quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Dude, you you just excused every bottom that had something gone wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
The business IS imposing their religion. If they would make the same cake for a het couple,but not a gay one, what do you call that?

Unless the business is dealing in an "essential service" they are within their rights to decline custom for any reason they choose.

Try and get a Halal restaurant to make you "pigs in a blanket" if you want to see another refusal of service on religious grounds.

It doesn't matter why, it is a right not to do business for a reason that makes sense to the businessman.

No, that is not correct.

Pay attention!!!

A service not provided to anyone is not against the law. It's when you pick and choose IN BUSINESS, that you are screwing up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'll bet I could do it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Do y'all read the entire thread or just skip over to what suits you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
They are not imposing their religion on the gay couple. The gay couple can get married and continue on with their lives. Their lives, beliefs and morals do not hinge on this bakery making a cake for their homosexual wedding. Do you get to demand a Kosher or Halal butcher shop provide you pork? How about a pizza shop owned by a Muslim not using pork pepperoni

For the love of the stars, pay attention!
The point of LAW is that the bakery is refusing a service based on SEXUAL ORIENTATION.
It's not about a service that isn't available from the business to ANYONE.
The business IS imposing their religion. If they would make the same cake for a het couple,but not a gay one, what do you call that?

quote:

“Regardless of your viewpoint about same-sex marriage, shouldn’t we all agree that the government shouldn’t force us to speak or act in a way that violates our deepest convictions?” Phillips queried in his prepared statement. “Like the one in Colorado will result in kind-hearted Americans being dragged before state commissions and courts, and punished by the government for peacefully seeking to live and work consistent with their beliefs about marriage? The couple who came to my shop that day 5 years ago are free to hold their beliefs about marriage, and all I ask is that I be allowed the equal opportunity to keep mine.”


[Bold Mine]

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Do y'all read the entire thread or just skip over to what suits you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
They are not imposing their religion on the gay couple. The gay couple can get married and continue on with their lives. Their lives, beliefs and morals do not hinge on this bakery making a cake for their homosexual wedding. Do you get to demand a Kosher or Halal butcher shop provide you pork? How about a pizza shop owned by a Muslim not using pork pepperoni

I've kind of answered this several times. I have no desire to be rude, so I'll try again. This is not a case of a business where the product is not available for everyone. It's about a service being available to some, but denied to others. It's a matter of discrimination.

quote:

No, the bakery is NOT imposing their religion. The gay couple is imposing their belief system on the bakery. The couple could just as easily go to another bakery and get their cake. But, they aren't. They are imposing their beliefs - or attempting to - through the blunt force of government. The bakery not supplying their cake does nothing for the couple's beliefs. The only thing it does (or might do, depending on how much research the couple has already done) is delay the purchase of a wedding cake. There is no requisite belief imposition. The gay couple can continue on in their lives any way they see fit; they are not being forced to do something that is anathema to their beliefs.

The case is years old. I'm pretty sure they aren't waiting for a wedding cake.

As for the rest, I think you might just be looking at the surface. It's a fallacy to believe this says nothing about the couple's beliefs. Does it occur to you that this couple might believe it is inherently wrong to be denied a service based on sexual orientation?

quote:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/politics/masterpiece-cakeshop-owner-says-hes-lost-40-of-business-welcomes-scotus-hearing

quote:

“Regardless of your viewpoint about same-sex marriage, shouldn’t we all agree that the government shouldn’t force us to speak or act in a way that violates our deepest convictions?” Phillips queried in his prepared statement. “Like the one in Colorado will result in kind-hearted Americans being dragged before state commissions and courts, and punished by the government for peacefully seeking to live and work consistent with their beliefs about marriage? The couple who came to my shop that day 5 years ago are free to hold their beliefs about marriage, and all I ask is that I be allowed the equal opportunity to keep mine.”


[Bold Mine]

I don't see it as him keeping his. Even in his own statement, he's making it about his religious beliefs, rather than the 'art' angle.

quote:

He has lost 40% of his business. IMO, , Free Market at work. If enough people are outraged enough that they decide to not frequent his shop and he goes out of business from it? Free Markets at work. Just like if a place decided not to serve (insert discrimination demographic here), there would be an outcry and a call for a boycott. It would either result in the business changing it's policy, the business going out of business for lack of customers, or the business doing fin because they replaced any lost customers with ones choosing to frequent them over their stance.

We do agree on this. What businesses we patronize are our own choices.

quote:

At one point in time, I agree anti-discrimination laws were necessary. With social media and the speed at which information travels now? Don't need them. The Free Market will take care of things.

Can't quite do it.

quote:

Get government to be less intrusive to businesses and let the Market take care of things. Guaranteed there would be bakeries created to cater to gay weddings. Hell, there might even be bakeries opened that makes wedding cakes only for gay weddings.

I'm not sure that's the answer.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Do y'all read the entire thread or just skip over to what suits you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
They are not imposing their religion on the gay couple. The gay couple can get married and continue on with their lives. Their lives, beliefs and morals do not hinge on this bakery making a cake for their homosexual wedding. Do you get to demand a Kosher or Halal butcher shop provide you pork? How about a pizza shop owned by a Muslim not using pork pepperoni

For the love of the stars, pay attention!
The point of LAW is that the bakery is refusing a service based on SEXUAL ORIENTATION.
It's not about a service that isn't available from the business to ANYONE.
The business IS imposing their religion. If they would make the same cake for a het couple,but not a gay one, what do you call that?

No, the bakery is NOT imposing their religion. The gay couple is imposing their belief system on the bakery. The couple could just as easily go to another bakery and get their cake. But, they aren't. They are imposing their beliefs - or attempting to - through the blunt force of government. The bakery not supplying their cake does nothing for the couple's beliefs. The only thing it does (or might do, depending on how much research the couple has already done) is delay the purchase of a wedding cake. There is no requisite belief imposition. The gay couple can continue on in their lives any way they see fit; they are not being forced to do something that is anathema to their beliefs.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/politics/masterpiece-cakeshop-owner-says-hes-lost-40-of-business-welcomes-scotus-hearing

quote:

“Regardless of your viewpoint about same-sex marriage, shouldn’t we all agree that the government shouldn’t force us to speak or act in a way that violates our deepest convictions?” Phillips queried in his prepared statement. “Like the one in Colorado will result in kind-hearted Americans being dragged before state commissions and courts, and punished by the government for peacefully seeking to live and work consistent with their beliefs about marriage? The couple who came to my shop that day 5 years ago are free to hold their beliefs about marriage, and all I ask is that I be allowed the equal opportunity to keep mine.”


[Bold Mine]

He has lost 40% of his business. IMO, Free Market at work. If enough people are outraged enough that they decide to not frequent his shop and he goes out of business from it? Free Markets at work. Just like if a place decided not to serve (insert discrimination demographic here), there would be an outcry and a call for a boycott. It would either result in the business changing it's policy, the business going out of business for lack of customers, or the business doing fin because they replaced any lost customers with ones choosing to frequent them over their stance.

At one point in time, I agree anti-discrimination laws were necessary. With social media and the speed at which information travels now? Don't need them. The Free Market will take care of things.

Get government to be less intrusive to businesses and let the Market take care of things. Guaranteed there would be bakeries created to cater to gay weddings. Hell, there might even be bakeries opened that makes wedding cakes only for gay weddings.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Do y'all read the entire thread or just skip over to what suits you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
They are not imposing their religion on the gay couple. The gay couple can get married and continue on with their lives. Their lives, beliefs and morals do not hinge on this bakery making a cake for their homosexual wedding. Do you get to demand a Kosher or Halal butcher shop provide you pork? How about a pizza shop owned by a Muslim not using pork pepperoni

For the love of the stars, pay attention!
The point of LAW is that the bakery is refusing a service based on SEXUAL ORIENTATION.
It's not about a service that isn't available from the business to ANYONE.
The business IS imposing their religion. If they would make the same cake for a het couple,but not a gay one, what do you call that?

No, the bakery is NOT imposing their religion. The gay couple is imposing their belief system on the bakery. The couple could just as easily go to another bakery and get their cake. But, they aren't. They are imposing their beliefs - or attempting to - through the blunt force of government. The bakery not supplying their cake does nothing for the couple's beliefs. The only thing it does (or might do, depending on how much research the couple has already done) is delay the purchase of a wedding cake. There is no requisite belief imposition. The gay couple can continue on in their lives any way they see fit; they are not being forced to do something that is anathema to their beliefs.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/politics/masterpiece-cakeshop-owner-says-hes-lost-40-of-business-welcomes-scotus-hearing

quote:

“Regardless of your viewpoint about same-sex marriage, shouldn’t we all agree that the government shouldn’t force us to speak or act in a way that violates our deepest convictions?” Phillips queried in his prepared statement. “Like the one in Colorado will result in kind-hearted Americans being dragged before state commissions and courts, and punished by the government for peacefully seeking to live and work consistent with their beliefs about marriage? The couple who came to my shop that day 5 years ago are free to hold their beliefs about marriage, and all I ask is that I be allowed the equal opportunity to keep mine.”


[Bold Mine]

He has lost 40% of his business. IMO, Free Market at work. If enough people are outraged enough that they decide to not frequent his shop and he goes out of business from it? Free Markets at work. Just like if a place decided not to serve (insert discrimination demographic here), there would be an outcry and a call for a boycott. It would either result in the business changing it's policy, the business going out of business for lack of customers, or the business doing fin because they replaced any lost customers with ones choosing to frequent them over their stance.

At one point in time, I agree anti-discrimination laws were necessary. With social media and the speed at which information travels now? Don't need them. The Free Market will take care of things.

Get government to be less intrusive to businesses and let the Market take care of things. Guaranteed there would be bakeries created to cater to gay weddings. Hell, there might even be bakeries opened that makes wedding cakes only for gay weddings.

No. The State of Colorado is imposing community and business standards on the bakery.

Let's be clear. No gay money is behind this case whatsoever.

You have 'Christian fundamentalist' groups financing this case against the State of Colorado. Stop blaming the gay couple. They did not violate any state law by asking for a cake, or expecting to be treated equally, as the law requires.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Gay groups don't need to donate money, the state is doing the bullying for them, an individual
fighting against the state on the other hand needs help.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Gay groups don't need to donate money, the state is doing the bullying for them, an individual
fighting against the state on the other hand needs help.

Unless they're black, in which case they need shooting...

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Do y'all read the entire thread or just skip over to what suits you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
They are not imposing their religion on the gay couple. The gay couple can get married and continue on with their lives. Their lives, beliefs and morals do not hinge on this bakery making a cake for their homosexual wedding. Do you get to demand a Kosher or Halal butcher shop provide you pork? How about a pizza shop owned by a Muslim not using pork pepperoni

I've kind of answered this several times. I have no desire to be rude, so I'll try again. This is not a case of a business where the product is not available for everyone. It's about a service being available to some, but denied to others. It's a matter of discrimination.

quote:

quote:

No, the bakery is NOT imposing their religion. The gay couple is imposing their belief system on the bakery. The couple could just as easily go to another bakery and get their cake. But, they aren't. They are imposing their beliefs - or attempting to - through the blunt force of government. The bakery not supplying their cake does nothing for the couple's beliefs. The only thing it does (or might do, depending on how much research the couple has already done) is delay the purchase of a wedding cake. There is no requisite belief imposition. The gay couple can continue on in their lives any way they see fit; they are not being forced to do something that is anathema to their beliefs.

The case is years old. I'm pretty sure they aren't waiting for a wedding cake.

As for the rest, I think you might just be looking at the surface. It's a fallacy to believe this says nothing about the couple's beliefs. Does it occur to you that this couple might believe it is inherently wrong to be denied a service based on sexual orientation?

quote:

quote:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/politics/masterpiece-cakeshop-owner-says-hes-lost-40-of-business-welcomes-scotus-hearing

quote:

“Regardless of your viewpoint about same-sex marriage, shouldn’t we all agree that the government shouldn’t force us to speak or act in a way that violates our deepest convictions?” Phillips queried in his prepared statement. “Like the one in Colorado will result in kind-hearted Americans being dragged before state commissions and courts, and punished by the government for peacefully seeking to live and work consistent with their beliefs about marriage? The couple who came to my shop that day 5 years ago are free to hold their beliefs about marriage, and all I ask is that I be allowed the equal opportunity to keep mine.”


[Bold Mine]

I don't see it as him keeping his. Even in his own statement, he's making it about his religious beliefs, rather than the 'art' angle.

quote:

quote:

He has lost 40% of his business. IMO, , Free Market at work. If enough people are outraged enough that they decide to not frequent his shop and he goes out of business from it? Free Markets at work. Just like if a place decided not to serve (insert discrimination demographic here), there would be an outcry and a call for a boycott. It would either result in the business changing it's policy, the business going out of business for lack of customers, or the business doing fin because they replaced any lost customers with ones choosing to frequent them over their stance.

We do agree on this. What businesses we patronize are our own choices.

quote:

quote:

At one point in time, I agree anti-discrimination laws were necessary. With social media and the speed at which information travels now? Don't need them. The Free Market will take care of things.

Can't quite do it.

quote:

quote:

Get government to be less intrusive to businesses and let the Market take care of things. Guaranteed there would be bakeries created to cater to gay weddings. Hell, there might even be bakeries opened that makes wedding cakes only for gay weddings.

I'm not sure that's the answer.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
Gays have been subject to community standards all this time. But it's "bullying" if Christians are? Nope.

quote:

If you cannot provide the same products & services to gays, then it is discrimination. If you are in a business where your religious beliefs prohibits you from complying with the law, then you need to find a more suitable business.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Gays have been subject to community standards all this time. But it's "bullying" if Christians are? Nope.

If you cannot provide the same products & services to gays, then it is discrimination. If you are in a business where your religious beliefs prohibits you from complying with the law, then you need to find a more suitable business.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

FR...

It's kind of funny that the same people who think that NFL players don't have to kneel for the US flag think everyone should have to kneel before the rainbow flag.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

FR...

It's kind of funny that the same people who think that NFL players don't have to kneel for the US flag think everyone should have to kneel before the rainbow flag.

what a bunch of bullshit.
should have to kneel before the rainbow flag???where? when?
do you ever have a coherent thought?