quote:

Talking about freedom especially where it concerns 'rights' is unhelpful in practically every situation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Nnanji I would understand your position IF gun control would not work.... but it does and has been proven over and over. Do you know there were more gun homicides in St Louis alone last year than in all of the United Kingdom.

So the argument that gun control will not reduce gun related injury and death is bull... What it comes down to is are we willing to sacrifice your pleasure in owning certain type of weapons to reduce mass murders. You don't meed an ar 15 for home defense or hunting... it is only for pleasure... can't you give that up to save lives?

Butch

A very passionate argument. But passion isn't rational. Let's do this, you enter into an agreement with me to vote, your ballot, the way I say for the rest of your life and I'll consider your passionate argument. You give up a right to me and I'll consider giving one up to you.

No, it is totally rational.
'I won't do what's right until you gimme something I want because I'm a spoiled child who only thinks of himself' is irrational.

And yes, that is what you are saying.
What would mumsey say about that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

yes and I can go on about all the victims of gun nuts. and the hypocrisy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackSinMaster

Imagine the planning behind this. Then imagine his motive?

Pay no heed to jlf1961 Donald Trump signs bill allowing mentally ill people to buy guns

Trump, a man, who boasted openly he could shoot anyone on 5th avenue and not lose any voters

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

Lucy said it, but it isn't exclusively about guns.
It's about people who shouldn't have guns being able to get the biggest, most powerful guns whenever they want them.
This includes the mentally ill, the frustrated, the angry, the hateful, the racist, the bullied, children, toddlers, etc.

Every time anyone proposes even discussing the issue, the RWNJ news is almost immediately flooded with hysterical shit about liberals wanting to ban all guns, how they will fight to the death anyone who tries to take them away, etc. etc.

All bills are defeated in congress, all proposals met with conspiracies, paranoia and insanity... and any discussion about moderate gun control becomes 'DEATH TO ALL WHO WOULD DEPRIVE ME OF FREEDOM'.

The right is literally incapable of anything except simple black-and-white thinking.
This is why the NRA will always be able to keep the most lethal guns in the hands of the people who will do the most harm.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

yes and I can go on about all the victims of gun nuts. and the hypocrisy.

'Gun nuts' as in everyone that owns a gun or guns?

Come on, 98% of all legally purchased and owned guns in the United States are not used in mass shootings, murders, or any criminal act whatsoever, so your solution is to punish the millions of Americans who own guns and do nothing stupid or criminal?

You take all the mass shootings in recent years and then take the total of privately owned guns in the us and you get a number that is 1 out of every 205,931 gun owners used their guns for a mass shooting. And that is the total number of mass shootings in the US since 1982 and it does not even come to 1% of American gun owners!

If you look at the number of gun deaths a year, you get 1 out of 6246 of legal gun owners responsible. Again not even 1% of the legal gun owners in the US are responsible, of course in that number you threw out there, does not even figure the number of guns used in those deaths that were stolen, or used by someone that should not, by law have a gun.

Yet every fucking time, its punish all gun owners, hold all them responsible for the actions of not even one percent of the gun owning population.

However, the same bunch is quick to say "you cannot blame all <insert group> for the actions of a small minority."

Or blame the NRA for no new gun regulations.

That is the biggest line of bullshit around. Every time some idiot introduces a bill to further regulate guns, the NRA stance is 'make the present laws enforceable."

In other words, the NRA wants the system of back ground checks to work, so that means that doctors and institutions must, by law, report patients that may be a risk of violence to themselves or others to the authorities, make it mandatory for law enforcement agencies at every level report the very facts that would prevent a person from just jumping state or county lines and buying a gun.

Hell that is too fucking easy. Whats worse it that it makes fucking good sense.

But no, lets punish the people that are not going out and shooting up a concert, or a school.

And then say we support the constitution, or we support the rights of others.

And the occasions when the NRA and gun lobby fought a bill that would make the present laws enforceable it is because some jackass added a ton of regulations that would make gun ownership that much harder for the law abiding gun owner.

You yourself said it a few times, guns in and of themselves do not kill people, it is the people that should not have guns that kill people, yet the only way ANY one can come up with is to further regulate the people that do not kill other people or suggest out right bans.

But god forbid any of them to look over the laws and see the fucking real problem that every one of those liberal lawmakers wants to ignore, out of the idea that gun owners normally do not support the liberal agenda, so lets fuck em with barbed wire.

And until the dickheaded shit for brains folks in DC figure out why 2500 pages of existing gun regulations are not working, absolutely nothing is going to change.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

while I remind everyone that the left continues to not be able to accurately express the actual positions of those on the other side, hang on, im looking for the hysterical laughter smiley...

calling the left comrades is if course "accurately expressing any positions of those on the other side".
You hypocritical old fool

ive explained this before. calling the left "comrades" is a tongue in cheek way of saying youre all of a collectivist stripe. communist, socialist, democratic socialist, nanny state, pro-government, etc.

see irony.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
A gun ban wouldn't have stopped 9/11, Timothy McVeigh, or the Boston Marathon bombing. People that are hell-bent on doing evil will always find a way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
If you look at the number of gun deaths a year, you get 1 out of 6246 of legal gun owners responsible. Again not even 1% of the legal gun owners in the US are responsible, of course in that number you threw out there, does not even figure the number of guns used in those deaths that were stolen, or used by someone that should not, by law have a gun.

Yet every fucking time, its punish all gun owners, hold all them responsible for the actions of not even one percent of the gun owning population.

However, the same bunch is quick to say "you cannot blame all <insert group> for the actions of a small minority."

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
If you look at the number of gun deaths a year, you get 1 out of 6246 of legal gun owners responsible. Again not even 1% of the legal gun owners in the US are responsible, of course in that number you threw out there, does not even figure the number of guns used in those deaths that were stolen, or used by someone that should not, by law have a gun.

Yet every fucking time, its punish all gun owners, hold all them responsible for the actions of not even one percent of the gun owning population.

However, the same bunch is quick to say "you cannot blame all <insert group> for the actions of a small minority."

I think maybe the problem is that 'liberals' can't get into the headspace where owning a gun somehow defines you as a person the same as race, culture or religion does.

You are so persecuted because someone wants to take away your guns (which you don't need, no matter how much you want to believe you do), and yet punishing people for being mentally ill is a good idea.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
A gun ban wouldn't have stopped 9/11, Timothy McVeigh, or the Boston Marathon bombing. People that are hell-bent on doing evil will always find a way.

It might have stopped this twat in Vegas, though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
A gun ban wouldn't have stopped 9/11, Timothy McVeigh, or the Boston Marathon bombing. People that are hell-bent on doing evil will always find a way.

It might have stopped this twat in Vegas, though.

Though I've not seen a hint that a 'good man with a gun' could have stopped him. What next? Open air gigs, now surrounded by armed guards, their high-power, telescopic-sight-equipped rifles trained on the windows of all the tower blocks nearby?

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

Yeah, the good news is a total gun ban has never been seriously proposed.
But I was responding to the 'punish all gun owners' line.

I guess all gun owners own assault weapons, because apparently banning them is going to punish them all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
The Second Amendment, as ratified by the States:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

That's all it says. Right to bear arms! It doesn't say ANY arms. And it doesn't say you can't put a maximum limit.

People will still be able to bear arms. Just selective ones. I know the fact that there are already some type of weapons that are considered illegal, so this amendment can be worked around to some kind of realistic compromise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

Yeah, the good news is a total gun ban has never been seriously proposed.
But I was responding to the 'punish all gun owners' line.

I guess all gun owners own assault weapons, because apparently banning them is going to punish them all.

I thought you couldn't own an assault weapon in most states? hence all of the talk about how AR-15s and Garands aren't really assault rifles because they won't fire on full auto without serious modification.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
The Second Amendment, as ratified by the States:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

That's all it says. Right to bear arms! It doesn't say ANY arms. And it doesn't say you can't put a maximum limit.

People will still be able to bear arms. Just selective ones. I know the fact that there are already some type of weapons that are considered illegal, so this amendment can be worked around to some kind of realistic compromise.

THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

Never mind that you completely ignored the rest of my post, explaining the Second Amendment. The right to bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

No other Constitutional Amendment is worded so strongly. None of them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
A gun ban wouldn't have stopped 9/11, Timothy McVeigh, or the Boston Marathon bombing. People that are hell-bent on doing evil will always find a way.

It might have stopped this twat in Vegas, though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
A gun ban wouldn't have stopped 9/11, Timothy McVeigh, or the Boston Marathon bombing. People that are hell-bent on doing evil will always find a way.

It might have stopped this twat in Vegas, though.

You think so? He had ammonium nitrate at his house, and bombs aren't difficult to make. He could have easily thrown sticks of dynamite or small bombs out of his window, and probably had a higher body count.