It doesn't matter why, it is a right not to do business for a reason that makes sense to the businessman.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 214
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 6:16:54 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne



you dont have any news for me, you dont even have a legitimate point.

ok fine if you are the only place in town and its freezing and the choice is outside and die or leave them eat and sleep obviously this has to be an exception to the rule
.
So, if it's life or death, it's ok. That's when prejudice is ok. YOU think prejudice is ok.

It's like this...

I'm a poly person. I've had this happen to me.




_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 215
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 6:35:41 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
The business IS imposing their religion. If they would make the same cake for a het couple,but not a gay one, what do you call that?


Unless the business is dealing in an "essential service" they are within their rights to decline custom for any reason they choose.

Try and get a Halal restaurant to make you "pigs in a blanket" if you want to see another refusal of service on religious grounds.

It doesn't matter why, it is a right not to do business for a reason that makes sense to the businessman.

No, that is not correct.

Pay attention!!!

A service not provided to anyone is not against the law. It's when you pick and choose IN BUSINESS, that you are screwing up.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 216
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 6:42:18 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

You're hurting my head...

Let me put this in bold so you'll hear it...

THE CAR SHE WAS RIDING IN DOESN'T RELIEVE THE COMPANY OF NEGLIGENCE.

The same negligence would have existed no matter where she was putting creamer in the coffee.


The existence of cup holders increases her share of responsibility.
Had she used them the accident wouldn't have happened.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 217
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 6:46:46 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Do y'all read the entire thread or just skip over to what suits you?
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

They are not imposing their religion on the gay couple. The gay couple can get married and continue on with their lives. Their lives, beliefs and morals do not hinge on this bakery making a cake for their homosexual wedding. Do you get to demand a Kosher or Halal butcher shop provide you pork? How about a pizza shop owned by a Muslim not using pork pepperoni

For the love of the stars, pay attention!

The point of LAW is that the bakery is refusing a service based on SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

It's not about a service that isn't available from the business to ANYONE.

The business IS imposing their religion. If they would make the same cake for a het couple,but not a gay one, what do you call that?














A Straight people can't buy gay wedding cakes from them either.
B The law says gay beats a (allegedly) constitutionally protected right, the law is wrong.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 6:48:04 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Dude, you you just excused every bottom that had something gone wrong.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: Are cakes art? - 9/23/2017 7:21:34 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Dude, you you just excused every bottom that had something gone wrong.





your point if you have one?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 220
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