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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 6:50:15 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

nnanji, I think youd really like this:

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2017/10/05/nothing-makes-liberals-angrier-than-us-normals-insisting-on-our-rights-n2390586

oh no comrades, townhall!!

https://qz.com/1094160/las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-abused-women-just-like-other-mass-killers-in-the-us/
also
"The most common scenario for a mass shooting is domestic violence, but they end up being a tiny paragraph or two on page 3 of your local newspaper," Webster said. "Estranged husband has the kids for the weekend, brings them back to the estranged wife and murders her and the kids and then will go after other family members and eventually will end up taking is own life."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ritarubin/2017/10/03/las-vegas-massacre-gun-violence/#4186992938af

Control and Fear: What Mass Killings and Domestic Violence Have in Common
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/16/world/americas/control-and-fear-what-mass-killings-and-domestic-violence-have-in-common.html

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/11/domestic-violence-shooting-deaths-women-husbands-boyfriends
Domestic violence and guns: the hidden American crisis ending women's lives
The shooting death of a teacher in San Bernardino, California, by her estranged husband was hardly an outlier – an estimated 50 women a month are shot to death in the US by former or current partners

"normals" and your "rights"??
what tosh


http://www.refinery29.com/2016/04/103875/gun-control-domestic-abuse-womens-rights
No, Domestic Abusers Can't Have Guns, SCOTUS Rules
LILLI PETERSEN
LAST UPDATED JUNE 27, 2016, 12:00 PM

Update: The Supreme Court on Monday delivered a victory to groups working to curb domestic violence, ruling that states can ban people convicted of reckless domestic assaults from future gun ownership. The court ruled 6-2 against two Maine men who argued that they should not be subject to the ban because of the nature of their misdemeanor abuse charges, The Associated Press reports. Ahead, an in-depth look at the issue of domestic violence and gun access.


https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/07/homicides-women/534306/
Nearly Half of All Murdered Women Are Killed by Romantic Partners

of course, then we have this...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-guns-bill-mentally-ill-background-checks-nra-a7604876.html
Donald Trump signs bill allowing mentally ill people to buy guns
The Obama-era rule blocked by Trump would have prevented people with some mental illnesses buying weapons

rights, normals? guns? you live in a bubble of your own making.


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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 6:52:39 AM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
Because like, the people involve in it, think it's okay that this happened.


greta, wtf??

they most seriously do not think its okay.

what they think is, in a fallen world bad things happen, and those bad things cannot ever be eliminated without compromising the liberty that so many people value.



Yes, they would rather have endless mass shootings and be able to amass a private arsenal than have few to no mass shootings and give up their otherwise totally useless toy collection.

I don't believe for a second the RWNJs think the government is coming to get them... and if that was true, they wouldn't be able to do anything about it anyways.
So all we ever hear is 'muh liberty, muh freedom, muh rights' over and over.
There is never any logic or reason involved, it's always appeals to a skewed sense of American tradition, identity, patriotism, paranoia and a drooling sense of entitlement.

The argument isn't and never has been that Americans shouldn't be able to own guns at all-- EVER.
But the second anyone suggests that maybe it isn't necessary to own totally lethal killing devices that serve no other real purpose, it's bitch fits galore.

Thanks to you, America will never be safe, and in fact will continue to grow progressively less safe.
You won-- congratulations.

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Profile   Post #: 422
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 6:55:53 AM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

my freakin' goodness no greta, they do want to do something about it, just not what the left suggests. and that's where the argument always goes, to what the left wants. and if the right doesn't do what the left thinks, they are all complicit or they don't care.

the notion that "there is nothing they can do to prevent this" does not lead to "its okay."




LOL... the right's only strategy to deal with mass shootings has ever been 'just accept this', and occasionally 'blame everything but the guns'.
It's frankly amazing just how obtuse and pathologically selfish you are willing to be so you can hold onto your toys.

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Profile   Post #: 423
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 6:56:45 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
my freakin' goodness no greta, they do want to do something about it, just not what the left suggests. and that's where the argument always goes, to what the left wants. and if the right doesn't do what the left thinks, they are all complicit or they don't care.

the notion that "there is nothing they can do to prevent this" does not lead to "its okay."

So what does the right want to do about this? Leave the Left out of it. I mean, this is a shooter with zero political affiliation. Who shot a bunch of right country music lovers. Hell, worst of all, he is one of them! What I mean is, he LOVES country music. And have attended this specific festival as a Fan in the past.

To me, when there is plenty that can be done about this, and the right refusing to consider any option, OR even coming up with their own solutions, is them saying this is okay.

Because I assure you, when things are really not okay with people, they WILL FIND A SOLUTION and do something about it!


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Profile   Post #: 424
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 7:03:42 AM   
Lucylastic


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Jason Chaffetz says its the price of freedom
shammmity says, its too early to talk about it, but shammity is ignoring the issue, the dead and the other victims and their families by saying its too soon.
I dont expect anything meaningful
A truck load of prayers and "warmest condolences" is useless.


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Profile   Post #: 425
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 7:09:56 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
It's frankly amazing just how obtuse and pathologically selfish you are willing to be so you can hold onto your toys.

To be honest right, IF the left wants to have any hope of negotiating with the Right about improving Gun Laws. Calling them Selfish and Obtuse is precisely what will make them cling on to their guns and not even want to listen or consider any options.

You aren't gonna get co-operation with words like that. The sad part is, I can see in politics, you see left politicians talking like this too.

And if the goal is to make America safer for everybody, I think the tone of the left needs to be more about working together for a mutually happy solution. And more about asking the Right to be more constructive about this problem and be the one to contribute some workable solutions.

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Profile   Post #: 426
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 7:14:38 AM   
Lucylastic


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but the right wont budge either, so lol stale mate and has been for decades.
meanwhile people keep being killed(deprived of their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness). for someone elses guns.


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Profile   Post #: 427
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 7:18:03 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

but the right wont budge either, so lol stale mate and has been for decades.
meanwhile people keep being killed(deprived of their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness). for someone elses guns.



I posted earlier that Republicans are willing to look into banning bump stocks. So all is not lost!

That is one step to preventing this from happening again. Bump Stocks is a good starting point.

I think some Right leaning folks are already conceding that Bump Stocks are not necessary. And does not trespass the amendment.

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 7:28:21 AM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
It's frankly amazing just how obtuse and pathologically selfish you are willing to be so you can hold onto your toys.

To be honest right, IF the left wants to have any hope of negotiating with the Right about improving Gun Laws. Calling them Selfish and Obtuse is precisely what will make them cling on to their guns and not even want to listen or consider any options.

You aren't gonna get co-operation with words like that. The sad part is, I can see in politics, you see left politicians talking like this too.

And if the goal is to make America safer for everybody, I think the tone of the left needs to be more about working together for a mutually happy solution. And more about asking the Right to be more constructive about this problem and be the one to contribute some workable solutions.


Endless gun deaths aren't enough to convince them to improve regulations even a little... but if I stopped calling them names, they would listen?

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 7:35:31 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
Endless gun deaths aren't enough to convince them to improve regulations even a little... but if I stopped calling them names, they would listen?

Because they genuinely do not correlate gun death with a gun problem. They see it as a human problem.

Whereas the Left only sees it as a gun problem.

So the way the Left has been presenting the issue is seriously, also, not in the right format. Like seriously cross lines talking!

And I personally also see it as a gun problem. But I was brought up on cultural differences and we got 4 races here from totally different cultures, and all 4 races can see the same issue from a totally different angle. The difference is also, we embrace our differences and talk about it. I mean, US would call it stereotyping or whatever. For us, we embrace our stereotypes and own it and don't really see it as racism. And we will talk about the differences and point of view, depending on the culture we came from. (Like a simple stereotype about chinese here is that they always got bad breath. One of the biggest contributing factor to this is how much garlic there is in every single dish we eat. We practically eat garlic raw like apples. That does cause bad breathe. But we love dumping humongous amounts of garlic into everything! So I seriously am not even offended about that stereotype. I know it's due to what we eat and we probably gotta brush after every meal.)

So the way I see it is, I think it's not about, "OMFG, it's so fucking obvious that it's the gun problem!"

But it's not obvious to them! That's the problem!


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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 7:56:09 AM   
Lucylastic


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no, the left dont see it as being just a gun problem
its a people problem, its a mental health issue, its an anger issue, its frustration, hate, and mental problems(im talking killers not gun owners)
Guns Only hurt people when another people uses it against another people/animal/critter.


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Profile   Post #: 431
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 8:05:11 AM   
bounty44


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I might be back later with a longer answer greta, maybe in the meantime someone else will chime in with their own version of it.

but before I go, and this has been hinted at and even explicitly said before: if someone wants to kill large groups of people, they will find a way and ultimately, theres nothing that can be done to prevent that.

when you start with that as a premise, its less about guns and more about accepting what its like to live in a free society.

also, and this needs to be said in response to blinker because even though its been said before he seems to have (conveniently?) missed it---some people are indeed killed with guns and its sad thing, however, when guns actually prevent innocents from being killed/raped/robbed to a much greater degree, its very difficult to trust in the solutions of the left.

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Profile   Post #: 432
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 8:08:52 AM   
heavyblinker


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Lucy said it, but it isn't exclusively about guns.
It's about people who shouldn't have guns being able to get the biggest, most powerful guns whenever they want them.
This includes the mentally ill, the frustrated, the angry, the hateful, the racist, the bullied, children, toddlers, etc.

Every time anyone proposes even discussing the issue, the RWNJ news is almost immediately flooded with hysterical shit about liberals wanting to ban all guns, how they will fight to the death anyone who tries to take them away, etc. etc.

All bills are defeated in congress, all proposals met with conspiracies, paranoia and insanity... and any discussion about moderate gun control becomes 'DEATH TO ALL WHO WOULD DEPRIVE ME OF FREEDOM'.

The right is literally incapable of anything except simple black-and-white thinking.
This is why the NRA will always be able to keep the most lethal guns in the hands of the people who will do the most harm.

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Profile   Post #: 433
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 8:12:09 AM   
Lucylastic


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LAS VEGAS SHOOTING RECOVERY WILL COST AT LEAST $600 MILLION

http://www.newsweek.com/las-vegas-mass-shooting-will-cost-least-600-million-675982

The cost of the mass shooting in Las Vegas on Sunday night, the deadliest such incident in modern U.S. history, will be astronomical.

Based on what we currently know (at least 58 killed and more than 500 injured), the shooting will cost at least $600 million, Ted Miller, a researcher with the Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation, tells Newsweek. Miller estimates the average cost per fatal firearm assault for this tragedy will be around $7.8 million, which accounts for factors such as medical care, mental health, work loss, emergency transport, police work, employer costs and quality of life.

This is roughly equivalent to "$2 per gun in the U.S., $2 per American or $6 per household with guns," Miller notes.

Keep Up With This Story And More By Subscribing Now

It's "beyond staggering," he says.

Even so, this is a very conservative, preliminary estimate, says Miller, who's been analyzing the costs of shootings since the 1980s. It's simply too difficult to come up with figures for the total cost at this point, he says, given the death toll could rise and we're still gaining information on the nature of the injuries. People weren't just shot—they were hit by cars or fell and hurt themselves as they fled the scene.

Due to the extreme nature of this incident, Miller also believes the cost for mental health will be well above average.

"Indeed, many, many people who were not physically injured will be seeing a therapist, perhaps haunted by PTSD," Miller says.

Last summer, Miller estimated the shooting at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, which left 49 dead, would cost around $390 million—more than $200 million less than his preliminary estimate for Sunday night's shooting. This goes to show how serious the Las Vegas incident was seen in terms of thhe astonishing number of people affected. Until Sunday night, Orlando was the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history.

The cost of gun violence in the U.S. is perhaps one of the most overlooked aspects of the issue. It's estimated the total annual cost of gun violence is $229 billion, according to a 2015 Mother Jones report to which Miller contributed.

A more recent study, published in the American Journal of Public Health, estimated the average overall annual cost of initial hospitalizations for firearm-related injuries was $734.6 million. This doesn't even begin to account for the total medical costs, but it offers a glimpse at the expense of gun violence.

More than 30,000 people die from gun-related causes in the U.S. every year, and many researchers have argued gun violence should be treated like a public health crisis.

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 8:27:01 AM   
HaveRopeWillBind


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
Because they genuinely do not correlate gun death with a gun problem. They see it as a human problem.

Whereas the Left only sees it as a gun problem.


That's because the right believes in responsibility for one's action and allows that guns generally do not kill unless someone pulls the trigger.
Whereas as the left has developed a culture of, "blame anything but me!" Since the majority of the left are not gun owners they are not affected by gun regulations and see that as a simple solution.
The irony in that is that cars can be used as weapons of mass murder, and also kill tens of thousands every year in accidents, yet no leftist is calling for banning cars because that would affect them personally.
The left also has very little to say about the carnage in Chicago where in 2016 over 750 were murdered by guns of over 3500 shot. The left (and the left leaning media) are so caught up in the concept of diversity that they can't bring themselves to admit that there is a cultural problem in Chicago and many other large US cities that is the real root of the problem and that guns are simply the tool being used. Take away that tool and it will simply be replaced by another until there is a cultural solution.

Also, you mentioned in an earlier post that Paddock had no political affiliations. That may not be the case. There's the possibility of an ISIS connection through his Filipina girlfriend since ISIS is strong in the Philippines. (Which might account for some of the money Paddock transferred there over the years.)
And there is an even stronger possibility of an Antifa connection since Paddock was a Platinum member of Mandalay Bay, where recently the CEO passed flyers to employees promising to match any donations made to Antifa related groups. Platinum members at casinos are normally allowed close contact with casino management, and it's probable that they had a close relationship.
There is also the dual coincidence of the woman in the crowd trying to tell people they were going to be killed 45 min before the shooting started, (I doubt she was psychic) and the fact that Antifa has been forecasting violence in the US to begin on October 1st, and culminate on November 4th. That timing seems just a bit too coincidental.


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Profile   Post #: 435
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 8:37:08 AM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


Endless gun deaths aren't enough to convince them to improve regulations even a little... but if I stopped calling them names, they would listen?


Stupid question:

Have you ever sat down and read the entire federal gun regulation statutes?

We dont need more gun regulations, we need the existing ones enforced, and the databank that the bankground checks use made mandatory for every law enforcement and court agency in the United States.

Of course, the simple fact that the Federal Firearms regulations specifically states, "those with a mental or emotional disorder that could potentially lead to violent behavior cannot legally purchase a firearm."

However, for that information to be on the database used for back ground checks would mean that hospitals, institutions and therapists would have to report patients with those conditions, liberals who scream for more gun control also scream that would be an invasion of privacy.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

your rights?
you only care about your rights
not anyone elses.

The left want everyone to have the same rights.
Not given and taken away by angry old white christians.
you dont know the meaning of the words equal rights.



Really? Lets look at some of the Left's positions on the 2nd amendment.

1) It only applies to flintlock or cap and ball rifles, the founding fathers never meant for it to for anything else.
2) The national guard is the 'regulated militia' even though according to Federal law and the constitution, state militias were answerable to the state first and federal government second and the President of the United States had to ask the state for permission to use the militia, while the national guard is primarily a US military reserve component.
3) the left and liberals frequently forget about the Federal law that actually spells out the definition of militia, and a state militia is a) not subject to Federal call up and b) militia members cannot also be members of the national guard or US reserve units.

Liberals have protested against the 10 commandments at court houses around the country, even though the ten commandments are on the Supreme Court Building.

They have protested high school athletes praying before a game as a team on school system owned athletic fields.

I can go on about the left's attacks on various rights.

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Profile   Post #: 436
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 8:44:57 AM   
Lucylastic


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yes and I can go on about all the victims of gun nuts. and the hypocrisy.

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 8:50:55 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind
Also, you mentioned in an earlier post that Paddock had no political affiliations. That may not be the case. There's the possibility of an ISIS connection through his Filipina girlfriend since ISIS is strong in the Philippines. (Which might account for some of the money Paddock transferred there over the years.)

I am not closing the door on the ISIS connection. But I don't consider that a political affiliation. That him converting to Islam. A religious problem. And because of how private he is as a person and also sane and intelligent. He really knows how to cover his tracks and everything is well thought out of and meticulously planned. It's not inconceivable to me that, that he has his conversion or any communication ISIS very well covered up too. Because he planned to die. He could have erase all his tracks, from his phone and all his technology. He is rich enough to employ somebody to do that for him. Proper swiping.

(Recently UK government is upset with Whatsapp for encrypting their messages, as they cannot snoop on Terrorists messages to each other and are demanding access for their investigations.)

Technology is standing on the side of protecting consumers privacy from the government. Unfortunately, it also allows a safe haven for terrorist to recruit and find members where they cannot be detected. It's a difficult balance.

And Till Date. Nobody asked the GF her religion. I guess it would be politically incorrect to ask.

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Profile   Post #: 438
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 9:02:54 AM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Stupid question:

Have you ever sat down and read the entire federal gun regulation statutes?

We dont need more gun regulations, we need the existing ones enforced, and the databank that the bankground checks use made mandatory for every law enforcement and court agency in the United States.


OK... how are they going to enforce them?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Of course, the simple fact that the Federal Firearms regulations specifically states, "those with a mental or emotional disorder that could potentially lead to violent behavior cannot legally purchase a firearm."

However, for that information to be on the database used for back ground checks would mean that hospitals, institutions and therapists would have to report patients with those conditions, liberals who scream for more gun control also scream that would be an invasion of privacy.


The problem isn't that it's an invasion of privacy (even though it is), but that it would discourage people from seeking psychiatric help.
So the result would be that would-be shooters (who might have improved if they had reached out) would not reach out at all.

Even non-violent people who were mentally ill would be hesitant to seek help if they knew their names were going to be entered into a database somewhere.

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Profile   Post #: 439
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/5/2017 9:07:47 AM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
I can go on about the left's attacks on various rights.


I'm not going to comb the internet or spend hours answering every single case, but usually when someone is whining about 'freedom', it's in reference to an issue where they simply disagree.

The left frames the abortion debate as being about freedom too, but of course, the right refuses to do the same. 'You're ruining the woman's freedom, but oh, what about the unborn child's freedom?' etc. etc.
The same goes for gay marriage-- for the right, it's not about freedom, it's about... I don't even know. Them owning God? Being free to deny someone the freedom to be free?

Talking about freedom especially where it concerns 'rights' is unhelpful in practically every situation.
Nazis frame any attempt to censor their lies as 'an attack on freedom'... and then there's the classic 'the left is supposed to be tolerant, so they should tolerate my intolerance'.
Or 'western society is supposed to value freedom so they should defend my freedom to deprive others of freedom'.

The right course of action in any given situation needs to be rational and fair, not tied to meaningless concerns about 'freedoms'.

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